<p>I heard from someone that Yale only gives grad students access to their famous music program. Does anyone know anything about this? What other Ivies/great liberal arts colleges have awesome music programs (I don't want a conservatory unless it's connected to a university/college). Thanks.</p>
<p>What you heard is true. When we accompanied our daughter on a visit to Yale last year, the administrator in the music school with whom we spoke was very friendly, but she made it crystal clear that the opportunities were for graduate students, not undergraduates. In vocal music, undergraduates for the most part (there are rare exceptions) do not even have the opportunity to take private voice lessons with members of the faculty. Instead they are offered instruction only with graduate students. We know of one excellent undergraduate vocalist who has to travel to New York to get voice lessons with an experienced professional instructor. On a separate visit, my daughter found that the undergraduate choral director at Yale was extremely cold and unfriendly, in contrast to the warm welcoming reception she received from choral directors at other schools (e.g. Stanford, Harvard, Brown, Princeton, Wash U). Also, the music department people we spoke with at Penn were very discouraging in stating that their department is not at all performance oriented.</p>
<p>So the majority of the ivies could give me a good music education?</p>
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What other Ivies/great liberal arts colleges have awesome music programs (I don't want a conservatory unless it's connected to a university/college)
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<p>Well... Most famous music schools are conservatory types, like Juliard, NE Conservatory, Manhattan Music School.</p>
<p>Only non-sconservatory ??? hmm....i can think of is JHU- As you know, JHU and Peabody is now merged into JHU. NYU has also pretty well-known music dept.</p>
<p>Prestige-wise, no ther school can beat Juliard - they are #1. ;)</p>
<p>Julliard & Columbia have a joint program
Peabody & JHU have a joint program
Eastman & U Rochester have a joint program
Oberlin Conservatory & Oberlin have doubling options
New England Conservatory & Harvard has some kind of connection, maybe not as strong as the above
Manhattan (or was it Mannes?) has a connection with Barnard (if you're female)</p>
<p>Hmm, FarmDad, my D may be the "rare exception". She had a very nice visit with one of the music faculty who had directed her in a summer program choir and sent him a CD of selections when she applied. She plans to double concentrate in vocal music performance and a science in the fall at Yale. And she's strongly considering the combined BA/MM program at Yale. He was very encouraging about her ability to continue her vocal study with one of the performance faculty and there are many many excellent choral groups at Yale. My D's best friend is a music major at Yale and is having the time of his life.</p>
<p>We do have some insight into the combined Harvard/NEC program. So far, there has been only ONE student accepted into the program. The student must be independently accepted both to Harvard and to the New England Conservatory...the problem has been getting into the NEC. Harvard has NO performance faculty and you cannot concentrate in performance at all. The music majors must major in theory, composition or ethnomusicology. Same thing at Princeton and Brown (no performance major or minor). Columbia has a performance concentration AND a joint BA/MM program with Julliard which has been in existence far longer than the Harvard/NEC program with many enrollees. The rules for admission are the same as for Harvard: the student must be accepted to both Columbia and to Julliard independently. At Harvard, Columbia, and Yale, students may apply any time from before the freshman year to the end of the sophomore year. I don't know anything about the performance opportunities at Dartmouth or Cornell. Penn has increased the performance opportunities over the past few years. I know one young man who double majored in English and music (again no performance major), but arranged his own private lessons with a cellist from another institution.</p>
<p>OP, my advice for you is: e-mail, call, or visit the faculty of the School of Music in the area you specifically want to study. Don't rely on info from these boards. Do your own homework to find out the best place for you. Good luck!</p>
<p>Other fantastic liberal arts/music schools are:</p>
<p>Oberlin (combined BA/BM with both conservatory and college in 5 years)
Lawrence University (in Wisconsin...same type program as Oberlin)
Rice University in Houston (excellent school of music and LAC)
St. Olaf's (Minnesota)
JHU/Peabody
Rochester/Eastman (larger school)</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>fhimas and Farmdad, I'm surprised you got that reception. As quiltguru says, Yale College has awesome offerings for muscians of all levels. I, and many of my friends, chose Yale because we could benefit from the outstanding faculty at the School of Music while getting a liberal arts education.</p>
<p>The way things are divided up administratively makes things confusing for an outsider. The Department of Music is in the Faculty of Arts and Science whereas the School of Music is a professional school. The School of Music is has an admissions process similar to that at any conservatory like Julliard or NEC. The process is distinct from Yale College (i.e. undergraduate) or Yale graduate school admissions. The School of Music get students across the age spectrum -- everyone from the child prodigy to people who already have college degrees. You cannot be an undergraduate at Yale and be in the School of Music at the same time. That means for example that Yale undergraduates cannot play in the Yale Philharmonic (the school of music orchestra). </p>
<p>Students who are admitted to Yale College have access to all programs in the Department of Music. This means a full array of performance (private lessons, chamber, voice, etc.), theory, and history classes. The performances classes are taught by School of Music faculty; the theory and history class are taught by faculty in the Department of Music (i.e. the academic side of music). Anyone can get private lessons at Yale whether you already have a degree at Julliard or you are starting an instrument for the first time. Depending on you level, lessons are either free or heavily subsidized. Who you get depends on your talent. If you are an excellent musician you will be able to study with School of Music faculty like Claude Frankel, Elizabeth Parisot, Jesse Levin, Ole Akahoshi, Syoko Aki, etc. Most School of Music faculty have several undergraduates each working with them. Many of these students end up entering the 5 year B.A/M.M. program. In your 5th year, you lose your Yale College status and become a full time School of Music student -- you move out of the residential colleges, you play in the Yale phiharmonic, etc. Less talented undergraduates typically get paired up the School of Music students. You will not be able to find out who you can study with until you arrive at Yale (auditions are held typically the first week of classes). I could find something negative to say about most departments at Yale, but I actually never had a complaint about the music offerings. </p>
<p>Hope this helps and best of luck to all.</p>
<p>This has been extremely helpful. quiltguru, I will of course take your advice and do my own homework. Thank you so much - hopefully these comments will be able to help others concerned about the music programs at the ivies (and Yale) in the future.</p>
<p>Princeton has a certificate in musical performance, which is Princeton's version of a minor: <a href="http://www.music.princeton.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.music.princeton.edu/</a>
I have heard, but cannot confirm directly, that the Juilliard/Columbia joint degree program is extraordinarily challenging and most students who enter the joint degree program eventually end up dropping out of the program and getting their degree from one institution or the other.
Northwestern has a five year program where you receive two BAs: one in music and one in the liberal arts.</p>
<p>P.S. Yale enrolls each year a number exceptionally gifted undergraduates who could have gone to Juilliard but chose a liberal arts education. The same can be said of Harvard and Princeton.</p>
<p>la<em>vie</em>est_belle, thank you so much for your well-written clarification!</p>