<p>Othermusicdad, that was really a terrific summary--and definitely triggered some questions to ask the schools my son is interested in. Thank you!</p>
<p>OMD, we never looked at any west coast schools, simply because they were too far away. S would have been delighted to look at USC Thornton, for one, but we drew the line at Chicago/Ann Arbor, since we still could ostensibly drive to either in a day.</p>
<p>For us, as much as name recognition or teacher preference, the caliber of overall musicianship was of paramount importance to my son. A lot of schools that have music programs or schools of music, and many with BM degrees, simply did not have the level of musician he wanted to play with. We found out a lot by listening to Mp3 files available on school websites, and some schools were eliminated right from that.</p>
<p>There are so many different variables that make a certain school or program right for different kids, and I agree that it is best to have eyes wide open. On the other hand, the country is huge and full of so many schools, that there have to be some limiting factors, or everyone goes crazy. Geography, alone, can be one very good limiting factor.</p>
<p>Conservatories only or facilities, etc. at LAC's where my S is a music major?</p>
<p>Mythmom - I think you're asking if your S's experience would interest anyone on this thread? Absolutely!</p>
<p>binx, I'm glad you figured it out. I'm sitting here scratching my head.</p>
<p>Allmusic,</p>
<p>You're right - it is a big country. I certainly understand the need to limit the search. My D limited her search to schools in the west, so we may have missed out on that perfect program back east. I, however, do think she's found a great home. Time will tell. </p>
<p>When we made the original profs/schools list with our violist friend, he helped us weed out some of the schools with potentially good profs but weaker overall programs. Again, you are absolutely right - the caliber of the other musicians and ensembles is extremely important.</p>
<p>Fortunately, we were able to visit most real candidates on her list. Based on our experience, I strongly recommend visiting when school is actually in session. </p>
<p>At several of the schools, this enabled us, rather my D, to listen to a chamber group, the university symphony or even sit in on a few classes. This certainly helped her measure the caliber of the program. At one of the schools, she had the opportunity to speak with a DMA viola candidate about a whole range of things.</p>
<p>I can also chip in a bit of info on Peabody, along with a statement about conservatories vs. LACs/universities that a student there articulated for us...</p>
<p>The studio teachers at Peabody have an unwritten but adhered-to policy to meet with prospective students and give them a sample lesson. We learned at orientation that this is not a school-imposed requirement but a service they've decided as a group to offer. It's a very valuable experience that gives applicants so much information. Many schools offer this, and we took advantage of it at Peabody and all the schools my D applied to.</p>
<p>When we toured Peabody my D's junior year of high school, we were absolute greenhorns regarding the BA/BM distinction and the other differences between a conservatory and a university or LAC-based music program. Our student tour guide said something that stuck with us: "If you come here, you'll be hanging around with musicians all the time. On the other hand, if you come here, you'll be hanging around with musicians all the time." Here's what she meant:</p>
<p>At a conservatory, you're surrounded by music all the time. You hear it, you think it and everyone around you is immersed in it. Your dormmates understand what it means to rehearse and how the time you spend learning music is allocated differently than time spent studying, for example, history. Most of your time is spent DOING it, not STUDYING for it.</p>
<p>At a university of LAC as a music major, you aren't as immersed in music. Your dorm will have kids who are music majors, chemistry majors...all sorts of kids. They're writing papers, doing lab write-ups, etc. You can step away from music and hang with them when you need to or want to. The girl majoring in chemistry won't be having the same learning experience that you will, so you can sort of disconnect when you interact with her.</p>
<p>Neither of these models is the right one or the wrong one. They're just different from each other. There are upsides and downsides of being either always surrounded with music or being able to pull back from it. </p>
<p>We really appreciated this insight from a student who understood it on a personal level. It was something my D thought a lot about during the application and audition process.</p>
<p>Just adding these two links to a couple of classics to aid the neophyte. </p>
<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/458455-how-determine-your-child-s-ability.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/458455-how-determine-your-child-s-ability.html</a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-family-s-experience.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-family-s-experience.html</a></p>
<p>DD looked at a number of schools for vocal performance. 2 that were at the top of her list based on scholarships and teachers:</p>
<p>Westminster Choir College at Rider. This is a self contained campus separated from the main campus. We never visited the main campus. DD was impressed with the instruction and the students there. She took a sample lesson and sat in on another lesson and an ensemble rehearsal. Everyone was very friendly and accommodating. She liked the variety of vocal experience available and the opportunity to minor with musical theater. There are a lot of undergraduate opportunities. She did not like the practice rooms in the dorm basements that were not particularly sound proofed. She did like the proximity to Princeton and students she talked to said that there were opportunities for interaction there. It is also an easy ride into NY City for shows. It is a small campus and she eventually decided she wanted something larger. We also visited in winter and it was kind of grey. </p>
<p>Rice University. Rice is a beautiful university. DD fell in love with the residential college system and the look and feel of the campus. She likes socializing with other than music students and participating in other activities. She likes being in classes other than music with students who care about the subject and make the class interesting. All classes are small. Shepherd Music School at Rice is housed in a beautiful facility. Smallish program with graduate students integrated in program. Only about 35 total vocal students but they intend to grow some I believe. . DD loved the teacher and studio. Mix of grad and undergrad in the studio help each other and feels like a family. There is flexibility in enabling performance opportunities and attention to individual students. They got together last year and did a recital across 2 studios with the freshmen girls, who are all friends. She does not like the mandatory Chorale that is open enrollment, including community members. She preferred ensembles with music majors. But they do perform great works so it comes out OK in the end. JR year they transition to opera theater so it will change. There is an opportunity to switch to BA in music after one year if performance does not suit. </p>
<p>DD also visited, auditioned at and was accepted at NYU Steinhart, Temple, Peabody and UCLA. Don't have much to add about Peabody. For her it was too small. She liked being in NY for NYU. I did not get much feedback from her about the rest. She did not like the neighborhood for Temple and had a bad experience with another of the auditoners there so she did not have a good impression. I could not get much more out of her. UCLA is a different kind of program. It is a BA and they use a team teaching approach instead of a dedicated studio. Not completely sure how it works though. The campus was large and beautiful. There is a bus that takes the students down to the beach a which she liked. But in the end it was too far away. They are putting a lot into their program so it might bear watching to see how they change it if at all.</p>
<p>Hello again. I thought I'd mentioned one more thing about audition day that seems important. </p>
<p>My D's candidate schools were limited to the western US mainly for logistics reasons and her desire to be close to home. Again, we visited most of the schools and professors in advance, but each audition day was a bit different.</p>
<p>She started preparing her audition pieces well in advance. For viola, it appeared there were some fairly standard pieces from which to choose - movements from Hoffmeister, Walton, Teleman, Stamitz, Hummel. Most places also required a Bach cello suite transcribed for viola. (Heck, I notice even Julliard lists these pieces as audition candidates, so we must have been on to something.) Several of the schools also required a pre-screening CD/DVD. Most schools also required that live audition pieces be played from memory. Regardless of whether or not memorization was stipulated, most kids seemed to go the memorized route.</p>
<p>The point of this post is not to provide a list of viola audition options, but to highlight something that did make audition day "interesting" in some cases - accompanists. Some schools didn't require an accompanist. Some schools required that a least one piece be played with an accompanist. </p>
<p>At two of the more local schools, we brought our own, which meant spending some money, but my D got to practice with the accompanist well before hand. At another school, accompanists were provided by the school and my D had about ten minutes with the accompanist before going into the audition room. This made my nervous violist even more nervous. </p>
<p>In the end, she decided that if the school didn't require an accompanist, she would play the longer candenzas from her selected pieces. She felt it gave her better control of the audition. If she had a choice between accompanist and no accompanist, she went without one and played the cadenzas.</p>
<p>To those parents whose children have never been to a college audition and perhaps this isn't true everywhere - it was were we went - your child will never get through his/her entire prepared piece(s). The audition committee will typically stop him/her right in the middle of the piece and ask him/her to play something else. We learned this over time and realized it was important to put a best foot forward.</p>
<p>In my D's piece, her viola teacher told her the cadenza best showed both her musicality and technical ability, so when she had the opportunity she went with that first. At one audition, she was playing the movement from the beginning (as requested) with the accompanist. They stopped her after a minute or so and asked to her skip forward to the cadenza.</p>
<p>Finally, I only know how my D's auditons went, but it may be that most disciplines have a standard piece they ask everyone to play. For viola it seems to be a specific Bach suite. Maybe they are trying to compare apples to apples. Perhaps another contributor has better insight.</p>
<p>othermusicdad, Bravo! This is a tremendous list. Between it and bassdad 's story, you provide such advice and reassurance to newbies that things will work out for the best for our musical children.</p>
<p>I'd like to add a few items related to jazz studies.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If your child is interested in pursuing a degree in jazz, start composing your list of schools very early, freshman/sophomore year even.</p></li>
<li><p>If schools you are interested in offer summer jazz programs, enroll your son or daughter. Attending such a program will give them a real feel for the campus environment and facilities. They will get to know faculty/upper level student counselors, live in the dorm, eat in the cafeteria. They will be able to use the performance and practice facilities, lockers and such. Just as a sample lesson might give information, participating in a summer camp will allow students to feel familiar with the environment/personnel when audition time comes. (If you are considering many schools, it might take 2 summers to fit in a number of camps).</p></li>
<li><p>Try to visit a jazz ensemble class, both large & small, at the school to see how they are conducted.</p></li>
<li><p>Look for application/audition procedures that go beyond the norm to try to get to know the candidate. While this is important advice for all prospective students, improvisational abilities in jazz are sometimes harder to determine from a brief audition where a student is playing with a reccording or with unfamiliar musicians than if there are several means of evaluating the candidates. Is a classical audition required as well?</p></li>
<li><p>Know whether your child is comfortable with studying both classical and jazz. Some programs require it, others don't.</p></li>
<li><p>Look at other musical requirements for jazz performers. What kind of piano proficiency is required of all students? Jazz saxophonists are usually required to double on flute and clarinet as well. Some programs require basic proficiency on drums & bass (if that is not your specialty) before graduation. This is something your child can get started on ahead of time.</p></li>
<li><p>Look at performance opportunities. How many & what kind of jazz ensemble performance opportunities are there? Are they required? Is there much/stiff competition from non-jazz musicians for placing? Are there opportunities for off-campus performances (this can be checked on-line in a lot of cities for the kinds of performances that happen around town)? If you visit the school, attending an off-campus performance and talking to the musicians can be helpful.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>My S applied to 1 university/3 conservatories, 2 of which required pre-screening CDs. He was invited for 3 auditions, accepted at all 3 and is attending his 1st choice conservatory. His audition experiences were quite varied. The first was a 15-min. interview/audition in front of 2 faculty members where he played a classical piece, 2 jazz pieces to a play-along CD, & sight read. #2 was a 15-min. audition (no specifications) to a play-along CD & some ear training with two unidentified individuals plus a 15 min. interview with someone in admissions. #3 involved a 15-min. classical audition with ear training in front of 2 faculty members, a 15-min. jazz audition with a live rhythm section (in front of 3 faculty), and a 1-hr. jam session with other auditionees (in front of 5 faculty, a total of 7 different individuals). We learned about all these audition structures from the school's web sites, but we far prefered the thoroughness of #3 where we felt that our S really got to show himself to his best advantage and then they could make an informed decision. </p>
<p>We dropped S2 off a week ago. He's already hooked up with 3 other students (his freshman roommate & 2 sophomores) and they've been practicing together. </p>
<p>What an adventure! Thanks to all of you for your insights and advice.</p>
<p>Tango14, thank you SO much for giving some jazz advice. While some of the music school/audition info is universal, its hard sometimes to find jazz specific information, particularly because most schools offering jazz degrees require a pre-audition screening CD--and they all have different criteria. We just finished recording my son's pre-audition tape that has 7 songs that fit all the schools pre-audition criteria, so we'll choose the songs from those 7 that fit each one. It seemed a monumental task, but it's a hurdle we're over now--well, almost over. He has one more to go, which is accompanying an MP3 that one school requires. </p>
<p>Anyone else who wants to contribute jazz info would be greatly appreciated!</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>At a university of LAC as a music major, you aren't as immersed in music.>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Depends on the program. DS went to a large university with a conservatory type music program. He spent all of his time in the fine arts building, practice rooms, and with the music students with whom he studied. He didn't have the time (nor the interest) in meeting folks who were studying other disciplines at his university. He lived with music majors all four years, and even his job was with music majors. He even was able to take some of his university "core" requirements (and there were not very many...plus he placed out of some with AP scores) as music courses. </p>
<p>I'm sure there are some music performance programs in universities where the students do not do music 24/7...but to be honest, I can't think of any. The reality is that if you are a serious musician...you WILL be doing your music 24/7 regardless of the type of college in which you are enrolled.</p>
<p>SJTH, ah those pre-screening CDs. We went through a nightmare with that one. I began pestering S to start recording months before he did. I asked him why he didn't start recording things whenever he had the opportunity to play with someone (I had mastered recording all his performances, sometimes to his consternation when I set up my laptop in front of the band at a gig). That way he would have things to choose from and not be scurrying at the last minute. </p>
<p>Well, he started with a month left and didn't want me involved in the recording. He had some musicians to play with but not the one's he had played with for years. He ended up having to record one selection with his teacher accompanying him on piano rather than with a rhythm section.</p>
<p>My advice is to start recording at least 6 months prior to audition time and to plan to do a "recordable" version of one or two pieces at each gig or opportunity. That way, you'll have a repertoire of pieces to select from.</p>
<p>What tango said about checking the local music scene is great advice. Jazz students usually want the opportunity to play out in places. I checked the websites of cities in which the schools were located, scouring the night life pages for clubs and actually reading their calendars to see if local jazz students got to play. Some places even have standing nights for the students of local schools. You can see if the faculty are playing at local clubs, and that seemed like a good thing to me, too. I know my son has been trying to see faculty from his college since around the time he got accepted. Watching jazz musicians improvise is important education!</p>
<p>We're lucky to have a vibrant jazz scene here in Portland (OR) that encourages student jamming prior to 9 pm (when liquor laws require under age people to leave) Unfortunately, because he's looking at schools in the midwest and east, we won't have the chance to see teacher/mentors prior to his auditions (at least) and enrollment somewhere (more likely). You all are so fortunate to have that chance!</p>
<p>sjth --</p>
<p>i would encourage you to try to set up sample lessons at the time he goes for auditions - we found several faculty were very amenable. It helped him to select his teacher and it also calmed him for the auditions as they tend to want to encourage and not over-criticize at that sensitive moment. worked very well for my son.</p>
<p>Stringfollies--thank you! I had no idea professors would do this at audition time--I guess I just assumed they'd think it a conflict or something. We will definitely be on top of that!</p>
<p>At the schools my son applied to in jazz, not only were the teachers not available for lessons, only one was even present at his auditions. He had had a lesson with this teacher before, and it definitely made him feel comfortable to know the teacher (they had a two+ hour lesson in his home, about a year earlier). I really recommend, if at all possible, visiting schools/having lessons/sitting in on ensembles/jamming with kids BEFORE the actual audition. My son dropped four schools from his initial list after visiting them, and was glad not to have prepared an audition for schools he didn't want to go to anyway. These are schools that suit/fit other students really well, so it goes to show how personal these decisions are, and the value and importance of visits.</p>
<p>For his classical auditions, his teacher felt strongly that having lessons with teachers at the same time as auditions might compromise the audition. She didn't want new technique or ideas introduced right beforehand. Again, that might depend on the instrument, and I don't think it would have been an issue for jazz, at all, had the teachers even been available.</p>
<p>At all of his auditions, there were a lot of adjudicators. He had nine people from the department at one conservatory, five at another. He got to play most of his repertoire (he played probably a half hour) at the classical auditions. At the jazz auditions, he had to play with other college students everywhere; some required a prepared list of tunes, while others asked him to play along with tunes they provided. At one he had to do rudiments on the snare; at another he had to play a melody using no sticks. At one audition, students were required to audition with other potential students, which my son did not like at all. All had several jazz faculty members adjudicating; a couple videotaped the audition. The jazz auditions were typically 15 or 20 minutes. At all auditions but one, there was some sort of theory placement test.</p>
<p>For all of his auditions, except one, he had to send in pre-screening CDs, which he didn't do until November. I do not recommend waiting this long, as it was stressful getting them done with his busy life, but he had already done DVDs for Grammy and NFAA in October. It was hard to find the time to do so much recording. Two conservatories scheduled their auditions on the same day for his instrument, so that required a bit more juggling. Some schools did not let us know the day or time of his audition until about two weeks before we were expected to be there, which makes scheduling travel a little bit hairy. For one, I was sure he would be invited to the audition (lessons in advance had given us that impression), so got flights anyway. This was obviously risky, but felt that we couldn't wait on flights and hotels until so close to the audition, for cost alone.</p>
<p>Great advice from everyone so far! Hope my contribution helps!</p>
<p>Thanks, Allmusic, as usual. Of course re-visiting the schools to take a lesson, knowing we'll be buying plane tickets for auditions (at least we hope so) wouldn't be financially possible, sigh. I can't even tell you how glad we are to have the prescreening tapes done now. He played so much this summer, was on fire after the Eastman camp, and performed well. I think if we had waited any longer, the pressures of senior year, as well as varsity soccer, would only dilute the quality of his playing. Now if we could just get him writing some essays.... </p>
<p>I can't reiterate enough how valuable the experience in this forum is to we novices. If you had told me 11 years ago my son would be "trying out" for something, I would have bet a million dollars it would be a soccer team, not a jazz program!!! Thanks again to all.</p>