Music Schools that Embrace Contemporary Musicians...Suggestions Requested

violadad · July 28, 2009, 12:28pm

Your son is like many here, with a foot in a couple of camps. A number of students at this age (and older) are multi-talented musically, across disciplines (voice/instrument) (performance/composition), among instruments, or torn between music and academics. Even those that are single purpose driven may well switch gears in undergrad or beyond. You may find similarities in your questions among jazz students, who are often at loggerheads in defining “where to look?”.

While most of the backgrounds here lie in a classically based experience, it can become difficult to “pigeon-hole” a student into a discipline, or genre, making school selection far more complicated within an already angst filled process.

The primary criteria for instrument performance tends to be the private instructor, plus the student’s competitiveness within a specific audition pool. Institutional parameters dictate the weight of audition versus academics (plenty of general and school specific info in past threads), but academically his stats seem competitive for all but the most academically selective programs (like Northwestern, Rice).

For composition studies, it is important to try and assess the styles of a department or specific comp faculty, and see if they mesh with where the student wants to head musically. A classically focused comp department is probably not going to work for a student wanting to explore cutting edge “new” popular music, but there are places that are not narrowly focused, but encourage and allow exploration.

The point -Allmusic- makes about a number of contemporary/popular composers having classical training is well grounded. The similar thread referenced by compmom is here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/749881-best-liberal-arts-college-music-program-composition.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/749881-best-liberal-arts-college-music-program-composition.html</a> There are also references to some specific schools that may be worth investigating.

Some additional background info that may be useful in understanding the process, addressing skill levels can be found here:

Posters with related dilemmas would include -Allmusic-, mythmom, stringkeymom, Fiddlemom, SpiritManager to name but a few. Search for posts by username, as a number of questions and points of info addressed by each may well be applicable to your search.

You’ve been given a number of school names so far. I’d advise looking through each, and begin to get a feel for the different types of programs and structures, as well as the audition requirements (plus portfolio requirements for comp studies). Some may work, some may not, but you will begin to see the breadth and scope of what’s available out there. It will enable you to begin to narrow your focus, and begin to develop more targeted questions as to whether or not a program “fits”.

Bear in mind that he may need (or want) to refocus a bit on classical rep prep for a number of institutions. The description of his current piano teacher seems to indicate that they may well be able to get him fine tuned; he/she appears of like mind insofar as keeping/exploring high level interest in students. If you question the relationship, there are a number of threads and experiences on switching teachers for audition prep, or to better chances in an audition based process should you feel the need to investigate.

Don’t discount asking contacts you’ve developed locally through his past experiences to provide some input and direction. Prior instructors, faculty at summer programs, peer parents and fellow students. Those who know and appreciate your son’s talent are often good sources of advice and direction.

What I offer are suggestions, a template. It is not dogma. Use what you can, but seek other sources of info. It’s a tough and daunting process. There are many here with valuable insights and program specific experience.

I’m just the librarian.

An aside: my post #13 referenced a contemporary music program at Shenandoah. It is not a program that meets the OP’s criteria. It is a vocal pedagogy program geared to commercial/popular training techniques. A link is here for those interested: <a href=“http://www.su.edu/conservatory/431F3F1238394F69AF06B90B9973C0A0.asp[/url]”>http://www.su.edu/conservatory/431F3F1238394F69AF06B90B9973C0A0.asp</a>

Hang on tightly. It’s a bumpy ride.

raddad · July 28, 2009, 2:43pm

I agree that our S’s sound similar in their interests. My S had a similar experience of feeling like the odd duck at a composing camp he went to for 3 years. He wrote chords and beautiful melodies that I could appreciate, but the more valued pieces by the instructors seemed to be unique unusual compositions that I probably am not musical enough to appreciate. Still he learned things in the camp, but probably enjoyed the socializing as much as learned things that fit him.

I think the questions that are in your and your son’s brain are “How good are we?”, “Is this what I want to pursue as a degree and potentially a career?” and “Where”? BTW, the hardest one is the first one, particularly where we live. Best in our small town doesn’t mean much when you look at top schools and all of the talent out there.

The following are things that my S did that I think helped him reach the point of taking the first step toward a popular music degree.

Perform your own compositions publicly whenever you can. There are often benefits, church opporutnities, school recognition opportunities, weddings, etc that are looking for performers. S also organized concerts for him, his school, his friends and while the crowds were usually only 100-300 they were enough of an audience that they kids enjoyed performing and they were performing their music. (Parent help opportunity, be a roadie, marketing help or whatever, make it easier for them to do)

Write music. A lot. S probably wrote 200 songs in HS many silly for his own entertainment, but some of those morphed into beautiful or entertaining mainstream tunes. I have 25 on my itunes that I listen to all the time. My S philosophy seemed to be, the more you do, the more you learn, so don’t write 1 masterpiece a month, write 2 songs and record 1 of them each week. This is my S’s nature, but it helped him develop his writing. (Parent opportunity, be honest when he brings music to you. You aren’t right or wrong and he probably is righter than you, but I think my S knows that when I tell him I really like something I mean it because I tell him when I think it is just ok. He also knows that me not liking it could be because I am a limited 50 year old. And if he is talented, you will like plenty of it)

Record whether on a computer, 8-track recorder (S did this a lot) or in a studio, as this gives the opportunity for you to hear and improve your music. Also the opportunity to be creative. (Parent help opportunity, make sure S has a good keyboard synthesizer with lots of sounds so he can arrange the music with all of the instruments he probably hears in his head. Most of my favorites from my son involve acoustic guitar recorded through a mic accompanied by strings from his keyboard. Also a decent set of microphones, one for voice and one for instrument helped him have a pretty good “closet studio”. He literally goes in his closet to do the vocal parts. BTW everything we bought was used and for Bday or Christmas and he and a friend bought the 8 track with money they made selling their cd’s)

Form a garage band and perform (or several since people graduate, fall in love etc at that age). S has had 3 and they all have won at small battle of the bands type things and one got to play at First Avenue where Prince got his start in MPLS and they won studio recording time a couple of times. (Parent opportunity - Be willing to host the band practices even if the drums stay in the living room a few days. Gives Mom a reason to tease the drummer.)

Popular musicians benefit from classical training a lot but my sense is in addition the popular musician needs to do, do and do some more because you are to a great extent defining your own world not playing in someone else’s. You need experience creating and performing (which has a lot of creative components to it in popular music). If you are performing classical music practice/technique will be higher on the list than popular music. S will practice his songs because he wants to play perfectly, but it is not as important as the creation I think.

So, your son doesn’t fit in. It means he is in a minority, but a special minority who want to define their own music and style. If he is like my son, he won’t be happy doing other people’s music and in fact S doesn’t play any of his own for more than a year. Always likes the newer stuff better. Since he is a minority, there are fewer schools that fit, but USC, Berklee and I am sure others have programs that fit him. I talked to the Director of the program at USC and described my son down to the way he writes songs and they way he plays piano and he said something like, “I know, he doesn’t write songs for 20 people on a Sunday afternoon he writes songs for a 1000 on a Friday night” and also that they understand how a piano improvisor should be taught differently than a classical pianist. That was when I knew they knew what they were getting and we had found a place that fit him. (Parent opportunity - Do what you are doing. Research and help him find the schools that might fit and then get him there for auditions. Help him find the fit. Oh yeah, and then help figure out how to pay for it )

P.S. There is a Grammy Camp that was at USC this summer (S did not go) but it is an opportunity to let your S see how he stacks up against other serious musicians. I think USC’s popular music director is somehow involved and that would be a way to get a sense of how that program might fit him.

Good Luck

PPS Treasure these next two years. We take son to CA in 3 weeks (he said with a tear).

violadad · July 28, 2009, 3:08pm

raddad, a belated welcome and thanks for and informative an insightful post. The points you mention about fit, being with peers of “like minds” are important aspects in selecting a school.

I’d encourage you to stick around, as your experiences and insights over the next four years may well prove invaluable in adding to the knowledge and depth of the forum.

Without knowing how or if you’ve used this forum, let me point out the thread here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/618208-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2009-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/618208-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2009-a.html</a>

If you wish, I’d be more than happy to add your son’s acceptance(s) at Thorton and other music focused choices there and on the sister thread here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/665738-master-list-final-decisions-fall2009.html?highlight=master[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/665738-master-list-final-decisions-fall2009.html?highlight=master</a>

It would celebrate your son’s achievement and serve as a future resource to aid those in researching schools and options.

Congrats to your son, and to you as parent(s).

Allmusic · July 28, 2009, 3:21pm

Raddad makes a great point, and it is one that is highlighted on this board over and over again. It’s important to see how a student fits into a more nationwide pool. Being the most talented in ones individual school or region means nothing when being compared to students all over the whole country. Aside from an objective appraisal of talent, preferably by a professional outside of ones own area, it also makes sense to apply and attend music camps or festivals, and/or to enter some more nationwide competitions (Downbeat, NFAA, etc).

Finally, there are kids who are writing and then marketing their own stuff on indy music sites (what is the one that competes with ITunes? I am drawing a blank), and some of them are doing really well selling their tunes. That’s the other thing with contemporary music: there has to be the appeal to the masses, who are often not that discerning, but can be quite fickle. It’s important to see how one is received by an audience of strangers (I’d recommend a lot of open mic events), because I think that also tells a lot in the non-classical world, where (not trying to be an elitist, just a realist) technique and musicality are not above the audience’s head, as they can be in the classical world (a lay listener cannot begin to tell the difference between a good strong high school pianist and one who is conservatory bound). One more reason why I think that contemporary musicians with incredible technique go the furthest.

SpiritManager · July 28, 2009, 3:26pm

Raddad - it’s interesting to read the description of your son. My son has chosen serious classical composition as his pursuit and passion but that doesn’t preclude having all the other music in one’s life. In addition to a new music ensemble he was co-director of (the type that could have been for only 20 on a Sunday - but in the Bay Area was for 300 on a Thursday night), he’s an electric guitarist and vocalist in a Funk/Blues band that performed at the main stage of the county fair and a big city Soul Festival and won a big Battle of the Bands. He’s in a string improv group sometimes like Turtle island and sometimes like Nickel Creek. He performs as a street musician regularly for funds and fun on acoustic guitar and cello playing & singing roots music and 60’s rock and roll. He and a friend write songs and they are the opening act in San Francisco for a jazz singer this weekend. He was in his high school’s nationally recognized jazz band and played clubs and a festival in Japan with them.

In other words - someone who loves music can love all kinds of music. And following one path doesn’t mean ruling out exploring all the other ones. All the experiences and knowledge inform the other.

raddad · July 28, 2009, 5:32pm

SpiritManager - My S loves all music, but is not exceptional in all aspects as it sounds your S may be. Doesn’t have the brain to compose classical music. He appreciates it, I probably am more limited. Top small % at sitting down and spontaneously jamming and writing new music. Top half at practicing a classical piece with perfect technique. He is all-state choir, has founded acapella groups, done a lot of extra things, but doesn’t really fit into a lot of traditional music programs. He was accepted into a program that thinks he is pretty good. Most formal music programs are not geared to his strengths or looking for them. That’s ok. He found one that is. That may be more where kcreative’s son is at. Classical and jazz and all of the other styles and classes are wonderful too. On our visit to USC we attended a classical concert by the students and S was knocked over by the performances. Just not what S will pursue.

othermusicdad · July 28, 2009, 6:23pm

raddad,

I’ve also seen the Larry Livingston youtube video on the risks/rewards of a music career. 
You’re correct, it should be required viewing for anyone interested in a career in music.

He says, “Everybody that’s in music has made a bodacious, reckless decision. You can’t look this up on a chart and say, ‘Hey, good idea’.” “You have to ache for it. You have to be unwilling to live a life without it.”

There’s also a welcome speech somewhere by the dean at NEC (?) that’s also a must read. Someone on these threads must have the link.

Since youtube links are a no no, type “ARTS: Being a Successful Musician” into the youtube search engine. (If I’ve violated any cc policy, I apologize.)

Good luck to your son. USC Thornton is a great school.

violadad · July 28, 2009, 10:05pm

othermusicdad, the link is here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/661352-karl-paulnack-importance-music-todays-world.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/661352-karl-paulnack-importance-music-todays-world.html</a>, initially posted by BassDad. Karl Paulnack at Boston Conservatory was the speaker.

compmom · July 30, 2009, 9:46am

Just kind of seconding Spirit Manager’s post here.

For two nights this week, I attended the student composers forums at a summer program called Walden School, in Dublin NH. This music program was been very classical for decades, but in recent years, has been more eclectic. The concerts are amazing, and many of the kids have never written music before, or were garage band songwriters before they attended Walden. The students are immersed in music, including theory, exposure to lots of different composers, solfege, and composition classes and private lessons. In 5 weeks time, these kids produce amazing compositions.

I was thinking about this original post, and that of Spirit Manager, for some reason, while I was there. Many compositions at Walden would have been hard to even classify, and some of the more classical ones included electric guitar or electronic/computer elements. Some verged on being rock or pop, some had aspects of world music (gamelan), some had gorgeous melodies and others were edgy and dissonant. All of these kids, and professional musicians there also, moved seamlessly across genres and mixed them up within single pieces.

Having learned, through a daughter, about the “contemporary” music composition scene (and by that I mean “new music” or “contemporary classical,” the kind of thing often written these days at a traditional conservatory), after years of not knowing anything about it, I can imagine that some of the posters on here, who want to know about “contemporary” music schools, might also really enjoy looking into what is going on in the “contemporary” classical world.

Try googling “Bang on a Can,” a festival that is definitely “classical” but whose composers feature many influences, including Led Zeppelin, and where electric guitars are often included. Look up the group Eighth Blackbird. Try listening to “Different Trains” by Steve Reich, a very affecting minimalist piece that includes tape recordings of an African American conductor in the 1940’s. Listen to some George Crumb, Philip Glass, Augusta Read Thomas.

I see a parallel with the dance world. First of all, ballet is a foundation for all dance, and classical technique can be the same for music, in terms of assuring versatility and lots of choices for future direction. Second, people divide dance into “ballet,” “modern,” jazz, " and hip hop, for example, when the actual dance companies are fusing these forms, and adding new elements like world dance, or reviving old elements like folk dance. The arts today are a rich mix, and having classical training, which may seem rigid or limiting, only enables this to be richer,and makes choices freer. And all this stuff seems to be a lot of fun.

Pardon my enthusiasm. I have to say that the Eight Blackbird concert I attended several years ago was a revelation. This was my first exposure to some of the things going on in contemporary classical music. They performed a piece that included a dramatic reading of a letter written by a prisoner at Attica prison, during the riots, and the integration of music and text was unlike anything I had heard before. I also love Bach and Shostakovich, Palestrina (thanks to my daughter), Motown, English folk, and early Beatles!

Hunt · July 30, 2009, 10:50am

I just wanted to pick up on one thing from raddad’s excellent post for anybody else who may be dealing with similar kids. If you have a basesment or other space where the garage band can practice, you might want to consider buying an inexpensive drum set and some other gear if you can afford it, even if your kids don’t play the drums. I did this, and it saved me countless hours of ferrying my kids and their stuff to other houses. Plus, it’s fun to hear them play, you get to know their friends better, etc.

Allmusic · July 30, 2009, 1:06pm

And when the high school screamo band ends up practicing at your house (and you feel like screaming yourself), consider yourself warned! :D

Hunt · August 1, 2009, 12:22am

That’s a risk, sure. We’re lucky in our house that sound doesn’t travel too badly from the basement.

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