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College Majors Music Major
1621

I’m new to this forum as of last week. And since then have spent what seems like countless hours “catching up” on the world of college applications! Thank you so much to everyone who has spent all this time creating this incredible resource.

So … we are a bit behind. My son is a senior this year and hopes to be in music school next fall for jazz guitar and/or jazz composition. We now have just one month to get in applications to the schools with a Dec 1 deadline (of which there are a few). We are located in Colorado, and while there are a few CO schools on the list, my son thinks he would also be interested in either coast (probably a city, but maybe also a bustling small-town campus). I’m basically the one expanding the list of potential programs beyond Berklee, where my son’s close friend now studies. The friend has told my son that he loves it there and that my son will love it, too. I’m pretty sure that’s the case, but I’m not yet willing to let go of the idea of a more college-y experience for my son. I also think he needs some fall-backs and opportunities for scholarships and scholarship appeals. I hate the Berklee price tag but am pretty sure we don’t qualify for needs-based aid.

I read the “Double Degree Dilemma” essay and it was incredibly helpful in that it led me to see that my son is that 100% music kid. He is only going to school for music − it is musician or bust for him. In fact, his grades reflect this mono-focus to some extent. He has things in hand now that he’s a senior and is even excelling in spite of hating remote learning with a passion. But needless t say, no 4.0 GPA for him. It’s something he can talk easily about when asked (there is a learning disability involved as well), but it’s still on his record. His audition and interview will have to do all the work. But he feels confident about his skill level.

My son seems most interested in jazz funk/fusion. While he tells me he is interested in ultimately pursuing composition, I know that he would have to expand into a comp program later since he just does not have the material to submit for admission. So he will be applying with guitar but ideally will be surrounded by a full range of flanking programs in case his interests expand more. His secondary instruments are electric bass and drums, but he also plays keys and sings, and enjoys being able to do all of these.

Anyway, this is the list I’ve come up with after talking to him, reading here and scouring the Internet:

1st tier:
Berklee
University of Denver-Lamont School of Music
University of Northern Colorado
Oberlin
USC Thornton

2nd tier:
New School
NYU Steingart
University of North Texas
La College of Music
CalArts

The 2nd tier are iffier for various reasons. I don’t know too much about LACM or NYU yet. CalArts got on the list because I love the idea of an interdisciplinary arts school, which I think would be perfect for my son. It sounds like his group of friends. But it may be too small and is pricy to boot (where is the bang for my buck there? Compared to, say, Oberlin?). UNT is from my son’s list of “no-go” states (which also includes FL and most of the midwest. Sad, but true). Oberlin is a stretch school due to my son’s academics. But as an Obie who choose the school so I could continue studying voice while doing liberal arts, I know he would thrive and never be bored there. New School is on the iffy list since I can’t for the life of me figure out what distinguishes it from Manhattan School of Music. I just cannot get a sense of either school.

Unfortunately, we did not get a single campus visit in before the world shut down. I am so regretting now that we took it easy last fall and put off all our trips till spring 2020.

I’m so glad to have found this forum! It does, however, seem like there was a ton of activity towards the class of '24 and not nearly as much now for the class of '25 … ?

1622

Nice to meet you @Melusine !

I just wanted to comment on Oberlin. My daughter is taking a punishing courseload but also not doing really great with it, so we’ve ruled out schools where we think she won’t pass academic muster. As for Oberlin, on their class profile page https://www.oberlin.edu/admissions-and-aid/class-profile they give academic stats that exclude the conservatory. It’s only the college of arts and sciences. Using their common data set and making some assumptions about grade distribution, I think their conservatory students have on average a 3.1 unweighted GPA. Also we were able to visit this fall, and we heard pretty clearly that audition is king for conservatory admissions; academics are secondary. They seemed to just want to know that a kid is not going to drown when placed in an academic setting. (I’d welcome any other impressions, this is just the impression I got from our visit.)

I agree class of '25 is pretty quiet! It’s a weird year and I’m hoping things pick up now that prescreen deadlines are coming into focus.

1623

Melusine—

The list of schools seem good for jazz studies. New School and Manhattan School of Music are different in skill level. I know some got accepted to both but chose New School due to more generous scholarships though. Your son’s first choice sounds like Berklee so applying New School to compare scholarships with Berklee’s is a good idea if you will end up appealing.

Since your son prefers music-only and East / West coasts (excusing Frost-University of Miami), how about San Francisco Conservatory (RJAM)? It’s equally expensive as (or more expensive than) Berklee and less college-y due but Julian Lage is amazing. SFCM is a much smaller conservatory and some music students prefer to get more personal attentions and more performance opportunities in a smaller program. Also, more college-y type school setting, how about Hartt-University of Hartford, Temple and SUNY-Purchase?

1624

Good suggestions. I was wondering about Hartt and Purchase too. Lamont is a good possibility. Oberlin of course.

Here is a recent thread about an applicant with similar interests:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/2193238-best-jazz-guitar-faculty-schools.html#latest

Some guitar departments are mainly classical, and some jazz departments don’t mention guitar, but I’m sure if you delve a little deeper you will find what he is looking for.

1625

Thanks for the welcome!

@stringbird

Thanks for your comments on academics and the Oberlin stats. I’ve talked it all through with my son again and it’s clear to me that he is ready and willing to give 110% at all times where music is concerned, and general academics will always play second fiddle, as it were. With that said, he is a thoughtful guy and very much enjoys his literature, social studies, philosophy and debate & argument courses. (This is the main reason why I haven’t completely given up on the idea of college rather than conservatory yet, and particularly why Oberlin is so strong in the mix.) I just think other academics will get short shrift once he’s in music school. And I do want to set him up for success.

If you don’t mind my asking, which schools did you rule out for your daughter based on a high academic bar?

Just to make sure I understand, are you saying that New School has a higher level?

I appreciate the other school ideas. I mentioned SFCM to my S and his response was, “Julian Lage is a god.” So, yeah. I guess we’re adding it to the list! It’s just a bit small for him. He wants BIG and DIVERSE. I realize it’s the effect of being in a mid-size town, where he is at the mercy of (the concomitantly smaller pool of) other musicians and their whims. He’s always the one pushing for rehearsals, jams, shows, new material. He is tired of settling. He wants options. Which I think is more important to him than finding the absolute single best perfect-fit teacher. He is used to learning from a lot of different teachers, taking from them what he can get, and relying on himself (and the Internet and trial and error) to glean the rest.

It’s funny how part of this process is pinpointing where one’s own tastes and ideas about college different from the applicant-to-be’s. And letting go of some things.

In other news, my son and I, after our most last sit-down, removed NYU Steinhardt, UNT, LA College of Music and CalArts from his list. While adding New School (or Manhattan??) and SFCM. I’m a teeny bit worried he doesn’t have a safety school and/or “affordable option” (in case the market takes even more of a dive, my son receives no merit-based aid and we can’t pay much of anything out of pocket), so we might add Metropolitan State Univ. of Denver.

1626

If he is interested in Boston New England Conservatory has jazz guitar (Joe Morris), jazz composition and contemporary creative improvisation. They also have classical guitar with Eliot Fisk and the summer Guitar Institute.

1627

I suspect that it’s the pandemic causing '25 to be so quiet. My kid and I had a conversation this afternoon. Kid says that lack of performance opportunities (which kept kid so motivated and into his music) combined with seeing the worlds of his musician idols come crashing down in an instant, cannot help but affect his motivation, musically. In fact, kid says that the many pro-level people he communicates with on social media are posting about how they just cannot stay motivated to practice (and with this instrument, it’s like a ballerina not practicing - they immediately lose ground). It’s a sad time for musicians. I bet that a lot of people who were on the fence between conservatory and music major at an academic institution, are leaning towards the latter, and those who were thinking music major vs other academic field, are moving towards other fields. Only those who ARE music (as opposed to love music) would choose to move towards music under the current circumstances.

1628

Manhattan School of Music is higher level (probably a lot more competitive) than New School. There are about 100 students (approx. BM:MM=45:55) at MSM Jazz Arts and 250-270 students (BM) at New School Jazz & Contemporary. They probably find opportunities to play music together in NYC.

I am glad that your son has a in-state public school in a list as a financial back-up. My son didn’t. So we really needed large talent scholarships. It worked out at the end but it was a very stressful process, especially for a 17-year-old because getting accepted and being awarded $$ were totally different thing for us.

1629

We were originally looking at places she could do a double degree. That has changed since. Though she would still tell you she’s looking for more academic offerings than a standalone conservatory typically offers, I am beginning to suspect she’d be fine even there. What she seems to be gravitating towards is small and supportive. I’m still asking her to apply to some large public schools but honestly it might be a waste.

Anyway, I remember we ruled out Rice, Northwestern, and Boston University. There were others, though. Oberlin (the college) would be pretty reachy for my daughter, academically. She really liked the viola instructor there, though, and they definitely seemed small and supportive.

1630

Just trying hard to distract myself by reading threads. In such a chaotic year, it’s good to see some things are similar. I think that there are 3 major phases to the music school (and even degree) search. Of course not everyone goes through this but many seem too (inclduing my D).

Dream Stage - mainly in Jr year
The schools tend to be the big name schools. Or the degrees seem to encompass all. And there’s nothing wrong with that. The dreams are big…and the details are fuzzy.

Fit Stage - starting spring of Jr year into fall of Sr year
Students start to understand the details of the school and the degree. I’m sure that this is harder now. Still I think that the knowledge of the school environment, the degree requirements, the academic rigor, the teachers, the musical leanings/rigor, the ensemble opportunities…plus all the non-music related issues…make students realize that a big name or a big degree may not be the only choice. There may be some better fits in other schools.

Reality Stage - Late fall Sr year through decision time
As the reality of pre-screen requirements and then audition results start to come in, there is another stage of hard reality. Do you really want to go big, far, there? How much will it cost? Who is the teacher? What ensembles? What classes? Do I fit in? Did my frenemy get in too (unfortune question but true). Will I be able to see my dog (or yikes boyfriend/girlfriend)? And so on…

You may start out with maybe 15 schools and at the end have really only one or two serious candidates. But you can only go one place…so all is good.

Now back to checking the news…

1631

I can see this happening already! I don’t know if it will all coalesce before or after applications are sent out. My guess is somewhere midstream.

I think the most useful thing we did this year, by far, was schedule Zoom lessons with the instructors. I’m sure it’s not the same as an in-person lesson, but every time she spoke with one of the instructors I felt like she came away with a little clearer view of what she was looking for.

I don’t think we’re going to be able to answer the “will I fit in?” question very well this year, unfortunately. The internet, it turns out, can only take you so far on stuff like that. And that’s frustrating. On the other hand, I remind myself that the first time I set foot on my own alma mater’s campus… was move-in day. And it worked out. And if it hadn’t worked out, there was always transfer. We are still getting a LOT better idea of fit now than technology would allow back then, for someone who cannot travel to visit a school.

I’m very glad we got in a couple random college visits last fall, her junior year. Through music activities, she was already pretty familiar with two of our good in-state choices. So at a high level she gets the difference between public/private, large/small. I’m SO glad we got the chance to see Oberlin and Lawrence, even if they were weird incomplete visits due to COVID. Every little bit helps.

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1632

My S is at the watching-faculty-videos-on-Youtube/crisis-of-confidence stage right now. He says, “I’m not good enough and I’m not getting into any of these schools and there are only three on that list that I even want to go to.” Well, no mother wants to hear any of that, but the latter statement interested me. Thank goodness, he has actually been looking at all aspects of the schools on his own, scouring the websites, etc. (For the record, the big three are Berklee, SFCM and, way, way, way down below those two, DU Lamont.) He’s been having a down week: has not been able to see friends face to face for ages; play music with anyone except online; one of his two guitar teachers is a disaster on Zoom; most of his regular teachers are; there’s hardly any in-class time so he’s alone working on his own most of the time; and our town just switched back to a “safer at home” status. I asked him this morning if he was still feeling so negative about things and he said, “I need to practice more. And I’m too busy for all this application stuff.” He’s TA’ing in a philosophy class this term and has been writing lesson plans and teaching them himself, and that has him completely absorbed. On top of that, he has a year-long culminating project at school (he is making an EP of his own music, playing all the instruments − suffice to say, he has his work cut out for him).

I feel for all the music kids right now. My S’s after-school hours used to be filled with rehearsals until 8pm every night. And most weekends were all music too. Of course, it’s not just the music kids. I would not want to be 17 right now for the world.

Anyway, one thing my S and I agree on is that the websites do not really give us any idea of what the schools are like. In some cases, they barely advocate for the schools at all. I was back on the UNT music program pages looking for a good subpage to text to my son, hoping he might reconsider the program. The main page, student life, is all about COVID and COVID policies and blahblah blah blah blah. There was not a single page that really touted the school at all. Even the photos were just workaday stuff.

Sorry for the babbling ! And thanks for all your tips and info.

1633

Melusine—

This year is even more challenging and stressful for all music major students. Everyone here have some experiences of anxiety in an application year. You aren’t alone. I may be able to give you some more information on your son’s two top schools. Since you can’t PM me, I will try to PM you first.

1634

My DD is looking to major in music performance and also considering double major . Anyone here have similar experience. Are there colleges which encourage this. Also curious about BXA program offerings…

1635

@Tort123 you might want to start out by reading the Double Degree Dilemma essay closer to the top of this music forum. It is really an essay on the different ways to study music.

An immersive music degree, the BM. includes 2/3-3/4 classes in music. A liberal arts music degree includes 1/3-1/3 classes in music. Then there is double major, double degree, major/minor and the option of doing music lessons and performance as an extracurricular while majoring in something else.

It sounds like your daughter wants to do a BM but not sure if she is thinking double major or double degree. Many BM students do a double degree over 5 years. Many colleges encourage this.

For examples look at Oberlin Conservatory (and also their Musical Studies BA in the college),Bard (which requires BM students to do a double degree), Lawrence, Ithaca, Tufts/NEC, Harvard/NEC, U of Michigan, and there are many many others.

Sometimes a double major within a conservatory is, say, an instrument and theory, for example. Some students do “double major” at a university school of music but a double degree makes it a lot easier :slight_smile:

1636

@compmom Thank you so much for pointing me to the Double degree Dilemma essay. The entire thread with feedback from other parents was extremely informative. My D is currently showing a lot of interest in performance career, but feels she needs some academic rigor as well in college. So for now double degree seems to be a very good option. Bard seems to be a great option … I am looking at the other double degree options as well. I am more concerned about the stress factor with going for a double degree along with music and would like to know whether some college make this easier to achieve than others. Also, the BCSA program in CMU seems to be great option but would like to hear from someone who might know someone who was in the program.

1637

In the double degree programs I am familiar with, the five year timeline helps a lot. The colleges listed above are very supportive of a double degree, and there are others. It can be nice to have college/university and conservatory/school of music on the same campus, but there are excellent programs that involve transportation too.

You might also want to look at the enhanced Musical Studies BA at Oberlin, which is a partnership between the college and conservatory:
https://www.oberlin.edu/arts-and-sciences/departments/musical-studies. This degree allows for a double major (as opposed to a double degree). I am not aware of any other program like this, though others may chime in.

1638

So true.

I keep saying to my daughter…do you really want to go that far? She “says” she will go anywhere …but in my heart of hearts, I think she would hate to be too far and hasn’t realized it yet.

We are on the East Coast, so we have a lot of options…problem is, they are $$ options. After seeing what the Arts sector went through, I’m trying to urge her to think about approaching her degree differently. I encourage her to think of how she can be essential. It’s just hard when this has been your dream for so long and everything you’ve worked for. :disappointed:

As acceptances/denials roll in and we schedule auditions and zoom lessons, I think she will get a better grasp as this becomes “real”. For so many of these kids, I think the process hasn’t really hit them bc they are still applying and auditioning from home.

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1639

I’m assuming this post is referencing my 11/6 post on stages. And, it is still early (believe it or not) in the hard reality stage. My D was going to go to an LAC for MT until early February. I still remember thinking (as she finally questionned this in the rental car at an LAC after an audition…it was a damp, cold, grey day to match my mood). I thought…really…you’re figuring that out in Feb…when we only have one large school on your list? But that’s how long it took. Many kids do pivot in the end…and some don’t.

I’ll tell you a couple of things…that maybe can help.

1.) She may be RIGHT! She may surprise you and do fine. Wouldn’t it be a shame if you stood in her way.

2.) She can always transfer (if in the end you are right). It’s not a failure. It’s not bad. It’s a LOT to expect your 18 year old to have it all figured out. So be FLEXIBLE. Kids want a music degree but it’s hard to understand how that plays out until you’re “doing” it.
Transfers/major changes DO happen…so be smart about the courses and the program so a transfer is possible (without a lot of financial concerns).

3.) Your kid is getting a Bachelor’s Degree. My D has learned to be scrappy (since her parents are too “poor” to buy her succcess or support her…lol). She has survived fine this year. She got a new job during the pandemic…working remotely and part-time for a company. And just received a nice check (she told me proudly) for a New Year’s Eve concert that was filmed. She also teachs. She has a nice, little life as an artist. THANK GOODNESS she’s an artist with a a few jobs and not working in the TRAVEL industry…where she may have gotten laid off! There are many job that ONLY require a Bachelor’s Degree. If she’s a hard worker and a good communicator, have FAITH that she can make herself essential to many employers and/or gigs and/or performance venues.

4.) Do attempt to avoid unmanageable debt. This is where I would focus more than the “studies” portion. No debt is what makes my D’s life enjoyable. I got some real anger over my stance in high school. By UG my D started feeling smart while some other kids were feeling “used” by schools. So if you can stay strong on financial targets that’s good. It is very difficult however. I remember laying in bed staring at the ceiling wondering if I could really say “no”…luckily she had good financial alternatives for schools. So I get it if you decide differently…but debt is hard for artists in good times even.

Your worries are valid and normal. She WILL get a college degree. And believe it or not, you’ll look at her and think…you’re on your own scooter…and feel OK about that. In high school, I still wanted to protect her. After colleges, I had a different mindset and so did she.

I hope that this helps in some way.

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1640

I am jumping in to introduce myself. My D is a Junior and interesting in majoring in music or something “music adjacent” for lack of a better term. So far the list of colleges is fairly long. D has taken piano since age 8 and recently started playing guitar. She is a talented vocalist and has taken voice lessons as well. She is also a songwriter She is in choir in HS and her voice lessons are classically focused, but she is more interesting in cotemporary music and can’t see herself studying classical voice or choral voice for 4 year. She is taking her first Music Theory class this semester, doing well and really enjoying it.

She is an above average student in a competitive school district. She has yet to take her standardized tests.

We are looking at programs generally called “Commercial Music” but they seem to have lots of names. She also has some interest in Music Business or production programs and songwriting. She generally wants to do “something creative” preferably in music when she grows up.

I have a few novice questions. Many of the schools have so many options (Frost and Belmont are examples). Must you apply to one program or can you apply to multiple programs. If so, do they ask you to rank your choices?

Any insights are appreciated. I am happy to have found this forum and feel like I will be asking a lot of question in the next months.

I have no musical training, though I used to work in Higher Education. I thought that background would be helpful when it came time for my daughter’s college search, but understanding how to navigate music school admission seems to have a steep learning curve.