<p>Hunt - "They usually put the 7th graders in a separate room for the test. I'm not really sure if that's for their benefit, or for the upperclassmen, though!"</p>
<p>This is actually up to the location that administers the test. Son took it in the same room as the Juniors and Seniors. He came away laughing as prior to the start he had two different upperclassmen try to explain to him that he wasn't allowed to wait for his older sibling in the test room. :-)</p>
<p>Before the test I had been worried about the possibility of his having to take the test along with the older students and had asked the folks at Duke if there was a seperate room for the 7th graders. They had explained to me that it depended on the test site. I had voiced my opinion that it might be intimidating to take the test mixed in with the older kids. Their reply "It is intimidating, but, not for the 7th graders!! The older students hate it when a 12 year old finished before them and gets a better score."</p>
<p>I always think it's for the benefit of the high school kids. I can imagine the scene when my son took the math portion in 7th grade. He answered the few questions he knew how to do and then sat there with his hands folded. I think it would freak the high school students out if they thought the 7th graders were "done" before they were!</p>
<p>I think it was Northstarmom who mentioned the expense of some of these camps. That would also have been a factor for us at the time. If that applies to anyone else who might be reading, there are other things to do that aren't as expensive and don't involve being far away (if that is an issue). For instance, my daughter once did a half-day/three-week robotics class (some colleges had those). The assistants were very enthusiastic college students. The class was mostly older boys, very into making their vehicles and such, and my d loved it. She was very much into the motorized lego sets at the time.</p>
<p>She was a phase kid growing up, if anyone has had one of those. She lived and breathed whatever the current topic of interest was, so we just sort of went with her passion-of-the-month approach and supplied relevant books, field trips, classes and such. She got a lot of off-beat in-depth knowledge this way. (No one direction in life, though, but that's a topic for another thread...)</p>
<p>My oldest took the SAT in middle school with no prep and no pressure. We managed to scrap together the money for one CTY summer program and it was his favorite camp of all. He would not have done well at a traditional summer camp so it was a great option for him. He has friends who spent several summers at these camps and kept going back for more (cost not a problem for those families). Not sure my younger son would ever want to go to the camp, so we may not have him take it. </p>
<p>Taking the SAT unprepped in middle school can also provide some indication of a kid's level of giftedness. Not the same as an IQ test of course, but a low cost way to get some indication of level in thinking about high school or other opportunities. Not much help in preparing for the ones that count in High School, however, except for gaining some familiarity with the testing process.</p>
<p>My son has never been in a math club or competition, he's just good at math for some reason (it must be a generation skipping trust). No pressure there, he's a 3rd child, so he's been flying under the radar for years ;)</p>
<p>Not wishing to be "fresh" but when I saw the title of this thread..."my 7th grader was not asked to take the SAT"...my first reaction was ...SO WHAT??? Lots of opportunity to take the SAT's in the future, and lots of opportunities to do enriching things that do not require that a 7th grader take this test.</p>
<p>I asked my children to take the SAT in sixth (son) and seventh (daughter) grades, as that would open many doors for them. My son came out if saying "there was a bunch of math I'd never seen before so I had to derive it." He mentioned that to his math teacher and really upset her. She was even more upset when she found out that his sixth grade score was higher than her senior year score in math.</p>
<p>Both kids did extremely well, and their performances did enable some later opportunities as a result.</p>
<p>"Anyone else have a bright kid who was not asked to take the SAT?" My son took the test in 7th grade and is a college dropout. My daughter wasn't asked, had problems in math in 7th grade and goes to a great college. All this worry about students so young is ridiculous.</p>
<p>Kids are not always invited to take the SATs for TIP or CTY who should be. I found out about CTY on my own and went through some minor work so that my child could apply and take the SATs. It's worked out well.
In some areas, they put the talent search kids in a separate room so that neither they nor the 'big kids' freak out.</p>
<p>My oldest D was not invited in 7th grade. She was invited in 8th grade, but chose not to do it because she wasn't interested. She is now a senior, a 4.09 GPA, an AP Scholar with Honors, in the top 9% of her class (large public school), and although her SAT is only an 1840, she is going for a BFA in Acting, so who cares? Its all about the audition....</p>
<p>My youngest D was invited to in 7th grade, but didn't do the paperwork in time. She did take it in the 8th grade for John Hopkins through UC Irvine. She did well enough and got invited to do summer camp and was not interested. She is a freshman now and so far, has a 4.0 GPA. She also took the PSAT this year, but don't have the results yet.</p>
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<p>In one way, that sort of confirms my belief that she's probably the least bright of the three. >></p>
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<p>well...I'm certainly hoping the OP does not share this with her children. </p>
<p>I have to say again...taking the SAT in 7th grade is not the be all end all for bright kids...or for any kid for that matter. It's just not THAT important. There are tons of very enriching opportunities available to students who DO NOT take this test.</p>
<p>People should realize that the testing process is good for an elite few- gifted kids- who are helped by the information about their abilities, such as identification of them, and/or options they and their parents may not be aware of for gifted kids. Some programs offer partial to full need based scholarships for programs. The year my son qualified for the CTD awards program at Northwestern the speaker was a Chigago area Nobel Laureate in Physics who worked with a local GT program - he was an excellent speaker for we science types- I finally understood quarks et al.</p>
<p>"Bright" can yield high gpa's, especially for those who work hard. The top students represent the flip side of the retarded special needs children- remember there are two halves to the Bell curve and people vary as much from average in their thought processing on both "tails" of the curve. Those with gifted kids (and please acknowledge the term, using euphemisms doesn't change any facts) hopefully read a lot of the good literature now available and understand the multiple facets of their child. Those with bright kids may not understand that for some kids scoring in the high 600s or 700s on an SAT in middle school is easy- they are not pushed, etc. There is more of a problem in our society with holding back gifted kids- it is like forcing a gifted runner/swimmer to slow down so s/he is at the same pace as others. For some kids being at a GT camp is the only time they are with intellectual peers of the same age.</p>
<p>I had to get on my soapbox as most people can't comprehend what it is like for gifted kids, it has nothing to do with parental feelings/pushing, etc. Teachers are usually bright- I would like to tell some of them that for the less than 3 or 5 in 100 students being in school is like it would be for the average student being in the special ed class for those with IQ's of less than 70. Gifted kids are still kids, but with their own needs and variability. "Enriching" depends on the needs of a child- one may be bored by something totally new and challenging to most. The idea behind all of the talent searches is to identify and meet needs of a group of children whose needs are not met by usual enrichment programs.</p>
<p>Wis--Thanks for your heartfelt comments. The giftedness of children and adults differs markedly as do the programs offered to "serve" them. Some of the programs are exciting, well-developed and very stimulating while honestly others are where the school exercises its perogitive to put its worst teachers (damage control so they will hopefully traumatize the fewest students--seriously that has happened in several of the programs I am familiar with--unions make it very tough to get rid of faculty, even when there are serious problems).</p>
<p>When JHU/CTY programs run and are handled as intended, they can really be helpful to kids, schools and families. Unfortunately, some teachers choose to use test scores against students unfairly as well. For example, my S had teachers who gave him very low grades for writing because he has great scores on the vocabulary portion of standardized tests which PROVES he should be a great writer (in their minds). His writing is terse and concise (like many math/science kids) but not great, especially not showing creative genious.</p>
<p>When parents egos and competitiveness gets involved in whether kids should take tests and what should be done about results, it really subverts the intent of the program. I agree that there are kids who enjoy mental challenges, tests, and puzzles, seeking them out in their free time and creating their own and challenging one another. It is tough for these kids to find peers--I know of one kid who was reading magic and chess books and challenging university kids to chess matches in second grade. Those were the closest to peers he could find & he was always forced to be paired with whichever kids in the grade were having the toughest time--behaviorally or academically (he now hates tutoring anyone :(). It is really unfortunate that so little is done for the bright and gifted in our society, tho of course it is important to serve the lower end and middle in our educational system. We still need to nurture the bright and gifted, but that's considered a "frill" by many and often the first thing to be cut.</p>
<p>My daughter, in a Chicago (gifted) Public School in Sixth Grade, took the SAT along with all her classmates. I was pleased that she scored higher than chance (ie. the dart board, monkey, whatever gets that metric across). Took it again in 7th grade as part of CTY. I'm a big believer in out-of-age testing for smart kids.
On the other hand, I have a daughter at home in that age range and don't feel the need to do it again. I can just administer an SAT from a book of a morning if we both feel like it.
But what about having experienced the real pressure cooker testing situation with peers?
The first daughter mentioned got out the car for her PSAT testing and immediately dropped and broke the lead on all three of her pencils. She was that wired. Scored a 236 anyway.
I find myself getting more relaxed with each successive kid.<br>
All this testing can be done at home. Don't rely on false gatekeepers.</p>
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<p>most people can't comprehend what it is like for gifted kids>></p>
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<p>Try having a kid who is gifted in the arts...the SAT doesn't help them at all...and neither do most schools.</p>
<p>My point is that as a 7th grader the message shouldn't be "you're not as smart as the other kids because you weren't invited to take the SAT". I'm sorry...I just don't believe that's true. Many very smart kids do not take the SAT in the 7th grade.</p>
<p>Experience here, one child who THRIVES on mental math games, loves VEDIC math theory, fascinates him, wants and looks for the challenge, all completely self motivated, (trust me have 4 kids so it has to be self driven in this house) Another child as bright and capable, is more interested in what is the newest fashion trend is at the mall, newest gadget available". Treats brothers interest as a " wow, can we go to the mall".
The former picks up 18 year olds SAT book for fun, figures out the speed/distance from the pitchers mound and timing of his baseball swing to get the best hit. Go figure.</p>
<p>Yea, we have a gifted arts kid & her gifted math/science brother. It's interesting to see them interact. It's even more interested to her her explanation of math problems/concepts (artists really do think differently). She has had a very tough time finding mentors--fprtunately she at least hasn't had many teachers destroy her work because she "didn't do what was asked" in art (goes far beyond what was covered in perspective, shading, texturing, etc., from young grades & taught her grade school peers about these concepts because they weren't being covered).</p>
<p>I never took the SAT before applying to colleges or went to one of those "smart camps." For all intents and purposes, up until high school I was shaping up to be a very average kid; and although some teachers noticed I had a knack for reading and writing, most found me to be the bane of their existence. </p>
<p>HS was a breeze for me. I graduated with a respectable number of AP classes, a 3.9, and got a 2300 on my SAT - and yes, all without being one of those stereotypical "hard workers." My classmates were going to Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Cal Tech, MIT, etc.</p>
<p>In contrast, many of my friends who attended CTY and similar gifted camps when they were much younger grew into other strengths, such as music (he's going to a conservatory), the arts (she wants to be a tattoo artist), or in the case of one very smart friend, social activism and drug experimentation (I don't think she's in college right now - maybe she's roughing it in the woods somewhere!)...their HS SATs weren't anything to be proud of.</p>
<p>7th grade is 7th grade.</p>
<p>Don't stress it. </p>
<p>We all take time to come into our own - and even then, some of fall out of it for a period, or come into a very unexpected one!</p>