My Chances? (ALL Info Included)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
1

<p>Hey all, just joined the forums today.</p>

<p>I was just wondering what everyone thought my chances were. I'm no superstar, but I think I have at least a decent chance.</p>

<p>Male, 6'1, 180lbs.</p>

<p>CFA Results:</p>

<p>79ft. Basketball throw
12 pull ups
8.1 Shuttle Run
88 crunches
71 push ups
7:10 mile (I DISPISE running. Though I've been running a mile each morning, and going longer distances each month)</p>

<p>I attended the Summer Seminar in June, and I think I received a very positive letter from my squad leader (as I put in all the effort that I possibly had, which he noticed).</p>

<p>Due to a very limited number of people in Maine applying for Service Academies, I have a very strong chance of getting a nomination from 1 (though probably 2) of my Reps.</p>

<p>Did the DoDMERB thing; just have to take another eye test to get the waiver for having glasses. Everything else seems fine though</p>

<p>Did the BGO interview (he was in John McCain's class, lawl), and I was surprised how relaxed he was. Said many times he doesn't know why everyone freaks out about the interview, as he sees it as a small and foolish part. So I'm not worried about how that went.</p>

<p>I have an unweighted GPA of a 3.3, weighted it's a 3.8, as I've taken ONLY honors/AP classes since Freshman year. I'm ranked about 30 in my class, mostly due to the people who take the dumbed-down courses like basket-weaving and cooking and get 100s. Yeah, the weighting stinks. Anyways:</p>

<p>The classes I will have taken after senior year are:</p>

<p>4 semesters of Spanish
2 semesters of Latin
6 semesters of Science (2 of Chemistry, 3 of Biology, 1 of Earth Science, and 1 of Physics)
5 semesters of Math (Geometry, Alg. II, Pre-Calc, Honors Calc, AP Calc)
5 semesters of English (One each year plus AP in my 2nd Semester senior year)
4 semesters of History</p>

<p>Everything else was a forced class, like Gym, Health, etc.</p>

<p>I've taken all the "real" AP courses at my school (Calc, English, History), and I thought it would be stupid to waste one my valuable academic slots to take the only other AP class, Computer Science.</p>

<p>As for my tests:</p>

<p>SAT:</p>

<p>Reading: 690
Writing: 710
Math: 680</p>

<p>ACT: </p>

<p>32</p>

<p>I have a long string of awards, stemming mostly from my Public Speaking extracurriculars. </p>

<p>-I'm Captain of the Debate team for 3 high schools.
-Just went to Nationals in a style I've never debated in before.
-Several top 3 placements at State tournaments
-I'm involved in a Church community in which I'm very active (such as the Church Festivals, Bible Study, reader and chanter, etc.)
-Compete in a speaking competition for the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese (which I've advanced to the New England finals in).
-Interning 3-5 hours a week for Senator Olympia Snowe for more than a year.
-Honored by the Maine State Legislature and Governor for my public speaking.</p>

<p>So, I focus pretty deeply in 3 areas. I can't get into the NHS because I don't do 5 extracurriculars, which I see as spreading myself too thin, and I'd rather devote myself fully to everything I do.</p>

<p>As you can see, I don't play any sports for my school. I'm physical (as seen by my CFA), and I enjoy playing sports with my friends, but because I live on an island and my school is 5 miles away, in addition to having shared custody between two parents for 3/4 days each week, it's nearly impossible for me to do much. To play sports would mean staying at school until 6, making the 8 o clock boat home, and...yeah. Not feasible at all, and my grades would slide.</p>

<p>So, though this was longer than I thought it would be (sorry!), I'm wondering what you think my chances are.</p>

<p>Thanks,
Will</p>

2

<p>solid applicant.</p>

<p>Your interviews will put you over the top or keep you on the fence. Everything else looks pretty well in place.</p>

3

<p>What's your rank? 30 of 50, 100, 300? You did not tell us. Any athletic activities? If you're counting semesters grades 9-12, I'd be wanting to know more. Fine test scores. The NHS thing sound a bit strange. Your EC looks extremely one dimensional and your leadership solely in that one dimension and not one high on USNA list. </p>

<p>And as for the interview, considering its the only interviewing experience and contact (for NASS) I suspect Mr. McCain's classmate may well have been jerking your chain.</p>

<p>I'd want to know alot more about your non-athletic, non-NHS, and seemingly very light academic load in terms of courses. You MAY be a solid candidate, you may not. Clearly you're sufficiently bright. If I'm seeing these quirks, I'm betting the Admissions Committee is going to see them even more quizically. </p>

<p>You've got some time to make up some ground. Were I you, I'd be exploring that more so than explaining away some significant question marks. Especially in the competition route. Remember ... something like 95% of Mids play sports and I don't think debate is considered such. At present you'd be in a very small, unpopular minority in the Admissions Office.</p>

<p>P.S. My mid says running may be the single most imporant PT issue. He laughs, telling me it seems way more important than being able to swim. Keep running.</p>

4

<p>I'm 30 of about 300.</p>

<p>As I've stated, I don't play sports at school, due to the nearly impossible circumstances I'm in. I haven't told the admissions office that I live on an island, restrictive boat schedules, etc. because I don't want to send them excuses.</p>

<p>You also stated I have a very light academic load...I hardly see how that's possible when all of my classes for the past 4 years have been the most difficult that are available, in addition to taking no study halls.</p>

<p>At this point, I'm not going to take up a sport because it will, above everything, cause my grades to slide (as this is going to be my hardest year). In addition, it won't be Varsity, and I'll have no time to achieve anything before applications are due. So, unless the Academy wants me to take a sport just for the sake of taking a sport (which I am positive is false), I will accomplish nothing by undertaking something so trivial at such a late stage.</p>

5

<p>First, realize that I'm biased by AF thinking...</p>

<p>Your schedule looks odd to me. Can you explain your semester system. The way my school defined classes, it would appear that I took twice the number of classes that you did. That doesn't seem right to me. </p>

<p>I don't know how admissions would look at your EC scheduling issues. You look strong in speaking, but that's about it. Honestly, I wouldn't expect admissions to look extremely favorably on being strong in only one area, especially if it is not a sport. I knew several students in HS who would wake up a 4AM to go to practice, then stay after school until 5 or 6 for more, plus being active in several clubs. One was also the valedictorian. Admissions doesn't require that kind of thing, but some applicants will look like that.</p>

6

<p>Put your application in and see what happens.
Your chance is 100% zero if you do not apply.
As long as you do apply, the rest is up for grabs.
Just do yourself a huge favor and make sure you have backup plans in place- just in case.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

7

<p>Our school has 8 classes per year, 4 per semester. </p>

<p>Navy2010, oh yeah, I have back-up plans. Though I still speak in terms of what I will do if I go to the academy, I either plan on going to Norwich University for NROTC, Brown, Bowdoin, or one of the University of Maine schools, which specialize highly in the sciences. </p>

<p>I forgot to post it, but I've received 5 awards for science and history classes, mostly due to grades and book awards by certain colleges. Those, however, I don't like to talk much about, because I didn't actively work for them; they just fell into my lap. </p>

<p>I guess Ill post my schedule from years past to clear some things up:</p>

<p>Freshman:</p>

<p>Spanish II
Spanish III
Earth Science (Honors)
World History (Honors)
Architecture (For fine arts credit)
Gym (Required)
English (Honors)
AMP Geometry (Higher-than-honors level of class)</p>

<p>Sophomore:</p>

<p>Spanish IV (Honors)
Spanish V (Honors)
Biology (Honors)
AMP Algebra II
English (Honors)
Independent Study on Byzantine Culture (For the remaining fine arts credit)
Health (Required)
U.S. History (Honors)</p>

<p>Junior:</p>

<p>AMP Pre-Calculus
Physics (Honors)
English (Honors)
Late U.S. History (Honors)
AP U.S. History
Anatomy and Biochemistry (Honors)
Chemistry (Honors)</p>

<p>Senior:</p>

<p>Advanced Honors Chemistry
Advanced Honors Biology
Calculus (Honors)
AP Calculus
English (Honors)
AP English
Latin I
Latin II</p>

<p>Thanks to all who have posted so far for being honest.</p>

8

<p>

I think this is exactly why the Academy wants you to play a sport! They want to see if you can handle rigorous academics while participating in other rigorous EC's.</p>

9

<p>Sounds as if your school is on a "semestering" system. It would clear up confusion for those outside the education world if you talk about "credits" rather than "semesters".</p>

<p>i.e. "4 credits in English";
4 credits in History--wait-- where is your fourth credit of Social studies, did I miss it?</p>

<p>Look online at the USNA candidate bulletin or admissions information bulletin, whatever it is called. Unless I am mistaken, they are looking for 4 credits in English, 4 credits in Social studies, minimum of 3 math credits, (prefer 4 including calculus), 3 lab sciences, (prefer 4, including chemistry), 2 of a foreign language, (prefer 3).</p>

<p>3 AP courses is a light load for USNA candidates, but if that is all your school offers, you should explain that, and perhaps consider taking the SAT II in the subjects that were "advanced honors" to demonstrate your proficiency.</p>

<p>Double check on the USNA preferred backgroud and compare yourself to it. You still have time to adjust your schedule to meet the preferences.</p>

<p>You seem a little light on the leadership. I don't quite get how you can manage interning but not any athletics. Don't you have the same transportation problem?</p>

<p>You sound like a really great student, but remember most of the candidates are also really great. They are your competition for appointment.</p>

<p>Good Luck in your endeavors,
CM</p>

10

<p>Ah, I see where the confusion is. Each semester is equal to 2 credits of a class. So:</p>

<p>12 Credits of Language
12 Credits of Science
10 Credits of Math
8 Credits of History
10 Credits of English</p>

<p>Yeah, I'm taking 3 of the SAT IIs. I wish we did offer more AP classes.</p>

<p>The funny part it, there's a high school within walking distance of the boat that I have to take, which means if I went there, I could do all that I wanted. However, it's smack in the middle of the ghetto, the academics are awful, and there's usually a stabbing/shooting 3 times a year. So my parents made me go to the safer one the suburbs. The Senators office is 5 minutes from the boat, so I can walk back and forth, but with a 5 mile commute to school...well, I'd end up getting home at 10:00. Then I still have to have dinner and do about 2 hours of homework, and get up at 5 to make the boat back to the mainland. Not an ideal situation at all.</p>

11

<p>You had better check with your guidance counselor. I highly doubt that you will graduate with 10 carnegie units in English. </p>

<p>Generally speaking, a class that meets for 45 mins each day for a full 40 weeks earns a single carnegie unit of credit. The same class which meets each day for 90 mins for 20 weeks, earns the same single unit of credit.</p>

<p>It would appear that you will graduate with 4 English credits, for example, and perhaps 5, (I highly doubt 10!!) but only 3 in social studies and almost no Physical Education. Again check with the website for USNA to make sure you are not eliminating yourself from consideration due to a lack of required courses in high school.</p>

<p>Good Luck.
CM</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
I don't like to talk much about, because I didn't actively work for them; they just fell into my lap.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I highly doubt that. If they were based on your grades, you obviously put the effort in somewhere. Congratulations on your accomplishments.
And this is one time i would "NOT" not talk about them! Do yourself a favor and make sure you note those SOMEWHERE on your application!<br>
A little humility is a good trait in a leader.... too much is just plain dumb. ;)</p>

13

<p>This web becomes a bit more tangled, it seems. :confused:</p>

<p>I'm sure I'm geographically naive ... where on coastal Maine is that ghetto?</p>

14

<p>Sim, </p>

<p>Be careful what you ask/wish for....you make get more than you bargained for. Throwing you life accomplishments out for people to dissect can be less than pleasant at times, I hope the feedback you are receiving doesn’t discourage you in any way from applying. As others have said you will never know for sure until you try; if attending the Naval Academy is you goal, go for it and don’t look back. </p>

<p>How many times have you taken the SATs and ACT? Your scores are very good, but as I’m sure you know they can never be too good. Take the tests again if at all possible; you have nothing to loose and much to gain. Getting your math score into the 700s will certainly be a plus. If there is any confusion about the organization of your high school classes and course load as seen by some of the questions here, make an effort to educate admissions about your school. Your guidance counselor may do the job for you, and then again they may not. Don’t take any part of this complicated process for granted. If you can get your hands on things like state HS rankings or standardized test scores comparing schools in your state, send them in and/or make them available to your BGO. If all your efforts do is show interest and determination you will have lost nothing but a little time and potentially gained much. </p>

<p>Last point I want to address which is totally under you control and something others have commented on; RUN! If you want to address your lack of sports participation and demonstrate your condition and capacity to survive Plebe summer etc, get that time down and update your CFA. A 6:55 sounds better than a 7:10, much better than the 15 seconds that actually separates the two times. My son didn’t even start this process in which you are already well along until early November. You have 3 months or more to work on getting your running time down. Find someone to run with that is faster than you and train with them. You also need a plan if you are going to push your limits and improve your times progressively; just going for a run every day or two isn’t going to get you to where you want to be. Talk to your Track or Cross Country coaches, and tell them about your goals, they may be more than willing to help. Good luck!</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
I'm sure I'm geographically naive ... where on coastal Maine is that ghetto?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I could be wrong but sounds like Portland to me --- lots of little islands that boat kids to the mainland for school up there and the docks are - not so nice.</p>

<p>I would say -academically looks very good.
Athletically - could be a problem. don't let it deter you though, too late to do anything about the "team sport" issue. Don't apologize - just emphasize the better parts of your profile</p>

<p>Bottom line - depends on the competition in your congressional district. Looks like you are probably in the 1st congressional district which encompasses most of the coast - probably much more competitive than the 2nd district. If you come out on top - you could be good to go. If there are a few other kids in front of you - different story. One other thing to think about - the academies look for diversity - not only in gender, race etc but in geography. Give it a go - you have nothing to lose.
Good Luck.</p>

16

<p>Sim,</p>

<p>Your GPA and test scores look a lot like my son's, who got letters of assurance last fall from USNA, USAFA and USMA. Ended up with 3 nominations, so he had his pick.</p>

<p>The only difference is that he consistently played 2 varsity sports a year (lacrosse and cross-country) and lettered in both. He ran like crazy his senior year in high school - was logging 50+ miles a week by May. Bought the "Navy Seal Workout" book on Amazon.com and swore by it. Said it helped him 110% with plebe summer - it's not just running, it's also pullups, weights (fireman's carry) and a lot more. A mile a day is a good start, but I'd definitely work up to 2-3 miles a day over the next year. </p>

<p>He also got a job as a range officer at our local shooting center. Ended up with double-Es on both rifle and pistol. </p>

<p>During his Blue and Gold interview (the parent part, anyway), his BGO wanted information on his time management skills (like you, he is a joint-custody kid for the last 11 years) and his commitment to the military in time of war. </p>

<p>Keep up on the paperwork; I think that the sheer volume of forms you've got to keep track of before and after (especially after) you get in is about 10x that of a civilian school. My plebe bought a file box just to keep everything straight from all the congresspeople and the senators. Ask every single member of Congress for a nomination, not just Snowe. And realize that some Congressmen/women are more efficient than others on their paperwork. We had one (no names to protect the guilty) who ran right up to the wire getting paperwork back to us. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

17

<p>One again, thanks to everyone for giving their opinions. It really helps me know what I should work on, especially those parents who have mids at the Academy now.</p>

<p>As for the high school class requirements, the USNA website talks about taking 4 years of English, etc., however, in the school I attend, one semester is equal to taking a year of something. So, I will have taken 5 'years' of English, 6 'years' of languages, etc. But I can see where it would be confusing. Let's hope the Navy can discern this puzzle :p</p>

<p>@ Zoom57 - I should get used to having my personality picked apart; it would happen for the rest of my life should I be accepted the Academy. Heh. I've only taken the SAT and ACT once, but I'm gonna take them as many times as I can. My goal is to do 4-5 miles a day of running once I get better. Just this morning my mile time was 6:50, so it's coming down.</p>

<p>@ JustAMom - Yeah, it's Portland. The boat's aren't the bad part, but that school is located right across the street from where the city sticks ALL the new immigrants (as they need to rely on the state to pay for the housing). Not saying I dislike immigrants, but there is a LOT of crime in that area.</p>

<p>@ GoNavy - My mom, against my pleas, took it upon herself to be at the BGO meeting (she thinks I'm going to sign my life away). Yet before I could speak about not doing athletics when he questioned me about it, she went into the whole "island-and-joint-custody-with-no-way-to-get-to-school" thing. Needless to say I was mortified, but the BGO got a good laugh out of it. The good thing about Maine reps is that all you have to do is submit a 1 page questionnaire, 3 letters of recommendation, and a small letter describing your ECs to one Senator/Rep. Then they send it to all the other offices, so it's quick and painless. The DoDMERB paperwork is the big problem. Lol.</p>

18

<p>Sim - as long as you keep up the good work, I'm betting you're a strong candidate for USNA.</p>

<p>((Hey, we parents (all three of us - mom, stepdad, dad) were REQUIRED to attend the first half of the BGO interview! And, yep, the whole joint custody thing was part of the questioning - in a nice way, though.))</p>

<p>With your future candidacy in mind, here is a great link to the USNA Phys. Ed. Department:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.usna.edu/PEScheds/HPL8Week.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usna.edu/PEScheds/HPL8Week.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It has an 8-week conditioning schedule that gets you in good shape to begin plebe summer. I'd print it out and use it religiously - and do your best to overachieve, to go beyond what this schedule says. This schedule just gets you in minimal shape to start the summer - you are doing a lot of physical activity for seven weeks, not just running but 'chopping' in Bancroft Hall and marching, marching, marching. The better shape you're in, the less injury-prone you'll be. </p>

<p>During plebe summer, the plebes are roughly divided into three ability groups for morning PEP runs - it will do a lot for your mental state if you get into one of the top two groups and avoid the lowest (less cadre attention).</p>

<p>Also:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Buy a pair of excellent, high-quality mostly white running shoes (look at New Balance) a month before plebe summer and put maybe 100 miles on them. Wear them in on I-Day; you'll get them back and be able to switch shoes out (helps avoid shin splints) during the summer. </p></li>
<li><p>Work on your running form, on your pullup form - basically, make sure you can do the exercises in a way that won't strain your joints and ligaments. If you injure yourself during plebe summer, you will be hobbling around on crutches with your company - unpleasant. And the cadre will make you do every thing possible with your company - there is no 'school nurse's office' during plebe summer, sad to say.</p></li>
<li><p>Look around this board and keep up on the changes currently going on in the USNA. Basically, there is less liberty and less extra curricular activities (ECA) for the mids now. Understand that the USNA is changing its focus to educating a wartime force, and is becoming much less 'civilian' in its approach.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Have fun! Good luck!</p>

19

<p>Sim, I'm visiting your thread one last time as I believe you may be at risk of not fully understanding your dilemma. The sole reason I am beating your horse is because you have time to address what I believe are circumstances that could seriously harm your chances. Let me also say that while none of us on this casual forum are expert, all-knowing, or even ANY-knowing about your chances in the USNA admission process, we do know some things about the process, the USNA class profile, and your background. Before getting to my point, let me add that I choose not to patronize you for fear of bruising your libido, because I believe, should you choose to do so, you do have time to address your aversion to competitive athletics ... which you will participate in nearly every day of your SA life, were you to eventually attend. You have asked a fair question, and you've already received some very diverse opinions. Rather, I choose to reflect upon your circumstances from what you've chosen to share in a candid fashion. Mine like all the other opinions are worth precisely what you're paying for them. The only one that counts is that of the USNA Admission Committee.</p>

<p>Here's what we know for sure. The USNA and all the other SAs for that matter do not view competitive sports as merely another EC. It's not debate or wrestling ... or band vs. cross country. Participating in athletic competition is close to being essential to being admitted. In fact more than 9 of 10 actual appointed Mids have participated in competitive athletics and nearly all of those have lettered.</p>

<p>What that means statistically is that 9 of 100 plebes has chosen NOT to participate in team sports. While we can only speculate, it would seem that of those 9 chosen, they would NOT be merely the average outstanding, super student. They most certainly will bring something of special need or some extraordinary talent to the Academy and their class ... they will have extraordinary intellect as reflected in rank and scores ... or they've discovered the speed of light or ... they wrote a best selling novel ... or conducted the NY Philharmonic at age 8 ... or ... you get it. These 9 are most likely Exceptional, Extraordinary. </p>

<p>Or perhaps those 9 or fewer represent specific needs of the Academy in providing underrepresented needs. Women. Minority groups of color. Etc.</p>

<p>What's the point here. Being good, even great won't hack it once the candidate has, like you informed the Academy you have chosen, and it has been your choice, for whatever reasons, not to particpate in athletic competition. Your credentials are fine, very good. Not in any way uniquely exceptional though. Your scores are average. Your grades good but not great. Your rank is good. Your course work is seemingly light (when you translate your semester courses into Carnegie units, it remains unclear that you've taken the kind of load that most will have and is prescribed. But even if you have, the outcome is fine, not in any way exceptional.) BTW, your 32 ACT composite is not even considered. Only your math and verbals there. And the math weighs more heavily. As luck might have it, you're heavy on the Critical Reading, Writing sides. Not the preferred position.</p>

<p>So ... while as you've noted that you would see athletics as a monumental waste of time, I'd beg to differ. It will be critical for you to be competitive, imo. Unlike GoNavy, I do not view yours as a strong candidacy at present. But it can be enhanced, and I do not believe that will come by allowing debate or other issues to dissuade you from doing that which virtually every successful candidate is encouraged to do. </p>

<p>Lastly, know this. I'm your friend, not your adversary. You can and will do with my observations as you wish. But don't misinterpret hard tough "love" as anything other than that. Good luck. I hope you will prove me to be all wet or that I have nudged you to do that which you know you must.</p>

20

<p>Sim:</p>

<p>I grew up in York, Maine many moons ago...Ayuh. We only had two applicants appointed from Maine the year I was accepted, and the other guy had come from the Fleet as a sailor. Dubious distinction for me, I guess...</p>

<p>Anyway, I'm a Blue and Gold Officer in Virginia now, and have recently been through the admissions process with two of my own kids. One who got in right away, and one who was waitlisted (and finally appointed) both with pretty much an identical class records, SAT scores, ECA's and sports. So, I guess it depends as much on the year and the candidate pool as anything else.</p>

<p>Bottom line is that you have to be deemed qualified by the admissions board, and they use the "whole person multiple" which considers grades, scores, ECA's, sports, recommendations, etc. The actual formula seems to be a closely guarded secret - even we BGO's aren't privy to it, but it's pretty thorough. Your lack of sports won't necessarily kill your candidacy, but if another applicant from Maine has a better multiple, they will be ranked ahead of you. So, you can be completely qualified but not admitted because there are only so many places per state, as you undoubtedly know. </p>

<p>Hate to differ with WP, but based on the recent class profiles, your SAT's are very good and will not hurt you. High middle of the pack, in fact. Of course, and if you think you can do better, take them again and try to score higher.</p>

<p>WP is right about the sports thing. Not only is physical fitness a way of life at USNA and beyond, but participating in organized athletics shows that you can be a "team player" and perform under physical as well as mental stress. Not the same as being a member of a non-sports club. If you "detest running", you'd better learn to like it, or you'll be miserable - guaranteed. You'll be taking the PRT (physical readiness test) every semester at USNA and every six months or so in the Fleet once you graduate. It isn't a bad thing, it's just a reality.</p>

<p>Something to consider is that just because you earn a varsity letter doesn’t mean you’re in good shape. When we were doing our BGO training two years ago, the Cadre was asked by someone in our BGO class what we could do to help prepare incoming Plebes. To a person, they said, “Ensure that they are physically fit. The 2009 Plebes are not in great shape.” So, while I agree that organized athletics is important, a varsity letter and physical fitness don’t necessarily go hand in hand. If you can work out the ferry schedule and keep your grades up, I'd recommend that you consider playing a sport this winter - as much or more for the experience as for bolstering your candidacy. </p>

<p>The good news is that you were chosen for Summer Seminar. Anecdotally, I will tell you that they wouldn't have picked you up for Summer Seminar if they thought you were a definite "no". Success rate for appointment of Summer Seminar candidates is pretty high – again, that’s anecdotal from my limited observation, not official.</p>

<p>Keep the faith, and keep smiling. ;-)</p>