My child has gone crazy - advice needed

<p>I want to add that my daughter had an "online boyfriend" as well when she was a sophomore in HS. I tried to downplay it and treat her as responsible even though my heart was racing. I did have a talk with her about warning signs of a dangerous relationship, and I included stuff such as claiming undying love when they had never met, jealousy, extreme statements such as life wouldn't be living without her, being furious/desperate when she didn't get online at their prearranged time, etc. Meanwhile, I did a little research on the kid, and it turned out that he was, more or less, who he said he was. However, he did exhibit some of the warning signs of obsession and emotional manipulation, which she was equipped to recognize after our talk. Eventually, the relationship fizzled out.</p>

<p>That said, I know adults who met online, and who later married. They are still happily together. It can happen. You should not underestimate the power of the written word when it comes to the heart.</p>

<p>Hi Irishmomof2. I know this is in the parents forum and all that, but I was searching this site using my friends account and as a girl of a similar age to your D I felt I have to comment on this. Brace yourself, but this is going to be VERY LONG. And it sounds judgemental in the beginning, please just read it through to the end.</p>

<p>"D has always been a great kid, with a good head on her shoulders. She's always been self-motivated" etc. about all the school stuff.</p>

<p>And honestly this whole stage you're deeming as important is rather "typical" now-a-days. And after reading some of the responses that other parents gave you, a lot of which are tinted with the over protective cast of parent involvement, I feel I have to give you the level headed side of the teenage view, also due to the fact, a lot of the people on here seem to be blaming the "online boyfriend" as the problem.</p>

<p>Sorry, but I'm going to be blunt about this: Your daughter seems like she's lived a pretty sheltered life so far. Yes I realize from this post and your others that she does do things, like "travel to London" and act, but it all sounds like things where you, the parent, (not trying to blame you I'm just forming an opinion based on the information you provided), are involved in some aspect of it. It also sounds like she's been "academically sheltered" as well. You state she had a rough start in Calc and "a teacher who wasn't able to assist her in meaningful way". Personal tangent: I went from being litterally top in the class of middle school, to a very, very academically challenging high school, litterally ranked one of the top in the nation, that "embraces" the college style of learning where no one was there to baby me step by step. If I needed help and the teacher wouldn't help me, I would have to bunk down on my own and learn it or get a friend or tutor to help me when I couldn't. I know I'm relating my personal experience to hers, but since it sounds "similar" to mine (top of class in middle, to average in high school) so I think it's a legitimate situation. You guys sound like you've been to schools where the teacher was always there to help if she needed it, which is awesome, but it also makes you dependent in learning (and I know she went from average to highest in middle, which is EXACTLY what I did of my own motivation in middle school as well, after fifth grade I started to score higher than a lot of the eighth graders in the school and by the time seventh rolled around I was pulling 4.0's without a problem, while taking music, tutoring, doing professional dance (performing paid shows and doing national competitions), playing soccer, volunteering and being on student government throughout the years.) Let's just say I no longer to half those things, because highschool is COMPLETELY different from middle school, so comparing what she did in middle school to high school doesn't really fit, in my experience.</p>

<p>You know all the info about her, from academic to her social life. Also add in the drifting apart of friends. Which may also be why she likes WOW so much. She can be who she wants to be, and also make new friends, who if they ditch her, can easily be replaced by someone else. In my mind, it sounds like she aching for something she can do COMPLETELY on her own for a short while. And that seems like the perfect time college would come in, but from my experience, it is a giant step from living a comfortable life to being completely shoved into independence (college life), which is where WOW also fits the bill. She can be whoever she wants, however she wants, whenever, but do it all from the comfort of her own home.</p>

<p>"Through WOW, she met a guy who lives in Texas who is now her online boyfriend. Except he's 23 years old, and ever since she started online dating him, she's started scaling back her expectations for herself. "</p>

<p>It seems like you're blaming the whole thing on this boyfriend and while he may be a factor there are also the OTHER onslaught of disappointments that she had happen: bad grades, not getting the auditions, friends leaving. Subconciously she may be thinking "I've been working all these years, and this is the result"</p>

<p>And they might just had finally manifested themselves, since you state: " So things were mostly normal, although more subdued" Narrow minded response: Things are not "normal" if they're "subdued", they're "normal" if they're "normal"</p>

<p>Having all that happen, and then being expected to head off to college, seems like a rushed blow to me. Maybe she's re-evaluating her life, and learning what's important to her. Which also links in to:</p>

<p>"She went from wanting a career in research to thinking maybe she'd be an elementary school teacher." </p>

<p>In my opinion, that's not "scaling back" as you call it. Sure the PAY is less, but if she finds it more fufilling teaching kids rather than spending her time in a lab testing results and pushing papers, then GOOD FOR HER for finding out what she might ENJOY doing in life. There are so many options in the present day, and I stress, PRESENT DAY, not a few years back, not when (imagine next lines in the voice of a working adult) "When I was your age..." the PRESENT, that she can become. While job competition now is fierce, the oportunities are pretty damn endless. Who actually knows for sure what the want to do in high school? I know countless people who thought they knew, but it was either because they had a glamourized view of what the job was, or had their parents pushing them into that field. And I know a handful of adults in CC that are back to pursue a career that they were always interested in but just never thought was "good enough" to actually be a "respected" job.</p>

<p>"I think she may be depressed, and we went to the doctor about it. He recommended a therapist, but this therapist does not return our calls. D is adamant about not taking any medication."</p>

<p>I may stand alone in this, but I think it's good that your D is against the medication. In America, we're all given this "ideal" we have to live up to. I've noticed that a lot of people seem to expect to be happy all the time, and as soon as life throws them a hard ball, everything becomes out of wack, and it's enough to depress people, because they're not 100% content with their lives anymore. Don't live into that. I sound like a liberal "hippie" "fighting the man" but if you've been outside of the country (and though I grew up here I've been to a good number of other countries), you'll find that America in comparison holds this weird ideal that we deserve the best at all times. And it doesn't sound like you're D is completely depressed, though she may be from dealing with some disappointment she not accustomed to having.</p>

<p>About the boyfriend:</p>

<p>"He would like to prosecute this boyfriend since she's 17 years old"</p>

<p>He can't prosecute the boyfriend, sorry. Especially if she did tell him that she was older than she is. All the activity was over the internet, or perhaps phone as well? And you can only prosecute for an adult and minor on the grounds of physical contact/interaction, usually sexual, or IF the verbal interaction was sexual or degrading/threatening to her, but it sounds like it wasn't. Also as someone else stated 17 may be a legit age in your state, so you might want to check the laws.</p>

<p>I have to say though, I honestly commend you for being openminded about this whole thing, because a lot of parents seem to freak out about teens finding a significant other online. My friend was 17 when she met a guy online who was about 21, and the parents were openminded like you, they met, supervised, and started going out. He is honestly very sweet to her, treats her well, etc. and they're been together a long while and are happy still. Another friend of mine was 15 when she met a 17 year old online and they went out for about four years semi-long distance.
However, yes like the others say, do be careful because there are a lot of wack jobs online. </p>

<p>Also you don't state, but has she ever had a real relationship before?</p>

<p>And honestly, this might get you annoyed/angry because I'm "only a teen" and what would I know about parenting right?</p>

<p>But you state:</p>

<p>"As someone who did just that and is now in my 4th year of Community College, still several years away from a degree since I can only fit in 1 or 2 classes a semester at most, this made me furious."</p>

<p>Then refute it with: </p>

<p>"My parents were very forceful about what I could and could not do, even when I was 18, and I rebelled against them by moving in with the first guy who was interested in me. (That actually worked out quite well for me, but I know that is not the norm)."</p>

<p>Generalizing again, but from my observations parents always "want the best for their child" but somehow, a large part of what they consider "the best" is for their child " to have the things/opportunities" that they personally didn't have when they were growing up. </p>

<p>Which, while it is a sweet sentiment, doesn't always work out for the best, because hey, the kid is not the parent.</p>

<p>And it sounds like you want your daughter to "have what you didn't have":
opportunity to go to college full time, (while you took a few years off, and now are not stuck at CC.) </p>

<p>And to NOT getting involved with this guy and taking a risk, while you took it, and ended up loving it, which I'm assuming, is part of the reason why you're stuck at CC at well. (though I will say, moving in with a guy after not ACTUALLY knowing him by lots and lots of face to face interaction is a pretty bad idea, since the internet allows ppl to be who they want.) </p>

<p>Advice for you to "follow" if you really want to help D, but seem like you're letting her to decide. Make it seem like your taking her seriously with this plan:</p>

<p>Hit her with statistics. And information, lots of information. Plan it out. Find the info of the cost of living of where she wants to move, the rent, how hard it is to find a job. Tell her that is she does take these gap years, she better have a plan, because as hard as it is, I don't reccomend you helping too much, financially, if she does decide to move there. Stress the part where if she does take the years, she'll be the one working to live for them. It sounds like you take care of all her financial stuff, and while I'm still in high school, (about to graduate as well) when I had to take on the financial responsibilities, it completely blew my gap year plan out of the water. I learned it's a LOT harder to actually support yourself, then merely thinking it is. Especially on the salary that a non college grad gets, since I live in one of the areas with the highest cost of living.</p>

<p>Again hit her with the statistics: salary, rate of unemployment of non grads vs. people who go to college, what kinds of jobs are available to people with a degree vs. non degree. </p>

<p>Information is key, here, because last year, stubborn 17 year old that I was, as soon as my mother told me "well I think", stress the I part of those words, I completely just stopped listening. She can go against your opinion, but she'll have a tough time trying to prove the statistics wrong. It sounds like she THINKS she'll be spending the time during the year there hanging with the boy and playing WOW in her free time like she does now. Give her the information and she'll soon be informed that'll be a very small percentage of her time if she wants to get by decently. Especially if she wants to still do acting and music, where, outside of school life, costs $$ if she wants to pursue it. (That's also a good information to give her, the opportunities of her outside interests that would be available to her vs. not available to her in/out of college.)</p>

<p>Also, be realistic with her, most entry level jobs she'll be offered may not have health insurance, benefits, etc. Show her how much a hospital bill costs if there's an accident and how it can add up into debt. Show her that if you are in debt, how quickly the interest can build up, and how a ruined credit score can make car buying, house purchasing, etc, a lot harder in the future.</p>

<p>She sounds like a reasonable girl so you should tell her (to open her eyes on the subject) how much the cost will be for the year. Tell her if she is serious to make a plan sheet of how much a month will cost with the following factors to consider she might not even think about. Cause I know I sure as hell didn't :D </p>

<p>If she wants to pay rent she'll also have to pay water, electricity/gas, garbage, and heat bills.</p>

<p>If she wants a car she'll have to pay for gas, insurance, check ups, get if fixed if it's broken, tires, unexpected TICKETS.</p>

<p>If she wants a cell phone she have to pay for the plan. If she wants a "cuter" phone= more $$, texting = more $$ ringtones, games, internet, etc.</p>

<p>A computer she'll have to pay for the internet connection if she wants a good one, a printer, which also means the supplies: ink (which is $$) and paper.</p>

<p>Add that to the clothes, shoes, entertainment, food bill, whether she wants a TV, stereo, games systems, those kinds of things.</p>

<p>Does she wear glasses or contacts? Cause those cost a good amount of money if they need to be replaced.</p>

<p>Presumably a new bed and couch which costs a LOT of $$.</p>

<p>She'll have to buy new plates, cups, eating utensils, furniture to furnish, lamps, batteries, light bulbs, bandaids, soap, toothpaste, vitamins where ever she moves to she'll need all the little things. Things she probably doesn't realize, since they're so easily accessible at home. Make that monthly plan an assignment where she lists all the things she wants to have and the price of those things. And then see the difference between the wage she'll be making vs. the cost of it all.</p>

<p>Mention EVERY aspect to her. I was always a frugal kid, Ross and Walmart were my favorite stores, and thought I could handle it, but everything has all these little other parts that make the $$ add up. </p>

<p>And if she's as mature, as you state she is, I'm pretty sure she'll listen. If my mom had given all this information to me, then I probably would have straightened out, but I had to learn all of this on my own, since she believed in the whole thing about me making my own decisions in the long run.</p>

<p>And if she still wants to do it after all this, well tough love, but it is ultimately her decision. She's your kid yes, but she's her own person. </p>

<p>She'll be an adult legally, and you can't stop her. And she'll learn. It sounds like you learned from your experiences. So hopefully she will as well.</p>

<p>But hell, if you're deperate, you can fly the guy over and really have her check him out. Because it seems that meeting people online, you either love them, or hate them. Hey, there's slightly -small-teeny-tiny possibility you and your husband, may end up loving him. good luck!</p>

<p>Evilspork, what an incredibly thoughtful, articulate post. Thanks for taking the time to create it. You sound like quite an amazing young woman. </p>

<p>Now for my long post!</p>

<p>You're right, IMO, about many of the things you say and suggest -- for example, getting all the nuts-and-bolts info about every aspect of living on one's own because, as you point out, a kid can't argue with hard numbers the way s/he can argue with a parent! It was also wise of you to point out that deciding to be an elementary teacher is by no means, in and of itself, "scaling back” (and the fact that we might think so reflects negatively on society, not on Irishmom’s D). And you're also entirely correct in pointing out that lots of kids go through something comparable to what Irishmom's D is going through, and that a parent who tries too often to push her/his opinion on a kid is likely to find that the kid responds with nothing but instant (albeit temporary) deafness!</p>

<p>But I'm afraid I can't agree with you completely (and you probably wouldn't expect me or any other parent to do so!). Let me explain. Yes, Irishmom's D is not Irishmom, and she's not growing up when her mom grew up. Things are different for her, just as things were very different for us than they were for our parents. It's inevitable, and it’s a big part of each new generation coming into its own. But Irishmom’s D is not you, either. The things that you were ready – by virtue of innate personality and/or your upbringing – to do at 17 are not necessarily the same things she’s ready to do. You say that she seems to have been sheltered. Maybe that’s true, maybe it’s not. It’s often the case these days that parents are way more involved with their kids’ lives than parents of previous generations were, and that can indeed hold kids back from learning to assess situations and make decisions. Maybe Irishmom’s D and her parents can look back and say they shouldacouldawoulda done things differently. Maybe if they lived in some other country, they would have. But they live where they live, and they’re in this situation as the people they are, with the history they have as individuals and as a family. They can make decisions based only on that set of facts. What Irishmom sees is causing her concern. She has to make her judgments based on that. It’s not only her prerogative – it’s still, as long as her D is 17, her legal responsibility.</p>

<p>I truly believe that, at least at times, there’s no more difficult relationship on earth than that between a parent and a late-teenage child. At the risk of insulting evilspork or any other kid reading this, it’s a relationship that seems to me in many ways comparable to that between a parent and a toddler. In both cases, the child NEEDS to break away, to do things differently – it’s the only way to grow and become ready for all the next important sutff. In both cases, parents – good parents – react to this with a combination of excitement, pride, love and absolute dread. But to me the late teenage version is scarier, because what the child is ultimately doing is taking major steps to complete independence. The risks are extreme, and so are the ramifications.</p>

<p>I don’t mean to stray too far from the specific topic of Irishmom and her D, but I do want to quote an excerpt from a major study on the teenage brain that was conducted a couple of years ago:</p>

<p>“Impulse control, planning, and decisionmaking are largely prefrontal cortex functions that are still maturing during adolescence. Adult response to stimuli tends to be more intellectual, while teens’ is often more "from the gut." This suggests that while the changeability of the adolescent brain is well suited to meet the demands of teen life, guidance from adults are essential while this decision-making circuitry is being formed.</p>

<p>“The ability for the brain to plan, adapt to the social environment, and to imagine possible future consequences of action or to appropriately gauge their emotional significance, is still developing throughout adolescence.</p>

<p>“Brain functions that enhance teens’ ability to connect gut feelings with their ability to help retrieve memories, to put situations into context, and to remember past details about a situation that might be important, are also under major construction during adolescence.”</p>

<p>Over and out!</p>

<p>Similar situation in our famiy and this is what worked:</p>

<p>Talk therapy for D, we all decided on no medication.</p>

<p>Got in touch with on-line BF's parents to check him out. Also emailed BF directy to get a sense for him.</p>

<p>Were clear with D about our concerns and thoughts.</p>

<p>She broke up with BF who was mostly who he represented himself to be but was also controlling and a bit stalker-like.</p>

<p>My biggest concern is that you don't yet know much about him and have not taken an active interest. Imagine how much you would know about a local BF with whom she was this serious. You have to learn alot more ASAP. And, if my daughter's school is typical, no one over 21 can attend prom.</p>

<p>Kevin</p>

<p>Hacked onto my friend's account again, to respond to you artsymom. </p>

<p>"But I'm afraid I can't agree with you completely (and you probably wouldn't expect me or any other parent to do so!" </p>

<p>ahha I didn't expect many too, but I completely agree with you that she is not me and that they should see fit to try and solve the problem around their circumstances and particular situation.</p>

<p>"I truly believe that, at least at times, there?s no more difficult relationship on earth than that between a parent and a late-teenage child. At the risk of insulting evilspork or any other kid reading this, it?s a relationship that seems to me in many ways comparable to that between a parent and a toddler."</p>

<p>Oh no I don't think this is insulting, it's the absolute truth!!! And while right now, since I'm on the side of the teenager's perspective I can be relaxed about it, but I know as soon as I have a kid this age, I'll be pulling my hair out from the utter stress of it all. :D</p>

<p>So while I'm typing this I should also say, Irishmom I do think it's very sweet you're trying to help your daughter.</p>

<p>wow, ur D sounds like me, except im a S. A few months ago, my second year in a community college (business/econ major), I started questioning what this education was all for. I actually decided to start a music band or start my own business, but after telling my dad and mom, they convinced me to stay in my business major because it is a much 'safer' play. but now i realize that if i can be successful in my music band and business AND stick with school, I can prove them all wrong. I guess this is what drives me to study hard, proving to people that i can make it in the real world as well as in the academic world at the same time. and plus, if i did quit school, i would have no support from the parents.. as of now i have a 3.5+ cgpa and a member of 3 honors programs.</p>

<p>I haven't read all of the posts, but I'd like to weigh in here.</p>

<p>I did something very similar when I was a teenager, and I really, really regret what I did. </p>

<p>I often think of things my parents could have done to help me, and here is what I've come up with:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>DO NOT demonize the boyfriend. He is not the issue. Your daughter is. Don't bad mouth him. Encourage her to talk about him and give you more information. Tell her that you will happily go with her to visit Texas. You can hang out for a few days, meet him, etc. and she can get to see him in person. Try to be cooperative rather than confrontational. It sounds like you are doing a good job of this, but keep going. </p></li>
<li><p>Inspire her with other options. Summer in Ireland. A short vacation there perhaps? Other places in the world she might go? Things she wants to do? Think of trying to provide an alternative that beats this guy. Throw some money at this problem (in the form of vacations, books on travel, summer courses, etc.), if you can.</p></li>
<li><p>I do agree with the idea of prosecuting him. Just because you don't bad mouth him to her and you go to see him does not mean that you can't have this in the back of your mind. If you meet him and don't like him, I would go for it.</p></li>
<li><p>Always, always, always keep your door open. If she runs off at 18, keep in touch with her and let her know that she can always come back, that college will be there, Ireland will be there, that she can always get back on track. This will keep her from turning one bad decision into a set of compounding bad decisions. Even if she, for example, runs off with him, gets a job as a clerk, hates it, hates him, falls into a terrible crowd, goes to community college, and then comes crawling back, there is still redemption. Just let her know that you are there for her and that you will help her get back on track.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>In other words, the strategy is: love + knowledge. Love her and support her no matter what. Provide her with knowledge of her alternatives. And educate yourself about him, if possible.</p>