<p>My daughter is in her second year of pre-med (she's majoring in biology), and will be graduating next year at this time. (she overloaded her courses and had AP classes in HS and is why she can graduate early). I tried to get her to slow it down and take it easy, but she would have none of that. She is really driven. She graduated valedictorian of her HS class with a 4.0. She's made all As in her college courses. She is going to Africa on a study abroad program where they will help an MD with orphans this summer. She's doing research with one of her professors this coming semester, and also will be working part time with an oral surgeon. You would really think she has a great chance of getting into a med school, but I asked her WHAT if you don't get in, what are your options? She has 3 different routes she has thought about going: go to work in a field as close as to her major as possible, and reapply the next year. Or, pursue a PhD in biology or physics and maybe work in research.</p>
<p>I just know in my heart that all that potential will be reached in some worthy field and that she will be fulfilled in some way even if it is not medicine.</p>
<p>I'm wondering if all of you have a back up plan. I would love to hear about it.</p>
<p>salem, congrats to your D on such a good start. Everything looks good…except , IMO, for the “plan”. On many levels , the plan is ill-advised. </p>
<p>1) 3 years of undergrad is not considered as the equal of 4 years by medical schools.
2) Applying as a 20 or 21 year old is not considered a positive at many schools (in fact, many schools seem to prefer 23-25 y/o applicants over younger applicants).
3) 2 and 1/2 years of college EC’s are not the same as 3 and 1/2 years
4) taking the MCAT within this schedule is a problem in and of itself
5) The schedule loads (and possibly over-loads) required to pull this off will make her interview season problematic at best
6) The depth and breadth of college courses outside the required courses for the degree (and the pre-med requirements) will be unnecessarily limited, and some schools really want to see courses off the normal pre-med grid (and some even require them -USC).
7) Med school is tough everywhere and on everyone and will grind them down. Pacing is everything. She should arrive as fresh as possible.
8) Seeking an MS as gap plan adds little to the app and completing a PhD prior to med school rather than applying to usually generous MSTP programs might not be financially sound.</p>
<p>I say this as the father of a “similar” kid in a “similar” situation. And I had to rein her in, too (although she did insist on taking the MCAT after soph year). Lots of bucking, but I hung on till she “saw the light”. She has enjoyed her senior year and I can’t imagine how stressful it would have been for her to apply during junior year. Sure, she’ll have a mountain of credits but a very diverse background in coursework pretty far outside the norm. At many of her interviews the topics of conversation revolve around her courses in Chinese literature and comparative religion- rarely is biology mentioned. </p>
<p>But again, she can probably make her plan work for her. She can over-power all the negatives with a great MCAT and somebody will take her. No doubt. But, she’d have a lot more choices and maybe a better perspective slowing down. But all we can do is advise. Good luck to her with whatever she chooses.</p>
<p>If I hadn’t gotten in, I would have reapplied at the most 2 more times (while improving the app in the gap years). If unsuccessful, then I would have pursued PA school, then MPH, and lastly nursing or maybe a tech job. If all of those failed, I would have reconsidered going back to school and possible going back through an engineering program, hopefully for biomedical engineering.</p>
<p>I did research for 4 years in undergrad. No way could I see myself pursing a masters or phd in my major (biology). I like the procedural parts, but I wouldn’t want to write grants and teach classes if I couldn’t have time to also do the bench work. I guess I could pursue a position where all I do is bench work. But I’d rather do the above paths first.</p>
<p>curm, </p>
<p>Don’t most traditional applicants apply when they are 21 (junior) and enter med school when they are 22?</p>
<p>As an aside, I have a friend who is 20, applying, and has had no problem getting interviews (and acceptances) at top schools. Of course, that person did college in 4 years and has all the stats and ECs to match.</p>
<p>I appreciate your reply. All the things you have mentioned, I have thought about. I feel like she would do better to slow it down, enjoy herself, get into some other things in her studies and do a lot more ECs. But by gosh, I can’t rein that child in. She is so absolutely driven (and I do worry about that) that I just can’t talk her out of going full force. She always tells me, “Haven’t I always made good decisions? Please trust me now.” And I’m never in a position to argue this point. So the best I can do is talk to her and let her make her own decisions and let her learn from her mistakes and hopefully, I will be worried for nothing. I’m still so proud of her though.</p>
<p>Rather than the average (which should be around 23-25 years), I’d rather see the mode, which will be more telling of what age group has the most matriculants (or most applicants either way). I doubt too many schools list that data though.</p>
<p>OP, All we can do is advise and it appears you have done that. Just be sure she realizes that she will be competing against kids who have everything she has (the cake), and all the other stuff she doesn’t (the icing). BTW, I don’t often win at my house, either.</p>
<p>You can always show your daughter this thread! I’m sure if she saw our two cents she might reconsider. Besides, why does your daughter want to rush? Live your life and enjoy it!!</p>
<p>UCSF 73%
UNC 69%
UCSD 69%
Cornell-Weill 67%
Pitt 55%
Columbia 54%
Chicago 53%
Penn 52%
Emory 51%
Mount Sinai 50%
U of Washington 50%
Case 49%
UVa 48%
Yale 46%
Mayo 46%
Ohio State 41%
Harvard 40%
Hopkins 39%
Wash U 36%
Michigan 26%
Stanford 25%
Wisconsin 20%
Northwestern 14%
UCLA 10%
Southwestern 11%
Duke 9%
Baylor 7%.</p>
<p>Wow…your daughter scares me a bit. Are you guys saying she has a really good shot or a decent one? Because if she has a decent shot with all her ECs, 4.0…I’m probably really not going to get into med school compared to her.</p>
<p>1) OOS at schools that show preference to IS (and even most private schools do - some pretty dramatically)
2) Caucasian or Asian
3) applying as a "traditional’ </p>
<p>(And would like to have the option to attend a “top” research med school)</p>
<p>to these top 30 ranked US News “research” med schools, just how many slots are open to you in any particular year? </p>
<p>Now, make the student a 3 year graduate. Now add in any perceived “lightness” on the app. </p>
<p>Again, with a great MCAT, such a kid will get in somewhere with a broad application strategy, but why make it harder? Why not have the best app possible? The most choices possible?</p>
<p>To a certain extent, this is like undergrad merit scholarships. You gotta have all the groceries to get the big money scholarships and the hard stats aren’t everything.</p>
<p>"BTW, what program is your daughter going to Africa with? " It’s a study abroad program where they will assist an MD with African orphans. I really don’t know what kind of shot she has. She has a 4.0 and is in ECs, helping a professor with research, working with an oral surgeon, but being realistic, it’s hard as heck to get into any med school.</p>
<p>She’s gonna be fine unless she really bombs the MCAT and only aims for the top med-schools. </p>
<p>I don’t agree that “it’s hard as heck to get into any med school”. Some are A LOT easier than others. The only question is if she’d be happy to go to “any” med school. I don’t understand the rush though; it seems like a poor strategy, as curmudgeon pointed out. I wonder if she’s ever consulted with the premed advisor on this.</p>
I’m wondering the same thing. The OP has described her D as driven and ambitious. </p>
<p>And I’m not being harsh or mean, OP. I am trying to be persuasive as I feel she is making a grievous error that might have disastrous consequences. But, it may work out just fine. Still doesn’t make it right. Some school will likely take her after 3 years with a good MCAT. With a great MCAT and/or a lower-tiered school list I’d say its a “more than likely” chance of an acceptance. </p>
<p>From checking past postings it seems the OP’s kid is a resident of North Carolina and chose to attend a UG school somewhat off the typical pre-med radar screen over an affordable IS state school with a national reputation for excellence. She won’t get any lift from UG name. To the OP’s great credit she counseled her kid to attend the school with the better reputation.</p>
<p>Duke, UNC, Wake, Brody are the 4 IS schools. </p>
<p>MCAT - not taken
GPA - great so far
URM - No
EC’s - in process
Clinical exposure- in process
PS and Essays - unwritten
Age - Young
UG “Up” - No</p>
<p>Like I said to start the thread, congrats to her on a great start but…this is a 4 lap race. She’s on lap #2 and somehow thinks she can finish in 3. She needs to re-think her plan. Re-application is not a game strategy. It’s a Hail Mary. There are consequences. Play the game the right way and she won’t need a re-application. I agree with Sam Lee. She needs to go to her pre-med advisor and discuss the outcomes of similarly situated applicants from her school. As usual, this is JMO.</p>
<p>BTW, my D just read the thread (at my suggestion) and thought I was being “harsh”. I did not intend it that way and I apologize if my genuine concern was conveyed in a “harsh” way. Her words : “You’re right, Dad but if the kid has her mind made up, you’re pretty much screwed.” </p>
<p>BTW my kid also turned down the “wow” UG school over my objections and , as I said , also contemplated early graduation. (She was also the high school val, and is also very opinionated, ambitious, and driven. Maybe I was re-living the parenting adventures at my house, and again, I do apologize if I was too …“aggressive” in my argument. Occupational hazard and maybe just a little transference. ;))</p>
<p>Further edit: Gee. I hope my D doesn’t read some of my other posts on this BB. :eek: She may “divorce” me if she thought this was harsh.</p>
She has enjoyed her senior year and I can’t imagine how stressful it would have been for her to apply during junior year. Sure, she’ll have a mountain of credits but a very diverse background in coursework pretty far outside the norm. At many of her interviews the topics of conversation revolve around her courses in Chinese literature and comparative religion- rarely is biology mentioned. </p>
I’m still so proud of her though.</p>