<p>really segregated, and they told me to stay away. Is it true that people here generally segregate themselves according to race? that seems really antediluvian doesn't it?</p>
<p>I tried to broach a discussion of this many months ago on this forum, and the response from students who were posting was quite hostile toward me. I hope that this thread goes better, as last time I was seriously deterred from applying here.</p>
<p>I think self-segregation is something you see all over the world, not just at UNC. If you attend UNC, you can choose the kind of experience you want to have. If you want to have friends from all different backgrounds, you absolutely can. If you only want to hang out with people from your demographic, you can do that too (and I know several people who do). Still, I feel like UNC is really diverse compared to other schools in North Carolina.</p>
<p>That being said, the only time I have really seen self-segregation is in the dining hall - I would always eat dinner in Lenoir at a time when a big group of asian students would come to eat, and well, they pretty much only talked/ate with each other every single night. It was a sight!</p>
<p>No, UNC is not more self-segregated than any other school.</p>
<p>I suppose there are two questions here:</p>
<p>(1) is UNC Chapel Hill racially segregated?</p>
<p>(2) is it unusually segregated, compared to other schools?</p>
<p>The answer to (1), is definitely yes, and anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves to some extent. In the dining hall, and even in classrooms, the white, black, and latino kids tend to sit together. Not exclusively so, but they do cluster a lot more than you’d expect from a random statistical distribution.</p>
<p>But I don’t really think this has all that much to do with UNC Chapel Hill in particular. Remember that almost all (over 8 in 10) of the students come from North Carolina, and North Carolina is extremely economically and racially segregated: a lot of it is probably just pre-college segregation carrying over to undergraduate life. North Carolina is a southern state, after all, and the 1960s and the horrible oppression of blacks by whites was only a generation or two ago.</p>
<p>So in some ways you wouldn’t expect UNC Chapel Hill to be racially integrated anymore than you’d expect a university in South Africa to be racially integrated: the scars are too recent, and too deep. And the economic inequalities continue: NC has some of the poorest areas in the country.</p>
<p>I guess what I’m saying is that UNC Chapel Hill is not a racially diverse or integrated paradise, and anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves. On the other hand, I don’t think it has so much to do with the school as with the state.</p>
<p>One way the school is extremely homogeneous is with regard to nationality: there are hardly any international students here (people on exchange for a semester or a year not counting), and those there are tend to come almost exclusively from the same 5 or 6 countries.</p>
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<p>It really isn’t, not at all. I experienced more segregation at Syracuse (in New York) than I have down at UNC. UNC is one of the most tolerant universities of the country, and North Carolina today is nothing like North Carolina of the 1950s.</p>
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<p>This isn’t true either. North Carolina has some of the fastest-growing areas in the country, and the economies of most of its cities (Raleigh, Fayetteville, Charlotte) are quite strong and held up better than other areas during the recession. Comparing UNC to apartheid South Africa is ludicrous; it is nothing alike.</p>
<p>Anyways, self-segregation happens regardless of where a given university is located. Sometimes people (like international students) cluster together because they feel better that way, but it has nothing to do with UNC or North Carolina. It happens everywhere and it is no better or worse at UNC than it is anywhere else.</p>
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<p>Do you have any evidence for this claim? In any case, you’re missing the point. It’s not about tolerance/discrimination, but about (self-)segregation. </p>
<p>I agree that UNC Chapel Hill is a moderately tolerant place. But still, there is a large degree of segregation: look at the dining halls or classrooms.</p>
<p>A lot of it is self-segregation, but by no means all. Many of the fraternities and sororities, and the more ‘elite’ reaches of the social structure (fake castle, anyone?) are more or less explicitly whites-only. Aren’t they?</p>
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<p>Well that’s fine, because I didn’t. I compared the NC of the past to apartheid South Africa. I compared UNC Chapel Hill to a present-day South African university. Understand?</p>
<p>You’re right about having some middle-income areas (Raleigh, Fayetteville, Charlotte) whose areas have held up well. But NC also has some of the country’s poorest areas: some areas of Eastern NC and Appalachia are poor by anybody’s standards.</p>
<p>The stereotype that UNC Chapel Hill is racially segregated is one that I’ve heard several times, usually from people from outside the state who were surprised at the degree of self-segregation they found here. These stereotypes don’t usually start from nothing at all.</p>
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<p>Just my experience here.</p>
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<p>Right, but the key word here is self-segregation. If you are black (for example) and choose to associate primarily with black people, they will be receptive to you. If you are black and choose to associate primarily with white people, they will also be receptive to you. It is a matter of choice.</p>
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<p>Moderately is an understatement. UNC goes out of its way to be tolerant towards everything-right or wrong. The dining halls or classrooms aren’t really that segregated. Of course if you are black and you have another friend who is black, you might sit together. That doesn’t scream “Jim Crow” though. </p>
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<p>It still isn’t the same. Apartheid ended several decades after Jim Crow, so it is still more fresh in the minds of South Africans. Just look at all of the racial violence that is going on in South Africa right now; nothing of the sort is happening in NC.</p>
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<p>Right, but how many people come from Raleigh and Charlotte and how many come from Appalachia? The numbers are skewed towards the higher-income areas. </p>
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<p>Lots of OOSers have built-in prejudices that strongly influence their view of the South. When I told one of my friends at Syracuse that I was transferring to UNC, his immediate reaction was, “Why? You have way too many teeth to go to school down there.” These stereotypes are brought about by ignorance, usually.</p>
<p>Like I said, I went to school in the north before I came down to UNC, and there was no difference whatsoever in attitudes towards minorities or internationals. Both schools were equally tolerant and hospitable.</p>
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<p>A claim like “UNC is one of the most tolerant universities of the country” requires a whole lot of experience to back up: have you experienced most or all of the universities in the country? I think not.</p>
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<p>Yes, it is a matter of choice. But why are people here choosing to associate with others of the same colour? What do they have in common, besides skin colour? That people make that choice speaks to very deep divisions, I think.</p>
<p>You can understand why people would self-segregate by country: they share the same culture. You can understand why the few internationals here would hang out with each other: most people at UNC Chapel Hill are rather insular and poorly-travelled (except maybe a semester ‘study abroad’ vacation, and most not even that), and have little in common with people who live internationally.</p>
<p>But if people with different skin colours, but from the same state, feel the need to self-segregate, doesn’t that speak to deep divisions in that state?</p>
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<p>That stereotype may be based in outdated fact, but it is partially based in fact: the South has been and is very poor, and this has been reflected in poor dental standards in the past. You still have people pulling their own teeth in Appalachia, thanks to people’s poverty and America’s terrible medical system.</p>
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<p>Chapel Hill is known nationwide as “Berkeley-east.” There is a reason why the late Jesse Helms said that if North Carolina was going to build a zoo, it would be cheaper to “just put a fence around Chapel Hill.”</p>
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<p>They probably have a lot in common, actually. If you are a black kid from a poor, predominately black neighborhood, who are you going to feel more comfortable hanging out with? Probably people who have been there with you and know what you’ve gone through. If you are a black kid who grew up in a wealthy, predominately white neighborhood, you are more likely to hang out with people from that upper-class background regardless of their skin color. It is a matter of comfort. Nothing is enforced. </p>
<p>Like I said, I went to another university for a year and have visited my friends at other schools around the country. UNC is no different from any of these when it comes to self-segregation. The only segregation that UNC students have to worry about is self-imposed.</p>
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<p>In this paragraph you are agreeing with everything I’ve said. In North Carolina, neighbourhoods are pretty segregated. Black people tend to live in poor neighbourhoods and white people tend to live in rich neighbourhoods.</p>
<p>Bingo, you have self-segregation at UNC Chapel Hill that is more to do with the state than the university.</p>
<p>How is this different to my first post? Read what I said there:</p>
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<p>It sounds like you are agreeing with me?</p>
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<p>This is true for the most part, until black students try to join certain clubs or societies, or faternities/sororities. Then they will meet real discrimination. How many black people are in DKE?</p>
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<p>Because it isn’t specific to UNC or even to North Carolina; it happens everywhere. Why do you think historically-black universities are so popular? They draw people from all across the country, not just North Carolina.</p>
<p>I’ll admit that I skimmed the majority of this thread because my brain wanted to explode, but Cuse0507 is right on.</p>
<p>Nice point, well argued.</p>
<p>I’ll say what one of my Project Uplift counselors said after someone asked about diversity.
She said that although it is true that she hangs around more African American students because it really is human nature, that it doesn’t mean she’s not friends or can be with anyone else.</p>
<p>She said although Carolina has an INCLUSIVE environment doesn’t mean that it is EXCLUSIVE.</p>
<p>I’ll say what one of my Project Uplift counselors said after someone asked about diversity.
She said that although it is true that she hangs around more African American students because it really is human nature, that it doesn’t mean she’s not friends or can be with anyone else.</p>
<p>She said although Carolina has an INCLUSIVE environment doesn’t mean that it is EXCLUSIVE</p>
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<p>I don’t follow.</p>
<p>“She said that although it is true that she hangs around more African American students because it really is human nature”</p>
<p>human nature? i’m asian and irish 50/50 and where i live everyone mingles in one giant pool of humans. I don’t see why there would be reason for self-segregation to begin with. </p>
<p>and the comment on “Berkley of the east” Both of my older brothers go to Berkley and i visit there frequently. Let me just say that i doubt the validity of that statement. We should all just get along and be friends. We are all people, regardless of the past, socioeconomically speaking</p>
<p>Like just because she was black and hung around mostly African American people, didn’t mean she didn’t have other friends of different backgrounds. Being “inclusive” as in congregating with people from your own race but not “exclusive” as in not talking to or knowing other people.</p>
<p>@swineflu17 </p>
<p>you’ve also got to realize this is the south though.</p>