My parents require me to apply for at least two "top 20" schools - please help!

College Search & Selection
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<p>I'm a little emotionally wrecked right now. Here's my problem: My school only allows me to apply to six different schools. I have an ED just about confirmed (which I love) - Wellesley, and I have a safety - University of Sydney (I have an Australian passport and U of S is quite cheap).</p>

<p>Out of the remaining four, initially I was planning to decide upon 4 really good LACs that I love. I love the idea of a small, non-traditional college experience, with very tight professor-student relations and a climate that encourages students to co-operate together to really focus on learning. I was considering schools like Swarthmore, Amherst, Claremont Mckenna, Barnard etc. Once I told my parents, they were SHOCKED that I didn't apply to "at least one Ivy", and so after a lot of argument and hassle they're requiring me to apply to at least two US News ranked top 20 schools.</p>

<p>Many tears have been shed over this issue and they will. not. budge. So. In this case, some information about me:</p>

<p>My superscored SAT is 2210 (CR 800, M 710, W 700). My IB scores are decent (if I'm lucky a 37-8/42, or 40-41/45) but not stellar. I'll probably be aiming for something within the humanities or social sciences, but if possible will be applying undecided. If I had to choose a major right now I would choose something like International Relations / Polisci coupled with something else.</p>

<p>I have strong extra curricular interests - Started a Gay Straight Alliance at my school and ran an inter-school student activism conference, chair of student council, chair of an interschool debating organization that holds biannual charitable tournaments, captain of debating club, president of philosophy society, 4th place debater in the world at a prestigious international tournament, bunch of assorted charity work and awards, etc.</p>

<p>In a school, I'm looking for a relatively small school, that's safe and doesn't have much greek life or excessive college parties. It needs to be a very beautiful environment, and I would prefer the school to be relatively close to other universities that can thus intermingle. I would like a school that takes academics quite seriously, but also requires students to be creative and engaged in intellectualism. I want a school that cares a lot about its students and doesn't let anyone "slip through the cracks", and offers great internships and help to its students. These probably aren't fixed characteristics but are notes I've picked up upon during the rest of my research.</p>

<p>Given these details.. which of the top 20 schools listed below would match my interests most closely? Thank you all in advance!</p>

<p>For reference, the top 20 schools: Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, U of Chicago, MIT, Duke, Penn, Caltech, Dartmouth, John Hopkins, Northwestern, Washington U, Cornell, Brown, U of Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Rice, UC Berkeley.</p>

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<p>If you think about it, this may be a non-issue if I read your post correctly.</p>

<p>If you apply to Wellesley ED and get in, no other applications will be necessary. You might need to have them ready to go, but if you get in, you won’t submit them.</p>

<p>If you get outright rejected, your parents need to rethink the Ivy thing. Not that it’s 100%, but not getting in Wellesley kind of gives you a read that your Ivy chances aren’t that high. After all, Wellesley’s admit rate, especially ED but even RD, is way higher than many of the other schools you’re talking about. But I suspect you’ll be pretty much an ED lock with your scores and grades.</p>

<p>So, you can humor them with an Ivy pick or two knowing that you’re pretty much never going to have to submit it or if the worst happens, you can say “Look, I only have four more choices, I can’t waste them on longshots.” </p>

<p>That logic may work even if you have to apply before you hear back from Wellesley. It’s one thing to force a kid to apply to an Ivy when they don’t want to and you humor them because it only takes a little time to write the essays, but they’re insisting you waste a third of your limited applications to schools you may have little chance at and don’t seem to want to attend. That hardly seems fair. By the same token, a rejection for Wellesley may also mean you should rethink your applications to Swarthmore and Amherst, as those would suddenly seem like longshots as well.</p>

<p>In short, your best bet may be to wait on the Wellesley decision and then reevaluate if you have to - things may look different for everyone if that’s not positive.</p>

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<p>Tell your parents that Amherst and Swarthmore are Ivy-equivalents (in fact, HYPSM-equivalents) by alumni achievements, that they are ignoramuses for not realizing that (that people who hire in the real world in the US certainly know that and think they are ignorant and uneducated), and that the only reason Amherst and Swarthmore aren’t in the top 20 of USNew’s list of <em>research</em>universities_ is because they are not research universities, but that in Forbes’ ranking of colleges (which combines RUs and LACs in to one list), Amherst and Swarthmore are definitely in the top 20.</p>

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<p>How about the top 20 LACs? Or the top 20 schools based on average SAT scores of admitted students? Or the top 20 based on the SAT score of students in the 75th percentile? Or the top 20 based on the number of graduates who go on to post-graduate education? The top 20 for student happiness? The best professors? Highest graduate income? There are lots of ways of looking at this. If you define top 20 to include colleges, rather than just universities, maybe you can make you and your parents happy. </p>

<p>To answer your question though: what activities do you want to do outside school? You can narrow down the schools based partly on those criteria. E.g. not all the schools have all the types of debate.</p>

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<p>" My school only allows me to apply to six different schools. "

  • NOBODY can limit the number of schools that you are applying, you may as well apply to every school in a world if you wishes so. We are not there yet, it may come soon, but not yet.<br>
    And why you wouldn’t just do whatever your parents what you to do, if they want to waste application money, why not? Then, apply to 100 more if you wish. If you are not financially independent, nothing else you can do, there is absolutely no tragedy in your situation whatsoeve, you need to sit down, breath deep and go spend time with friends, you have no responsibilities at this point, enjoy, it will not last forever, much much MUCH more stressful times are ahead in your very young life. Have a cookie and say : “I love you, mom and dad forever and ever, you gave me everything and I am eternally grateful”</p>
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<p>Brown and U of Chicago.</p>

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<p>MiamiDAP, There are schools that refuse to give services to more than X college apps. Trying to get that policy moved is very difficult and sometimes not possible in the time frame of student applications and deadlines. I’ve not run up against such policies, but I’ve seen them and it can be a bear to fight. </p>

<p>OP, if your parents won’t budge, pick Dartmouth and Brown. Then very carefully pick your next two schools so that they are good matches. You’ll have plenty of reaches. If you get accepted ED to Wellesley, you are done. If not, and get accepted to Wellesley RD along with the other LACs you picked, would your parents let you go to any of those if you also got into Dartmouth and Brown? Not sure why they are configuring their rules the way they are, but the golden rules hold, and if you can’t get them budge on this, you are stuck with those rules.</p>

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<p>The idiotic thing is, Dartmouth is essentially a LAC with some professional schools.</p>

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<p>I would recommend Princeton instead of Dartmouth, and would second the recommendation for Brown or U. of Chicago. Princeton is very focused on undergraduate education and does not have professional schools. It is the most similar to an LAC IMO. Of course, it is extremely difficult to get in.</p>

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<p>Ask your parents to explain to your high school that you will need to apply to more than six schools.</p>

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<p>A lot of good advice here already. </p>

<p>I agree that I might show them that there is a USNWR ranking of LACs. LACs and universities are equally good and are just different sizes/experiences. My S loved his mid-sized university and my D who wanted to go to a LAC is having a fantastic experience as well. It is a matter of personal preference rather than one being better than another.
<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I also think that if you don’t get into Wellesley ED you sit with them and compare the stats of Wellesley versus the top 20 schools and maybe they will see that it is better just to use one longshot instead of two. Perhaps get your guidance counselor involved and ask him/her to talk to your parents. And you can delay applying to more schools until you hear back from Wellesley.</p>

<p>You may also want to confirm with guidance that you can only apply to 6 schools in total. I understand that some schools have limits, but six sounds very low. Ask if exceptions can be made.</p>

<p>If you do need to pick schools, I’d also opt for some combination of Yale, Brown and UChicago from that group.</p>

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<p>@MiamiDAP yes they can. Some high schools will refuse to send transcripts to more than a certain number of colleges. You can’t apply to any more because your school won’t submit the required school documents.</p>

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<p>Are you in the US or are you in Australia? If you are in the US (or at a US-style high school elsewhere) what is your GPA? How much can your parents pay for your education? If they are expecting you to apply for financial aid, have you run the Net Price Calculator at each of the websites to verify that it is likely that the aid will make that place affrordable?</p>

<p>Right now you see U of Sydney as a safety, but unless you know for dead certain that they admit by the numbers, and that your numbers will guarantee you admission, you should pin down a true safety for yourself. Go to the Financial Aid Forum, and read through the threads on guaranteed merit-based aid. If your GPA matches your SAT and IB score ranges, there probably is at least one place where you are guaranteed admission along with a nice big merit-aid package.</p>

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<p>You most likely would want to exclude Caltech and MIT since they are not good choices for someone with your likely major. And UC Berkeley as a large public, albeit exceptional university, is not a likely match for someone looking for a tight professor-student relationship. Your goal of proximity to other major universities excludes Cornell, Dartmouth, and probably Washington U, Notre Dame and Rice. All the top 20 universities would provide you with an exceptional college experience.</p>

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<p>If it’s a famous NYC exam school, the limit has survived for at least 30 years and it’s probably easier to get Harvard to double in size than to get those schools where 100% of the people go to college to agree to process more than 6 applications. </p>

<p>I think that your original list was fine and well thought out. Barnard is part of Columbia University which is a bona fide ivy. Milk it. </p>

<p>Also, your top 20 list excludes the liberal arts colleges. Clearly Wellesley, Amherst and Swarthmore are more prestigious than U of Notre Dame or Berkeley. Clearly if they did an inclusive top 20, those 3 would be on it. </p>

<p>Your top 20 requirement is ludicrous. For Amherst and Swarthmore, you can just look at the admissions rates if you want proof. For Wellesley, cut the admissions rate in half to be fair since they’ve excluded half the population to start with. </p>

<p>I would pick a safety in the US because the liberal arts education is an American construct. How much can your parents afford to pay if you had to pay list price. If you’re in NY, can you apply to SUNY Genseo?</p>

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<p>Not to be debbie-downer, OP, but how are you going to pay for any of these colleges? what are your needs in terms of FA? have you run the net price calculators and shown the results to mom and dad? are you a US citizen or permanent resident?</p>

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<p>Prestige is a regional measure, @ClassicRockerDad‌. Maybe in the Northeast, those LACs you mentioned are considered more prestigious than Cal or ND, but that certainly wouldn’t be true in the Midwest or CA.</p>

<p>In any case, by my favorite metric (of alumni achievements), Cal trails Swarthmore and Amherst but is on the same tier as Wellesley. All are Ivy-equivalents. ND is just outside the Ivy group and is about as good as them in terms of professional achievements but trails in the academic achievement categories (very similar to Georgetown, UMich, UVa, USMA, and USNA in that respect).</p>

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<p>Maybe obvious, but US News has rankings for universities separate from rankings for LACs. Your parents seem to assume that the 20th best university is a “better school” than the #1 ranked LAC. Which is ludicrous. </p>

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<p>Point taken. No offense intended. </p>

<p>I have to remember that I live in the “Hub of the Universe”. </p>

<p>On the other hand, we’re trying to help the OP, so just go with it for now. </p>

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<p>First, ask them which ranking you are to use or volunteer to come up with your own formula. Because there are different ways to define what constitutes a top-20 school.</p>

<p>What is more important to you: average class size or the variety of classes and majors? </p>

<p>That is just one question you should tackle when coming up with your personal rankings, because a great many schools could do a great job of educating you.</p>