Naive and unprepared in CA

Paying for College
1

<p>Fishing for help on ideas on how to pay for college for my twin daughters. We screwed up and did not save enough -- or at all -- when we should have. I thought we'd be eligible for federal and state grants, work study, etc., since we live simply and don't make a lot of money for where we are located (obviously not taken into account in the FAFSA...). </p>

<p>EFC is $12,204 for each. There is absolutely NO WAY we can pay $24k per year for college.</p>

<p>We are in CA. I am a research scientist and make $84k/year. Husband is a part-time college instructor who made about $16k/year. We are both approaching retirement age (but don't really ever expect to able to retire).</p>

<p>Husband was unemployed for 9 months of 2010 but received unemployment. His benefits have run out. FAFSA was based on last year's income (which included $10k in unemployment benefits). Any chance of getting the EFC any lower if we bring up the fact that our income dropped about $6k last year and now another $10k in FY11? </p>

<p>D1 was accepted to OOS state school, got a WUE award (worth about $40k over 4 years), and (I think) a $20K achievement award ($5k for each of 4 years). I'm not sure if she will be offered anything else--have not received financial aid letter yet. Also not sure if that $20k will be rescinded after getting the WUE award. COA for first year will be $27K for non-resident. If they use the EFC of $12,204, then they may be done with offers of gift awards.</p>

<p>D2 was accepted to local state school. We are not eligible for Cal Grants. She was offered $5500 max in subsidized and unsubsidized federal direct loans and parentPlus loan for $19k as a financial aid package. COA for first year will be $24.5k In other words, no aid (except for the lower interest rates).</p>

<p>Both girls are applying for private scholarships. D1 has a better chance at merit scholarships than D2. </p>

<p>We can pay $16k for the first year for both, even if husband doesn't find a job any time soon. But that leaves a $4k gap at D1's OOS school (if achievement scholarship is still valid) and $16.5k at D2's 'affordable' local state school. </p>

<p>If D1 is offered federal direct loans (sub and unsub) for $4K, that would work for her, for first year.</p>

<p>But for D2, she'd have to borrow $5500/year and we'd have to borrow $11,000 (!) just for year one -- this is too much, right?</p>

<p>I can't even think about racking up this sort of debt while husband is unemployed. Our savings are gone due to the length of time he's been out of work. COAs are increasing at both schools every year (local state school tuition has increased ~$2200 in last 4 years). Not sure if WUE will be available to 2nd, 3rd, 4th year undergrads. Neither school is super-outstanding, just average state schools. Are they worth going into major debt for? Is there anything else to be done besides </p>

<p>1) trying to talk to schools (or ??) about decreasing EFC and/or offering other aid?</p>

<p>2) private scholarships?</p>

<p>3) crushing all our dreams and theirs by asking daughters to forget about going to college?</p>

<p>It's very late in the game to be realizing that this may be impossible to pull off and I feel like a horrible parent for not having prepared or informed myself properly.
:-(</p>

2

<p>You said that your younger d. was accepted at the “local” state public - is that a UC or CSU? How “local”? Can she live at home and commute? The bulk of the COA is room & board. </p>

<p>The FAFSA is based on last year’s income and nothing can change that. Financial aid departments can use “professional judgment” to make adjustments based on special circumstances… but I don’t think it will help at the in-state public, as they have offered no grant aid even though the COA is twice the EFC – so probably they don’t have money to give.</p>

<p>The OOS school doesn’t have to meet FAFSA EFC – so even with them, an adjustment to the EFC probably won’t help.</p>

<p>There is one possibility, however: try to get in touch with financial aid staff at each school to determine whether they calculated financial aid based on the sibling attending college. With both kids entering college at the same time, they may treating each daughter as if she was the only kid in college (doubling your EFC to $24,000) – but they may adjust that once they receive proof of enrollment from the sibling’s college. </p>

<p>That happened to me – my daughter was entering college as a freshman the same year that my son was vacillating over whether he would return to college as a transfer. Fortunately he did return … and I had filled out the FAFSA as if he would be in school – but I know that my daughter’s college gave us an award as if he wasn’t. The award was very confusing so I called to ask about it, and they explained that our grant would be increased in the fall if & when they received proof of my son’s enrollment and the COA of the school he was attending. So it may be that the awards you are seeing aren’t quite the last word.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for your comments, calmom. </p>

<p>D2 was accepted to a CSU. It’s about an hour drive. She’s wanting the on-campus, living-in-a-dorm experience but that may not be possible at this point.</p>

<p>The CSU shows our EFC as $12,204 in the financial aid package so that may be the last word there. </p>

<p>Still waiting for the official financial aid summary from the OOS school. I’m going to call tomorrow as I feel we really need to work something out very soon – or withdraw.</p>

<p>The thing about private scholarships is that decisions may not be forthcoming until summer and we really can’t count on them to significantly help our situation…</p>

4

<p>The WUE scholarships are for 4 years. My daughter received one as well. It brought the cost down to comparable to a CA state University since it was U of Montana and their housing is so much less…</p>

5

<p>Are these private scholarships only for one year? Most are. If so, they’re not a solution if they are needed to help pay for all 4 years of college.</p>

<p>Average state schools are not worth big debt. </p>

<p>Did D1 also apply to any Cal States as well?</p>

<p>We can pay $16k for the first year for both</p>

<p>Are you saying that you can pay $8k each?</p>

<p>*D1 was accepted to OOS state school, got a WUE award (worth about $40k over 4 years), and (I think) a $20K achievement award ($5k for each of 4 years). I’m not sure if she will be offered anything else–have not received financial aid letter yet. Also not sure if that $20k will be rescinded after getting the WUE award. COA for first year will be $27K for non-resident. If they use the EFC of $12,204, then they may be done with offers of gift awards.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>OOS publics generally do not give need-based aid to OOS students other than fed aid if qualified. </p>

<p>Your D1 can borrow up to 5500, so that 4000 is not her max. </p>

<p>It looks like she’s been given $15k per year (is that right?) If the COA is $27k, does that include personal expenses and travel? Or is that just tuition, room, board, books? If her costs after her scholarships is $12k, then your contribution and a 5500 loan for D1 should cover all costs. </p>

<p>Will it be ok if you tell D2 she has to commute while the other twin gets to go away?</p>

<p>Since D2’s school is an hour away, she probably should live on campus the first year.</p>

<p>However, if none of this is affordable, then they may have to do a CC for 2 years and then transfer. </p>

<p>Your H is only working part-time. Can he get a second job part-time somewhere to bring in more money? Summer is approaching…some places need more workers in the summer. </p>

<p>Can your D’s work over the summer to bring in some money? Can they also work part-time during the school year?</p>

<p>you can be on a payment plan at their schools, which might help.</p>

6

<p>It’s a tough situation and I sympathize. Unless a merit award comes through to bail out your daughters’ costs, the answer is that they should commute to local state schools. When we set up our college list for our son, we showed him clearly what the cost would be for him to commute to local state schools. We could afford to pay for that and cover his living expenses including car costs. The next cheapest choice was to go away to a state school. In our case, we would be able to cover room and board for him, but he would have to pay for his other expenses which he is capable of doing with his savings, summer employment and probably working a part time job during the school year. The car would make it tight. The other affordable option are some private local colleges. With some stretching, borrowing and , again, his taking on some of the expenses, he could commute to some local schools. Some merit awards would sweeten that deal and make it even easier to do. </p>

<p>Going away to a full cost private school is not affordable. That option is doable only for low cost OOS school or with merit money. Those are the choices my son faces.</p>

<p>In your case, room and board does not look affordable this year. Your girls need to commute to school to make their education possible. You can discuss the situation with some of the school who may use professional judgment to increase some awards due to your husbands unemployment status right now, but truly funds are short every where, and you should have a financial safety plan set up in case no further merit awards arrive and no additional funds are awarded. Hopefully something does happen and that plan is not needed . My son was surprised with a merit award letter from a school he really was not considering and that has catapulted it to the top of his “bird in hand” list, This was an unexpected happening, and something like that could still occur with your girls. But had this not occurred, the school was off the decision slate.</p>

7

<p>You should consider the community college route. In California, they’re generally of quite high quality, and they’re still ridiculously cheap. I saved tens of thousands of dollars by living at home and commuting two miles to my local CC for my lower-division courses. So much of the COA for California state schools is the cost of living, it doesn’t make sense to rent a crummy dorm room for the same price as a decent apartment elsewhere. I transferred to an OOS flagship on WUE tuition and got the “away from home” college experience then. By doing so, I was able to hold my undergraduate debt to a manageable $15,000. Almost every WUE school accepts transfers into the program - I think Oregon State is the only exception.</p>

8

<p>How close is the nearest community college? Can they commute? Tuition fees at CCCs are very cheap and both daughters would save money by living at home for those first two years.</p>

<p>If your daughters make top grades at a CCC, they can later transfer to a great UC or CSU. In the meantime, I suggest also that the daughters get part-time jobs during the school year while at the CCC and work fulltime in the summers and save all of the money for when they transfer. </p>

<p>There are many families in your same kind of situation. The “solution” is often a gap year or utilizing a local CCC.</p>

<p>PS - Yes, if you have zero personal savings for emergencies, it is insane for a parent to take out 11K loan for the child’s college.</p>

9

<p>I would agree that community colleges might be a good choice. While your D’s may be upset with this option, going away may not be an option at this point. You are correct in that you don’t want to rack up debt when your husband is out of work, especially if you are nearing retirement age. Here in California, we have some wonderful community colleges. If they stay for college in CA, they should earn an IGETC to insure they take all of the classes necessary to transfer to a CSU or UC. If they are planning on transferring to an OOS school, then they might want an AA degree, or get the entrance requirements for the school to which they want to transfer. It is a really tough situation, but they would still get the college experience when they transfer. Good luck!</p>

10

<p>I’m glad that you are looking at the numbers and the ramifications of taking out loans. A lot of parents do it as a matter of course. If they qualify, why not take the loans? Not a smart idea if you are already have financial issues. I know it hurts to tell kids that going away to school is not doable financially, but if that is the truth, it’s better that it’s out there. Hopefully, in two years, things will be such that they can finish up on campus. Even if loans are taken, it is far less to finance 2 years than 4, especially in your case with the X2.</p>

11

<p>

</p>

<p>Is your husband teaching at a private college that offers free tuition to children who attend, by any chance? Would that be an option for the first 2 years?</p>

<p>Also, look carefully at each college’s COA calculation. I know for CSUs, the COA is fairly conservative i.e. it includes a lot of $$s for books, transportation and misc that a savvy student can economize on. Living off campus in a student apartment might approximate the “college experience” in some college towns, and can save thousands per year over the high cost of on-campus room & board. My son is at a CSU and his total cost will be about $5000 less than the published COA this year due to these strategies.</p>

12

<p>It sounds to me like you have to decide whether you are comfortable having one dd go away and the other not. </p>

<p>This is the way I’m reading the figures:</p>

<p>You have $8K per year per daughter.

  • One dd- The WUE package seems to leave you with over $12K to pay-- if your dd takes a $5500 loan, you could cover the rest with the $8K per year. She should get a summer job for her incidentals.
  • Other dd- Your other dd hasn’t received any scholarships to bring costs down to where you can afford. I don’t know the instate costs of Cal States off-hand but it sounds like it would be affordable without loans if she lived at home for 2 years. Of course, she may decide just to attend the nearby cc for 2 years in that case. I would consider this: If she attends the Cal State for 2 years, I would pay the $8K out-of-pocket but might have her take out the $5500 loan the first 2 years and put it in the bank (since you are not eligible for need-based aid, it shouldn’t hurt you) and use that money, along with the loans from the last 2 years, to fund her room and board for the final 2 years. Of course, if finances improve or the situation changes, she wouldn’t have to take out the loans in the last 2 years but that gives you the $ for room and board at the lower Stafford rate instead of the PLUS rate. If, instead, she chose to stay at a cc, I think I would offer to put the difference between cc cost and $8K in the bank for her to use for room and board the final 2 years. She should also expect to take summer jobs for incidental expenses.</p>
13

<p>I have to agree with the CCC many have suggested. Our entire system is designed to transfer well-prepared students to four-year universities. Many of my instructors at my CCCs also taught at local CSUs and UCs. The best part? I have found that the CCC professors (even the ones teaching concurrently at four-year universities) are far more accessible than most of my UC professors.</p>

<p>The money savings is incredible. This lower cost also allows one to explore more classes without worry. I would not have traded my learning experience at my CCCs for anything.</p>

<p>However, one should go in with somewhat of a rough idea what they might like to do. I say this because there are some majors to transfer into that IGETC is not appropriate due to the number of prereq classes required. Also, if one wants to transfer within two years it is best to have a clear direction of what classes to take.</p>

<p>If money is such an issue and you want to (and should) avoid large loans, then the CCC to four-year transfer option is probably your best bet. No college is worth significant debt.</p>

14

<p>I also think the CC idea is an excellent one; there are so many expenses that we need to remember, too – textbooks can easily be $500 or $600 a semester; clothing and shoes and all that good stuff; haircuts, prescriptions; car, gas, etc. if the kid drives to school; cell phone and computer costs; various activities that require fees (soccer team uniforms, club activities, athletic supplies); money for lunches away from home; even my DD’s volunteer work costs. </p>

<p>And of course, going away to school involves paying for travel to and from on vacations and holidays and summers.</p>

<p>In two years (or less, if they go to summer school!), the girls can transfer to a four year school. Even if you have to borrow some of that money, it will be less than borrowing for four, as others here have noted. </p>

<p>BUT – as someone else suggested, MAKE SURE the EFC is based on two children in college, not ONE!!!</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

15

<p>Seismomom, I don’t have a solution but I am sorry about your situation. If I remember correctly you were worried your one daughter wouldn’t be accepted at any of the state schools she applied to and now that she has an acceptance and might not be able to go is very sad.</p>

<p>I hope you are able to work something out that will be financially possible for both your girls. It would be hard to tell one twin she couldn’t go away to school but that her sister could.</p>

16

<p>Is it possible for the younger daughter to make alternative (less expensive) living arrangements to attend the CSU? For example, does she have any friends living in the area who could rent her a room for a nominal rate – or perhaps she could make an arrangement such as taking a room in exchange for babysitting services or something similar. I think that if you could figure out the housing part, her tuition would be manageable for you – and maybe she can get a part-time job to help with expenses along the way. </p>

<p>You said the school is an hour away and you are in the bay area – is it Sonoma State? I am not sure if you would be comfortable with this for your 18 year old daughter, but Craigslist can be a valuable resource to find shared housing with other students – it worked out very well for my son at a different CSU, but he was older at the time.</p>

17

<p>“It would be hard to tell one twin she couldn’t go away to school but that her sister could.”</p>

<p>While I agree that it would be hard, I think if one d has much significantly grades than the other, it could happen and I personally wouldn’t hold back the one who earned the higher grades. I think it would be reasonable to say, “We can afford up to $8K a year for each of you and expect you to take out loans and work summers.” After all, that really is what you can do. </p>

<p>I agree with calmom that the housing is probably the issue. The only other solution I could think of was if the girls had applied to a college where they could both live off-campus, they may have been able to decrease room and board-- but I don’t know how possible that is in California.</p>

18

<p>CSUs typically require first-year students to live on campus and purchase the meal plan. It’s very expensive, around $10,000/year for room and board. There may be a way to opt out. For years 2-4 alternate living arrangements can definitely be found that will save thousands per year.</p>

19

<p>Hi all. Thanks so much for the advice, suggestions, sympathy, and support. Where to begin…</p>

<p>Husband is <em>still</em> unemployed (1.5 years now), not working part-time – he was teaching at a community college and they have eliminated his entire department (physical education). I think discounts or free tuition for children of faculty or staff have gone the way of the dodo bird–they just don’t happen any more, at least not at CA public schools.</p>

<p>D2 has been working part-time for over a year teaching gymnastics but just makes enough for gas and coffee now and then. D1 has a camp counseling job lined up for summer and both plan to work while in school (though neither qualify for work-study so I hope they’ll be able to find jobs close to campus). I figure the most they could make at minimum wage at not more than 25 hrs/wk is about $5400 yr. </p>

<p>The CSU in question is SFSU which has the highest housing rates of all CSUs, of course (up to $14k/year). I, too, thought that freshmen were required to live on campus but not at SFSU–they don’t have enough housing to accommodate all the freshmen. But SF rents are also expensive (though cheaper than the dorms especially if you’re frugal with the food budget). </p>

<p>D2 (she is only 2 minutes younger, by the way, but how did you know, calmom? :wink: ) is seriously considering community college for 2 years, then transferring to UCSC which was her 1st choice but she was rejected. This is a huge step for her as she feels CCs are only slightly modified high schools and did not want to go that route at all. Problem is she thinks she can still move away from home and live inexpensively and save money but I’m not convinced it would be much cheaper than the CSU! You are all correct that living at home and attending a nearby CC is the best financial option. We have some research to do.</p>

<p>I learned that D1 won’t get info on her OOS financial aid until mid-April but talked to an advisor who said that they are considering the fact we’ll have 2 in college and learned she will only get the WUE, not the $20k achievement award (they give the one with most value but not both). That still brings COA from $30k to $20k per year, which is good but still means student loans and parentPlus loans. She really has her heart set on going to this school and I would love to make it work – but at the cost of D2’s future and chances, too??</p>

<p>Kender, both girls know exactly what they want to do. D2 wants to be an optometrist and had planned her curriculum at UCSC for every semester to make sure it all articulated with UCB School of Optometry requirements and taking the OAT test her junior year, etc. I’m seeing her resolve crumble a little as all these roadblocks are set before her. At the same time, she wants her sister to go OOS and take advantage of her merit award and is willing to step back on her own plans. My heart is breaking.</p>

<p>I remember always cutting their peanut butter sandwiches so that they were <em>exactly</em> equal in size and shape, trying desperately to be fair to each. This situation is killing me.</p>

<p>D1 wants to study paleontology and has been accepted to one of 3 of the only undergrad paleontology programs in the US. She wants to minor in art and perhaps get into scientific illustration/animation. She has dreams of doing digs/research in China or wherever the fossils lead her and working in a natural history museum, which also means grad school.</p>

<p>I know, champagne taste on a beer budget, huh? </p>

<p>Thanks again for all the comments!</p>

20

<p>

LOL… I think I just inferred that she was “younger” because she was the #2 d.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Keep in mind that they are two different people. I don’t know if they are identical or fraternal, but this is a time for them to each strike out on their own. So while it is true that it feels hard to be giving more to one twin than the other financially, their situations are different now.</p>

<p>In a way, D2 might be better off doing the cc –> UCSC route, as there are a lot of cutbacks at the CSU’s now, so SF State might prove to be a frustrating environment for her. </p>

<p>I know it’s tough for you… but your daughters know their dad is unemployed, so I think they must realize that you simply aren’t in a position right now to spend a lot of money on college.</p>