“That means at least they have not really heard what UChicago is about. At a minimum not heard of rankings, admission rates”
You hit the nail with this point, that is EXACTLY the problem. Most have a vauge idea that UChicago is a “good” school whatever that means. I would say 2 out of 20 college educated people realize it is top 5 or even top 10. I unscientifically base this is on the 100 people who asked where I was going and most did not have the “reaction” as I call it. This underscores the 10 or so people who did. As others have experienced, when it happens you realize it. Otherwise most of the time when you could have said URochester or Brandeis and gotten the same reaction you realize it too. I am sure most people who say Stanford or even Columbia (fellow number 4 schools) do get the “reaction.”
I did not study the US News rankings before applying so even I did not realize, I assumed it was around number 12-15. My dad is very well versed in schools, my stats were decent but had a couple weak points. We knew I had to apply to a range. So ranking was important but not everything. I based final application decisions on visits.
“Common Application makes it easy to apply for more schools but it does not make schools known to general public. When you applied to UChicago did you know it was a good school or just another U in a city?”
I started off this thread saying my cousin went there. Our families are VERY close. I am quite well versed in the UChicago of 1985 not so much in the UChicago of 2015. UChicago only joined the Common App in 2010, so the first class just graduated. There are people who do not apply to MIT because you have to retype your information, put in all your classes etc. It is torture. I probably would not have done that for UChicago since I was not confident about getting in, and I was not sure about certain aspects such as the whole fun aspect. I do want fun in my college. It sounds like with the new dorm and the different types of applicants that the common app reachers and the change in leadership that this problem is disappearing. Since 2010 application numbers have multiplied. So that is correct, as 20k more people per yeaar apply, that is 18k more that will be rejected and will be impressed that someone else got in.
SaphireNY, I think MIT would see the fact that their application process discourages some applicants as a good thing. Anyone who thrives at MIT can muster up the energy to complete their application. MIT isn’t just another elite school (if there is any such thing). And, as importantly, nobody who threw in MIT as just one more application is getting into it anyway. Anyone who wondered into MIT (if it were even possible) because it wasn’t hard to apply would probably find themselves miserable even if they could get in, which they can’t. They probably wouldn’t last through CPW. While a lot of well established schools are tripping over each other to look the same and to appear as if they were Harvard, MIT appears to have no such aspirations. I believe they turned down formal offers to combine with Harvard. A big no thanks. I’m not associate with the school but can’t imagine that anyone on that campus would want it to have an application process that facilitates applicants who just want to throw it onto their list for ease of applying.
SaphireNY, in some ways you are doing what you are concerned others may do regarding Chicago when you discuss Rochester as if Rochester could not compete with Chicago on the “good” dimension. Your assumption is that people who know schools well should think Chicago trumps Rochester. And the truth is that it often does and sometimes does not. Students interested in atomic, optical or molecular physics would probably choose Rochester. Likewise for a student who wants to pursue engineering.
With respect to URochester, which is an excellent school and obviously if someone wanted to study certain fields of engineering URochester may be attractive, just as if someone knew they wanted to be a pharmacist they may not choose UChicago or if they wanted speech therapy they may choose Boston University. Similarly, if someone had absolute monetary concerns but did not qualify for need based aid, they may choose URochester or Tulane for merit money and would turn down Harvard, MIT and UChicago. However, this discussion is not about the periphery or the exceptions but about the main name recognition as a national research university that a school such as Columbia enjoys and a school such as URochester or URichmond does not. Both of those URs are OVERALL significantly lower down in the rankings than UChicago. Still excellent schools but without the WOW factor. However, the average top 100 college applicant does not make that much of a distinction. Two Colleges in cold cities and one in a warmer climate.
Also, assuming money were not a deciding factor, someone who wanted to study nuclear engineering and could get into both URochester and UChicago for example would be much more likely to attend UMichigan Engineering which sits on top of a decomissioned nuclear reactor and is ranked in the top 10 for many engineering programs. Also, those type of rankings are based on graduate programs not undergrad for the most part. One of my friends has changed his major 4 times. I also know people who went to pharmacy school and left with credits they could not transfer because they realized it was not for them (just an example).
If they really wanted to attend UChicago, being in the birthplace of the Manhattan Project is not bad, neither is the new molecular engineering program would probably be attractive to someone who was interested in Molecular Physics. I do agree that if you want to build bridges or design large machineary UChicago is probably not the right place.
As to the comment about MIT, there are people who would like to attend and those who REALLY want to go and everything in between. I do not believe that how well you fill out a sheet detailing AP geography and AP basketball that you took in sophomore year, and the other 30 classes you took shows whether you are suited for MIT (mine glitched so I had to refill it because it deleted everything, so I must have really wanted to go (did not help). How you answer the essays does to some extent but I am not a big believer that colleges can absolutely tell whether you belong based on applications. I know of people who got into one of the more competitive programs at UMichigan (eg Ross or Engineering) in addition to UChicago and I cannot think of two less similar schools. However the college application process is premised on colleges looking at your application and applying the sorting hat (could not resist sorry) to see if you belong. Based on that how easy the application to complete is not material since your essential googliness or Chicagoness or MITness will shine through, regardless of whether you spent months or two hours on the application. Or so the theory goes
Sadly, name recognition is still an issue. We live in Illinois and most people I talk to have no clue. I was searching for a hotel near UChicago and if you use the Hilton website and input “University of Chicago” as your search tool, the site searches for hotels near U of I Chicago…UGH! (And UChicago has a corporate contract with Hilton – sheesh!) I know this is pathetic but when my dad posted on FB that his grandson was going to the University of Chicago, I was thrilled that his cousin knew it was one of the best schools in the country, was familiar with famous grads etc. (Of course, she is a Northwestern grad and her husband is a lawyer who knows some of the law profs at UChicago.) Sad that most people don’t know. Fortunately, my son doesn’t care about prestige or name recognition. He cares about going to the school that is best for him. I am so proud of him for picking UChicago.
My son is going to be a freshman this year at UChicago and I have to say I am disappointed everyone on this post is so worried about name recognition for the school. Who cares if Joe Average does not know the school? Joe Average is not the person you or your children will be contacting to get jobs when they graduate from the University. We live in the Northeast, and every educated and successful person I have told that my son is going to UChicago is extremely impressed and has said “your son must be very studious and very smart” and “great school”. I often feel when reading CC postings on UChicago that many people are worried the school is not good enough and have a bit of a complex that it is not in the Ivy League. I’m sure most of you know that there are many schools not in the Ivy League that are considered on par with or possibly better than many of the Ivy League schools, such as Stanford, MIT, Duke, UChicago, etc. You guys have to stop worrying about what you perceive is a lack of name recognition/prestige for UChicago and be thankful you or your child have such a great opportunity to be attending this great academic institution.
@CTlawyer - I have no doubt most people posting are thrilled to have their kids at UChicago. I know I am and I know that UChicago is better than or on par with the Ivies. But it is a bit frustrating when people who could be in a position to influence your child don’t know much about UChicago. For example, my son has been awarded a modest scholarship from an organization that will not disperse the money until after he has submitted his first quarter grades. Does this organization know UChicago’s reputation for grade deflation? Will it be a problem for him if he gets a B or worse – for the first time in his life - as a final grade? Would they be more impressed with straight As from a community college? It isn’t the end of the world, of course, but kind of frustrating to think that the people in charge of his scholarship may not understand what grades mean when one is attending the University of Chicago.
Did the organization make it clear what your son needs to show as first quarter grades before they disburse the scholarship? If you think they are singling him out because they do not know UChicago and would have given him the money right away if he was attending Harvard, then it might behoove you to talk to them and educate them on UChicago. Perhaps provide them with a copy of the UChicago ranking in US News & World Report, etc.
@CTlawyer, I don’t think they were singling him out. As a matter of fact, this scholarship is reserved exclusively for a student attending a university in Illinois. So, no, they aren’t holding his college choice against him. I think it is standard procedure for them to release the funds only after successful completion of the first term. I just worry that they may not be familiar with UChicago’s rep. I am wondering if I should be proactive, letting them know ahead of time how tough UChicago is, or just wait until he gets his grades.
Shhhh . . . . ! Don’t tell anyone, but Chicago’s reputation for grade deflation, like its reputation for moribund fun, is more legendary than real.
According to the gradeinflation.com website, ten years ago, Chicago’s “average GPA” (whatever they meant by that) was estimated at 3.35, which was slightly higher than the average GPA for all private colleges in 2006 (3.30), which in turn was meaningfully higher than the average GPA for all public colleges. The Chicago average GPA had been under 3.0 in the 1990s, but probably not since then.
Judging from the graduation convocations I attended in 2009 and 2011 – and confirmed by newmassdad in 2010 – more than 60% of each class then was graduating with general honors, which meant a GPA that rounded to 3.3, i.e., 2.250 or higher. It may be that the curve was a little steeper at Chicago than at Harvard or Brown, and that a straight A was harder to come by, but A-s were fairly plentiful, and C level grades not so much, outside of huge, pre-med stuffed non-honors introductory science surveys.
Very reassuring @JHS, did they get pluses and minuses yet? How can you run a school where half the people have below a B average?
@CTlawyer since I began this thread let me explain. There is a world of difference of the perception of UChicago among academics and professionals and MBAs, JDs and MD/MPHs as opposed to your random University of Vermont graduate. Of couse I know that walking into any graduate lab, hospital or hedge fund UChicago will be recognized. However, for the next 3 months I am working at my local Y or country club or summer camp. College admission, petty that it is, like a shiny new toy. I feel like I have this really souped up car that will beat out all the other cars but no one knows because it is a foreign brand and are too busy admiring my friend’s Mercedes even though it is the base model and very underpowered.
When you are 18 and waiting to go to college it is nice to have people come up and be impessed even if it is petty.
@LegacyMom, you mentioned you were proud of your son for choosing UChicago, where else was he considering
@SaphireNY – He was offered a full scholarship plus research stipend to Vanderbilt and was offered a Presidential scholarship tp USC. To be perfectly honest, MIT was his 1A and UChicago his 1B, but he didn’t get into MIT. Frankly, I was rooting for UChicago – closer to home, much better FA and higher ranked. So it all worked our well. (But a lot of people thought he was nuts for turning down Vandy and I have to admit, financially, it made me very nervous.)
Did not get into MIT either! Not sure I would have loved it as much as I did on the tour.
Would your son have been happy at Vanderbilt? Did he visit? Full scholarship is quite cool but great that you can leave it to him
Did not apply to USC and did not visit Vandy so have no idea but they both seem much more sports oriented. Not something I wanted. I really thought it bizarre when the UMichigan Engineering guide said I had to buy season tickets. Never been to a football game.
@SaphireNY , Yes he visited Vandy and liked it quite a bit. He eventually narrowed it down to UChicago and Vandy and was going to revisit them both. But after seeing UChicago a second time, he cancelled his second visit to Vanderbilt. (I didn’t tell him this, but I predicted he would do that.) Vanderbilt only seems sports oriented, because they’re in the SEC. I would say they are to the SEC what Stanford is to the Pac 12, but Stanford has actually been pretty good lately. Vanderbilt has been good at baseball, but not much else from what I’ve observed. Anyway, most of the people we know think Vanderbilt is very prestigious – Harvard of the South, etc. There were many things he liked about Vanderbilt, but the main edge Vandy had (besides the full ride of course) was that they have an Engineering school. My son thinks engineers are more employable, so it might be nice to know he could switch to that if he changed his mind. But, in the end, his heart was with UChicago – just the right place all around, plus a better culture for him. As for USC, that is more of a family thing. I went there and so did his 2 brothers. Yes, USC is a sports school for sure, but I don’t think USC gets they credit they deserve for academics, although they are starting to. USC had a 16% admit rate this year and their freshman profile, in terms of the objective things like test scores and grades, was more impressive than that of UCLA or Berkeley. Son #1 absolutely loves the sports, fraternity and all the stereotypical USC stuff. He picked SC for the Film School – best in the country, if not the world. Son #2 is a CS for games major – best school in the country for games – and is about as opposite from his brother as one can get. He doesn’t care a bit about sports. (And, no, you do NOT have to buy season tickets!) He is very happy at USC – there is quite a quirky, intellectual niche there. Son #3 visited both USC (twice) and CalTech and was actually more impressed with SC. He applied there and not to CalTech. He isn’t crazy about sports, but would have loved to have been in the Trojan Marching Band – they are very cool. USC showed him a great time at USC Explore, but in the end it just wasn’t for him and I wanted him to go where he wanted to go – not just attend USC because it was a family thing. (That said, he would have been treated like a king there! Oh well – another reason I’m proud of him for choosing the challenging road over the easier one.) For the record, he didn’t apply to any safety schools, because he got into UChicago, early action.