Narrowing the College List

Well, since you are asking for a quick cut, based on your stats making the schools a real reach and you not wanting a very competitive environment, I would cut: Wesleyen, Bowdoin, Amherst, Wellesley, Barnard, Swarthmore, and Middlebury.

Ah, was hoping for MN or WI. They have reciprocity with each other, giving you a lot more state school (affordable) options. And I had missed in the first pass that Swarthmore is on your list. It is very intense academically, you should probably also remove it.

I just don’t think you can “hope” for financial aid. You might look at some LACs that could offer you merit. Lawrence in Wisconsin is one. If you can add a couple of points to your ACT, you have a better shot at more merit in general. Then there are schools like Luther and Gustavus. A little lower priced than a lot of the schools on your list, but you might get some good merit aid. In general, you probably need (1) schools where your stats are on the higher end, and (2) LACs that are a little lower priced to begin with. Most of the schools on your list are over $50K/year – so even if you get say $15K in merit, you are still left with a bill of $35K/year.

Bucknell has pretty preppy/nerdy vibe - similar to Kenyon and Middlebury - much less international feel than Midd - all three are idyllic and beautiful

Thanks @intparent you’ve been really helpful–even if it isn’t exactly what I wanted to hear. I’m retaking the ACT to try and get a couple more points. I will take your advice and look at some more schools around the area. I’ll probably narrow my first list to five, I’ve already made the cuts you and a couple others have suggested. Maybe one of these schools will surprise me with aid but, like you said, I’ll need to also throw in a lot more affordable options! I’ll definitely look more closely at Luther and Lawrence as well as a couple others.

Thanks everybody for your responses! You’ve all been very helpful! :slight_smile:

You’ve received some great advice so far. Here’s my thoughts based on visits with my kids and their opinions. Just one family’s opinions…here goes! Sorry for the length.

Your ACT is solid. If you can get it up, great! If not, it is still very respectable. Don’t worry that your school doesn’t have AP/IB. Colleges will understand that and see that you are taking the most rigorous courses you can for a small school in a rural area. Can’t opine on your GPA, its all relative to your class standing. Sell your leadership both in sports and in ECs - class secretary, starting the spanish speaking program, etc. and your awards for writing and speech.

Being from Iowa, is there a reason Grinnell isn’t on your list? Or is it too close to home?

Based on your preference for a school with strong creative writing, Kenyon does seem like a must for your final list. They also give some merit aid. U of Iowa is a great safety for you for creative writing as well. Iowa City is a nice little city. Middlebury seems like a must as well between languages and writing. Hamilton as well - strong in writing, a beautiful campus, a little isolated, a bit preppy but artsy kids as well.

Schools I would take off your list due to propensity for a more type A, intense environment: (Most of these would be reaches and there are other reach schools that I think would fit your needs/wishes better)
Wellesley College
Swarthmore College
Barnard
Amherst College

Apply to:
Middlebury College* - strong in languages and writing, beautiful campus, a little jocky and preppy but some crunchy students too
Kenyon College* - beautiful campus, strong writing, good sports teams for a LAC, mix of students
Hamilton College - strong in writing, great campus, can be preppy but has an artsy side as well
U of Iowa - safety, strong writing
Wesleyan University - good writing program, creative and artsy environment

Schools we really liked but research the strength of the creative writing departments:

Haverford College and/or Bryn Mawr - both are in the same consortium so you can easily take classes at both and the cooperation between the 2 is seamless.You can major on either campus. It is also possible to take classes at Swarthmore and UPenn although not quite as easy as they are further away. I agree with MidwestDad3 that women’s colleges offer a great education and are easier to get into so it would be nice to add one to your list. I really like both Haverford and Bryn Mawr but they have different vibes. I think Haverford would be a reach and Bryn Mawr a match/low match. Both have a great location - beautiful bucolic campuses (although Bryn Mawr’s architecture is a little more grandiose than Haverford’s more low key Quaker feel) yet very easy access (15 minutes via public transportation) to Philly which has great dining, fine arts, music scene, etc. Both campuses have plenty of dining spots and stores and the commuter train within walking/biking distance. Good mix of students as well. It would be great to include a more urban/suburban school as an option as most LACs are more rural. I get a sense that you’d appreciate the opportunities available with easy access to a city. Haverford has very strong academics but the students are very low key about it. Students talk ideas but not grades and don’t compare or compete. Very accepting atmosphere. Many exams are self-scheduled and self-proctored.

Carleton - strong academically, super friendly, intelligent students with a nice mix of personalities, just a really good vibe. Bright, slightly quirky students who are happy and nice.

Whitman College - pretty campus, nice kids, pretty remote and a little challenging to get to

Bowdoin - good lifestyle in terms of food/dorms, strong academics, happy students, better location than other Maine LACs like Colby and Bates, can walk to town with a variety of restaurants (and wonderful gelato shop!). Portland, ME is a vibrant city fairly close by with great dining and some live music venues and you can also hope on the train to Boston.

Schools we were so-so on - didn’t hate but weren’t at the top:
Oberlin College - didn’t seem like the best maintained campus, a little lacking in diversity as it seemed a little too left leaning overall (and we are fairly liberal people) but my kids wanted some diversity on campus

Vassar - absolutely beautiful library but overall it just didn’t stick out to us in any way. The Poughkeepsie area isn’t very dynamic lacking a big city vibe but also the access to nature found at more remote places like Middlebury. But sounds like they might have decent creative writing and the student body is more artsy.

Macalester College - one child liked it a lot, the other not so much. Very diverse, international student body. More urban setting with a still defined yet small campus. Much to walk to in terms of dining, etc.

Bates - happy students, town isn’t the best

Schools on your list that we didn’t care for:
Skidmore College - students didn’t seem happy, we had some tell us not to go there
Bard College - some impressive arts created here but came across as too, too hipster. Everyone seemed to smoke cigs which was a huge turnoff. Students all seemed to fit the same mold.
Beloit - location was a tad depressing. I feel like there are better safeties out there.
Smith - least favorite of the women’s colleges. Students were nice enough but seemed a little serious.

Not familiar with:
Sarah Lawrence College, Wooster, Kalamazoo, Bucknell, Hampshire

Some matches/safeties to consider not on your list:

Colorado College - probably a match. good creative writing program, would fit your interest in a West coast school, unique block plan, has D1 sports in men’s hockey and women’s soccer that have a good following, great location for outdoorsy stuff yet in a city. Laid back but inquisitive, bright student body.

Wash U St. Louis - would be a reach but strong writing, beautiful campus, not a LAC but still has small classes, not too far from home so potential for a visit. Urban setting with a well defined campus. Well run school.

St. Olaf in Northfield, MN - same town as Carleton College so you could visit both schools, could be a safety/low match

Lawrence University in Appleton, WI - I agree with intparent here: generous merit aid, nice campus, might be good choice for a safety

Denison in Ohio gives out good merit aid as well.

Good luck and I am happy to answer any questions/offer more opinions!

Many of these schools (over half) give ‘some merit aid’. But my D2 who had 2380 SAT superscore, and 800 subject tests in Lit & Math II was only offered $15K/year at Kenyon. Bringing the cost down to just over $40K/year (and that was 2 years ago, assume tuition increases between 3 & 5% at a lot of these schools/year). Now Kenyon does offer a few larger scholarship that are competitive. My kid was not invited to interview for them… I sort of assume they are students with some kind of hook? But really don’t know for sure. I completely agree about Kenyon being a great school for a writer, though, IF she can make it affordable. The merit picture was much the same at Macalester (although I do like the school a lot – used to live in the neighborhood).

And Carleton offers no merit aid beyond $2,000/year for all national merit finalists.

I think you need to try to get a better handle on whether you might get any need based aid AND how much your parents can afford to pay. A couple of ways to get a handle on the need based aid:

  • When you run the net price calculators, try entering all the assets of your dad's farm as if they are his personal assets (if he owns only a portion with someone else, then just his portion). That is sort of the worst case scenario of how a college might treat the farm, I think. However, I have no idea if family farms get any special treatment compared to small businesses (or if your dad's farm is incorporated in any way). Someone on the financial aid forum might be able to answer the question of whether there are any differences in how farming operations are treated in the financial aid process. So you might also ask that question out there. Putting it all in the net price calculator is sort of the worst case scenario.
  • I have heard of people asking financial aid offices to give them an early evaluation of their possible financial aid picture when their finances are complicated. As with the regular financial aid process, they will likely want your parents' tax returns, the farm returns if they are separate, and some kind of information on the assets of the farm. I can tell you now that some parents balk at first (this is a pretty intrusive line of questioning, of course), but it is ultimately necessary if you are asking the college to give you a discount due to your finances. Colleges do have some variety in their decision making process on awarding need based aid, but I think asking for an early evaluation at one or two of them might give you a good idea.
  • When looking for need based aid, it is best to apply to colleges that claim to meet full need. That is by their calculation, not yours, of course... but you still can expect better aid from these colleges. Here is a link to the USNWR list. Many, but I think not all, of your schools are on it. If you ask for early evaluation, I would ask a couple of schools on this list.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2014/09/15/colleges-and-universities-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need

  • The income your family has the year prior to starting college (so for this fall's new freshman, they started by looking at 2014 income) is the first year they will look at. So if you are a junior, it will be income from 2015 (this year) that they will look at as the first year (and then the next 3 years they will re-evaluate each year based on that year). So bottom line, having a loss in 2014 will not help your FA picture. And your picture is likely to be volatile, with aid going up and down with the earnings of the farm.
  • Note that if you get need based aid, you may not be able to apply any merit aid on top of that. Many of these schools do not "stack" aid. They replace some component of your need based aid with it, and you end up with the same cost of attendance. So you can't say to yourself, "My early evaluation showed I might get $20K of need based aid/year. Now if I can just get one of their $15K scholarships, my cost will be down to under $30K." It doesn't usually work like that. Sometimes they replace loans in the package first, but it varies by school. This same rule goes for outside scholarships -- so if you get $500 from the Elks in your community, if you have need based aid, a lot of these colleges will just knock down the need based aid by the $500. But you have to ask each college their policy (it often isn't clear on their financial aid web page).

“Hamilton is probably best known for their writing program, I forget who did the ranking …”

USA Today, with research from another organization; “The 10 Best American Colleges for Writers.” The entry for Hamilton concludes, “it is a challenge to find a better place to study the English language.”

Just came from visiting my daughter there. No sororities or frats, which suits students fine. Very diverse group of students from all over. Students generally won’t apply there unless they want an overseas experience. You should look into the “K plan”, which has been copied (at least partially) by some other colleges. They pack a lot into four years. I appreciate that they do not have gen ed requirements, which frees students up to easily pursue minors and concentrations. My daughter has two concentrations, which are similar to minors, in addition to her major. I expect she will do an internship, her SIP (senior intensive project), and a 6 month study abroad, all graduating on time.

You’ve gotten great advice so far. I would add that before you get too deep into the specifics of programs, fit, etc, you should do the second step in forming a college list: determine whether they are affordable. Because you described your parents financial situation as messy, this might involve calling schools directly. I wouldn’t do this until late May. By that time, FA offices will have largely sorted out the incoming class and will have the time to actually listen to your situation. This gives you time to get pertinent information from your father. I would call with his tax records in hand.

I just don’t see the point in investing a lot of time researching schools that won’t be financially viable.

Best of luck!

Intparent Kzoo’s study abroad is one of the top in the country.

Can you describe how they have a better study abroad program than most of the other colleges on the OP’s list? Every LAC offers study abroad, including their own programs and programs with other colleges in interesting locations. I bet every school on the OP’s list allows financial aid (including merit) to travel with the students to most study abroad experiences. Every LAC has an office of people to help coordinate the study abroad experience. At many schools you can do 2 off campus study experiences (my D attended another LAC and did a semester in a very unusual country where little study abroad occurs, and also a semester in DC as well). Every school provides help in figuring out how to transfer back the credits. We visited the study abroad offices are part of campus tours with my older D (to many of the schools on the OP’s list) because of her desire to study in this off-the-beaten path location. There is little to distinguish them, IMHO, most LACs offer pretty similar experiences and services.

The one exception we found was Haverford (which D1 loved in all other ways). They were very restrictive in study abroad, and would only allow studying on their own programs. D2 reluctantly took them off her list for this reason, as they had no study abroad where she wanted to go. She had studied a language for 8 years that is only really spoken in one country, and wanted to spend a semester there.

@intparent - That’s not true about Haverford. Not sure what time frame you looked at Haverford and study abroad, but they offer many programs from other schools as options. Heres a list that is 8 pages long (Cuba was just added recently): http://www.haverford.edu/studyabroad/programs/

Additionally, there is the option of appealing to add a program not on the list if you can make a case that no program on the list is similar or meets your needs.

This was several years ago (for D1), I see they have expanded the options a lot (maybe they got complaints?). But I see that the country D1 went to still isn’t on the list… I see there is a process now to petition for going to a program/school not on on the list, I don’t think they had that either at the time. None of this probably matters for the OP of this thread, though, as they haven’t expressed any unusual study abroad preferences. :slight_smile:

Yet, all good info nonetheless as I encourage the OP to study abroad no matter what school is chosen. :slight_smile:

@redpoodles‌ thanks for the advice :slight_smile: I’m making the cuts to all of them but Midd! Midd just has too strong of a language and writing program not to consider it even if it is very competitive!

I’ve done a lot of research on both Middlebury and Kenyon but I’ll definitely look more closely at Bucknell! I’ve heard it has good programs–that’s why it’s on the list–but I don’t really know much about it… Could you maybe elaborate more on the typical Bucknell student?

@doschicos‌ thank you so much for your thoughtful post! Your information was exactly what I was looking for and I’ve made the cuts you’ve suggested! I really liked that you said about Haverford students being low key about grades–that’s what I want! I want a college that is challenging but where students don’t go crazy comparing grades. :slight_smile:

In general, you might like schools with honor codes. The cooperative atmosphere you are seeking may be particularly strong at these colleges.

Your ACT score, btw, is solid for every school on your list. I would not eliminate any of them out of a concern about not being adequately prepared. The key for you will be to assess the overall environments of these schools, which can vary somewhat in relation to how they appear on paper. I think you have gotten some good – though as is usual for CC, at times conflicting – advice on this thread thus far.

@intparent‌ I thought I would tell you that I talked to my dad late last night. Apparently, he had already discussed college with the guy who manages our finances at the bank. He said the finance guy is convinced, after looking at Dad’s finance situation, I should be able to get good aid.

I am thinking that I will narrow my original list quite a bit and add a couple of the other safety schools you suggested to make sure I’ll get affordable options. Then, I’ll see which schools accept me and what kind of aid they offer!

Okay… I am going to tell you that I have rarely (if ever) met a finance guy at a bank who knew much about how colleges calculate financial aid, especially private schools. Ignore the advice of asking for an early read on FA from a college or two at your own peril. You could end up with no affordable choices except U of Iowa in the end. Really. Even if this guy knows something about FAFSA (odds are if he has kids that is what they used), likely he knows nothing about CSS Profile schools. Even if he know what is in your dad’s bank accounts, he may not know the value of his land or equipment, and without this current year’s earnings, no one can say much of anything about what kind of aid you could get.