<p>It would be interesting to know what the use is of the AP branded classes across the country. I suspect that there are higher rates of use by public schools in and around the NE since that is the stronghold of the College Board organization. On a similar vein I suspect that IB programs are stronger in districts that have a high concentration of ex-pats who prefer the program for their children during their tenure in this country. There was a “push” from local municipalities on the schools to add IB programs awhile back when they were “courting” foreign investment in operations. When the economy tanked, that came off the discussion table pretty quickly. But without facts I can’t back up my assumptions. </p>
<p>AP branded classes are primary used as filler classes for kids that accelerate in 8th grade and exhaust the available curriculum in our district. Somewhat of a benefit of Michigan’s requirement that kids have 4 years of math and English and the ability of 8th graders to start a language. In our school they are also used to expose kids to curriculum they typically wouldn’t encounter like economics, statistics, etc. We have a high participation rate and a high “pass rate” which propel us in rankings based on AP even though we have limited AP classes to choose. Kids must take the AP test if they sign up for the class as it’s used as their final exam for the class. No one can be exempted. </p>
<p>I think I agree with SteveMA that if you are going to evaluate the caliber of a class or a school, much like the colleges you need to look at all the data points: classes taken, achievement on AP exams, achievements on standardized national tests, percentage going to 4 year colleges, etc. One data point does not suffice for making broad claims about a class of students.</p>
<p>IB diploma programs (i.e. high schools with IB) are pretty rare in the US, with only about 700-800 nationwide.</p>
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<p>While some of these newer APs (including “AP lites”) do create incentive for high schools to offer additional courses that they would otherwise not offer or would offer at a non-rigorous level (i.e. enhancing the high school curriculum), they sort of distort the original core intention of AP, which is to offer advanced students the chance to get advanced placement in college (the calculus tests are those which are best accepted by colleges for this purpose).</p>
<p>If you looked at the chart, you’ll notice that 3’s are good enough to earn you credit at LSU too, so it’s not even that hard. </p>
<p>Out of a class of about 350 students, maybe 1/8 of them signed up for AP EnglishComp and APUSH last year - it was the same students that signed up for both of them.</p>
<p>As we know, there are 2 reasons to take AP classes - the college credit and/or to make your transcript look better if you are applying to more selective schools. Since so many here go to the state schools, they don’t have to have those AP classes on their transcript to get accepted so they take the easy route. Additionally, the guidance counselors don’t give much guidance. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the kids don’t even know that you can earn college credit that way. Our senior guidance counselor has been rather clueless with regards to applying to schools outside the state and has given us plenty of incorrect information because she is used to dealing with LSU, LA Tech, UL-Monroe, UL-Lafayette. She couldn’t even give me correct information for Tulane which tries to recruit students from within the state with things like automatic admission if you have certain stats. Education is really bad and not valued that much by many long time residents.</p>
<p>Because you made me curious, I looked, and Howard CTY only and 28% for 2012. Our school offers many APs, but I know many students take AP classes but don’t take the tests.</p>
<p>UCB, I don’t disagree with your statement. Frankly, I would not be surprised if selective colleges that actually do give credit for these classes cease the practice at some point in the future. I think some public schools use the marketing message with parents that it will “save them money” on college costs to ‘sell’ the idea to school boards and parents. i know with out district they offer just enough to keep parents happy and to “plug” holes in the curriculum and keep up with the demands of colleges. It’s no surprise that College Board looked for ways to reach other markets and grow business and it probably paid off over time to reach into the high school market as some of their services will be technologically obsoleted very quickly (like IDOC for instance) without innovation.</p>
<p>I have observed that Maine attracts well-educated people who are more interested in quality of life than maximizing income. A number of my female friends, for example, are attorneys who chose to work part time while their children were still at home. If they were living in a major metro area, such as DC or NYC, they would have been far less likely to feel that they could afford to make that choice.</p>
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Interesting stat though–if you combine average ACT and SAT scores, MD ranks 37/38th or so depending on the year…high AP scores don’t off set that much. I was actually surprised by that ranking, I thought MD would be closer to the top 10 or in the top10.[\quote]</p>
<p>I think the combined scores are lower, as others have noted, because kids who don’t get the SAT scores they want, try the ACT. They are not the top students. </p>
<p>The last time I checked AP language, seven kids in our county (12 high schools) got threes or better on AP foreign language. I doubt they were second language students just because of the make-up of this county.</p>
<p>momof3boys–you are correct in your statement: “Frankly, I would not be surprised if selective colleges that actually do give credit for these classes cease the practice at some point in the future.”</p>
<p>The Dartmouth policy change is likely relatively minor compared to the attention it attracted, since it already give very limited credit for AP scores (and probably won’t change the placement in subjects like math for AP scores).</p>
<p>When the AP classes started, only the tippy top students took the classes and they were not widely available so having these on your transcript meant something. Now, almost every school has some AP classes, maybe only a few but some. Very few students apply to college without ANY AP’s, or at least AP equivalents like you see at some prep schools. Outside of state schools, it’s getting harder and harder to get AP credits accepted, especially for classes in your major. Given that these “credits” are based on one test, one day–and a lot of people self-study so they don’t really even take a class, I can see where colleges are going away from the practice…that and the money they lose.</p>
<p>I still think it is the only way a lot of schools can give support to top students though. When budget cuts come, the top kids suffer the most because they can pass state testing without a lot of help from the school…</p>
<p>I think it’s fine to “place” kids in classes when they have achieved the foundational skills and using standardized tests like AP or Accuplacer is for me an acceptable method to achieve anticipated correct placement.</p>
<p>Our school only offers AP classes for STEM subjects no AP languages nor AP literature. The percentage of kids taking AP courses would be a lot higher if they offer more classes for kids that are not STEM oriented. The list gives some insight but there are wide variety of approaches to AP classes all over the country.</p>
<p>My living will includes a clause requesting immediate discontinuation of treatment if I end up with someone like the above as my attending physician :)</p>
<p>If the student wants to do that on his/her own I have no problem, but if the parents are pushing for all they’re worth, it’s not the student.</p>
<p>That’s astonishing. My S got three 5s on AP language exams all by himself…I know he is unusually talented when it comes to Romance languages, but still.</p>
<p>I think it’s fine to “place” kids in classes when they have achieved the foundational skills and using standardized tests like AP or Accuplacer is for me an acceptable method to achieve anticipated correct placement.</p>
<p>Some schools in the area do not allow any advanced course work unless the student is at or above grade level in all areas.</p>
<p>Fortunately, since my daughter had learning differences & struggled with math ( compounded by previous sub-par instruction & curriculum), her high school allowed her to take honors in other subjects freshman year & AP Euro, sophomore year, even though she was still behind in math. ( she had caught up enough to take chemistry & physics, by graduation. Not bad for starting high school two years behind- the difference was a different math program/school & the teacher):)</p>
<p>We need to allow students to be challenged where they need it & supported where necessary, instead of trying to put everyone in same box.
Our district is trying to shift to a everyone takes AP model.
For example- at one school students had the option of european history : regular, honors or AP in 10th grade. The school now has ALL sophomores taking AP human geography instead.
So the kids who would have taken regular level are struggling & the kids who would have taken AP Euro are bored.
How is this an improvement? except the school now has a higher number of AP tests to report, which by the way are paid for by parents unless the student is FRL.</p>
<p>I am truly shocked to see my state, Vermont, in the top ten. Someone surmised upthread that the states in the top ten on this list correlate with wealthier areas, but that can’t be true of VT!</p>
<p>My kids went to a rural public high school in VT. One graduated in 2004 (went onto an Ivy school) and one graduated in 2005 (went onto a very selective program at a university with a top scholarship). Back then, I think our school only offered two AP classes: Calculus and Physics (actually, I am not sure the Physics class was AP, and may have just had an Honors track, as most subjects had Honors, but no AP). Since my kids graduated, they have changed some of the Honors classes in upper grades to AP designation. Still not a lot of AP classes, but at least some. The Honors classes when my kids attended were challenging but had no AP tests, etc.</p>
<p>That does show that AP has been diluted by the proliferation of low value tests like human geography that high schools consider appropriate for high school sophomores (rather than for advanced high school seniors and maybe juniors ready to do college freshman level stuff).</p>
<p>Yep, freshmen in the honors track are put in AP Human Geography here, as are sophomores in the non-honors but college-bound academic track. Virtually everybody gets a 3+ on the test. It was D’s “easy class” last year.</p>
<p>Oregon as usual is barely average. We have a serious education crisis in this state, evidenced by our paltry h.s. graduation rate. I think I’ve mentioned this on another thread but the number of students at our local rural high school who have passed (3 or better) the AP U.S. History test in the last few years is: ZERO. And that’s most likely the only AP test ever taken. Thankfully, we are fortunate that DD is attending a school out of the district.</p>
<p>AP is seeming more and more like a boondoggle these days. DD continually receives emails from the CollegeBoard to take AP classes. They seem to mostly benefit one entity – CollegeBoard.</p>