National Honor Society - does it matter?

<p>MY D (a junior) has a similar situtaion. She is the only IB kid that I know of that is not in NHS. Part of being in IB is service!!! She is an officer in several clubs, volunteers at least 6 hours per week, 4.5 (w) gpa, will be a National Merit commended scholar, etc. but somehow she isn't good enough for NHS. I too was angrier about it than my D. I have never gone to her school to complain about it or find out why the secret committee won't say what she did "wrong", but next fall, I am determined to do something if she is denied again. I have read the NHS web site and I believe that you can file an appeal with the school's principal. I feel I must do something this time.</p>

<p>Last fall, the 3 major public high schools in my moderate sized city had a big, and I think amazingly public, discussion about criteria for admission to the NHS. Interestingly, although they are all in the same school district, minimum GPA's were very very different. One school unilaterally announced a decision to lower their GPA to a little above 3.5, meaning hundreds of kids would then be eligible. Controversy abounded. In the end, the schools decided to keep their own individual requirements and minimum GPA's, and the first school lowered their GPA from 3.8 to 3.7.</p>

<p>I still think the National Cum Laude Society, the honor society which focusses on academics and is modelled after Phi Beta Kappa, has much more meaning. Up to the top 5 to 10% of juniors and 10 to 20% of the senior class are admissable. Only faculty who were Phi Beta Kappa in their college are eligible. Schools must have their chapters awarded after a rigorous application process, probably why so few schools actually have this...only 5 or 6 in my home state.</p>

<p>maineparent: You have described a process that is similarly done at our school for admission to NHS. An applicant must have the minimum GPA (I believe it's still a 3.65), and a record of service (doesn't have to be a ton of hours, especially for the sophomore applicants). Students submit an application, advisor checks all GPA's, and students select 2 teachers to complete evaluation forms on their behalf summarizing academic, character, and leadership strengths and potential. Kids may apply for the first time in the spring of sophomore year. A volunteer committee of faculty reviews the application materials along with the faculty advisor.</p>

<p>When my S first applied years ago, he wrote up a quick application on the due date that did not present himself or his service activities well. He was denied admission that first go-round. Lesson learned, he was accepted during his junior year. A rehearsal for the college apps he completed soon after that.</p>

<p>NHS is a service organization at our school. Each student must annually participate in so many hours of service projects that are arranged by the NHS officers with community organizations that very much appreciate the kids' help. In addition, NHS conducts fundraisers (car washes, etc.) to help these organizations. Money also is set aside for a small scholarship (about $500) that is awarded to a graduating senior.</p>

<p>" The sad thing is, at graduation, my son will not have a gold tassel and the rest of the community will not realize how hard he has worked or how much he has accomplished."</p>

<p>Even with the gold tassel, the community would not have realized that.</p>

<p>There also are plenty of students who work hard and accomplish lots of things but will not be recognized by NHS even when NHS admissions is fair.</p>

<p>A student who, for instance, works a job to help support their family and therefore can't do service; a student who gets a 2.8 because of having serious illness or major family tragedies; students who are not very bright, but who manage to graduate from high school; students who have great grades, but have not done service because of major responsibilities to their own families such as having to take care of younger siblings -- their stories will not be known either.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, there will be plenty of students who are brilliant and therefore never had to work hard in school (even in tough academic schools there are students for whom the work is easy), students who got excellent grades because of expensive tutors and/or highly educated parents who could help them; students who did easy community service that their parents lined up for them, etc. who will have gold tassels but who didn't work particularly hard.</p>

<p>I am not saying that everyone in NHS is undeserving (Heck, younger S is in NHS). I am saying, however, that it's not a universal measure of academic excellence, hard work and service.</p>

<p>Well, we are in agreement there - there is no fair way to acknowledge the accomplishments of many of the students and you are absolutely right that many students simply aren't in the position to dedicate themselves to he pursuit of a gold tassle due to real life issues. We have gone to many awards banquets for sports through the years, as well. This is another area where some kids invest oodles of hours and oddles of heart and never receive acknowledgement for what they have accomplished. I am not sure how to resolve these issues but it does seem clear that the NHS as a national society should have a national criteria or that it should be eliminated. The idea that a block of students moves around together excelling at everything is just annoying anyway - it immediately eliminates the kid who excels in physics and math but has poor language skills and the kid who just can't learn a language - it's really a poor measure of excellence and serves only to create yet another clique at school.</p>

<p>I know every school does this differently, but at our school where I teach, a list is generated of all students eligible for academics - then there is a day of evaluations by the teaches and administrators - we have to rank each student we had by category 1-5, and if we give a 1 or 2, then we have to write an explanation. I don't mean to imply that this is why some of our poster's kids didn't get accepted, but in our school, 2 administrators or teachers giving low evaluation points can keep a kid out based on integrity or behavior - in my case, one was a student who had a disrespectful mouth and attitude not just to me but to many - she did not make it. Another was caught shopliftng on a school trip - A third was caught cheating on a test. Very few on the academics list don't get inducted. So, not making it in our school means nothing about academics, but means a great deal about the person. Not making it in our school is a red flag. So, go for it.</p>

<p>evitajr1: Were these kids told that they had character flaws that kept them out of NHS? Were their parents informed? </p>

<p>I have never, ever had anything but glowing reports of my D's behavior at school or anywhere else. If she were disrepectful to a teacher or was dishonest in any way, I think I should be informed.</p>

<p>evitajr1 - I guess this goes to the reason for the NHS in the first place. When I was in school - it was scholarship - now thee is a service component. Regardless, the ranking seems very subjective.</p>

<p>Service is required after you are in. But character is an issue. As to the 3 kids I cited, they knew why without anyone telling them. They were kids I knew and they came to me to complain. One even said she knew which teachers kept her out! The teacher and admin recs are confidential and cannot be revealed. If you and your child have no inkling as to why they child was denied, then you need to speak up. I know a parent who asked what theeir child could do in order to be inducted next year, and they realized a mistake had been made and the child was added to the list - purely administrative error in typing - or a math mistake. Sponsors are human, too.</p>

<p>At my school, NHS means pretty much nothing. To be given an application, a student must have a 3.3 cumulative GPA. Then, they have to meet certain Service, Leadership, Character, and Citizenship requirements. Then, a council of teachers "reviews" the applications. Some 20 applicaations were handed out this year. Everyone who actually turned it in was accepted. The only credential on one student's application was, "leader of an online club." There are people in NHS who are FAILING classes at mid-quarter. It's ridiculous. The only thing our chapter does is run two blood drives a year. Schools like mine are the reason colleges have lost all respect for NHS.</p>

<p>Our chapter is open to sophomore students with a 3.5. That means they must have a 3.5 by 1st semester grading time. Our school does not inflate grades, no honors weighting, all the classes are pre-IB in 9th and 10th grade. The group inducted each year is small and together they decide a service for the year. Having an NHS chapter is one of many ways that we celebrate student achievement in academics, athletics and the arts. The nicest event each year is the induction ceremony with a different interesting speaker each year including old alums/NHS members.</p>

<p>Your guys NHS sounds completely respectable compared to my schools. The requirement is 3.8gpa weighted and selection is at the whim of the faculty. We don't even do a service to the community, we have a mini ceremony for about 25/125 kids and we go on a field trip to san francisco.</p>

<p>that said...the selection process is questionable at most. if teachers have beef with students in the class room that should not affect the decision...shouldn't teachers be supportive of academic success, community service, and leadership...</p>

<p>in the voting of the students, it is not a majority rule situation. one teacher hates you and than your out...and at a christian school its a lot of times for ridiculous reasons. holding hands with your girl...or being an atheist is means for NHS membership rejection.</p>

<p>Dru2k5, I am a teacher, and I don't agree with such subjective "picking" as you have described. We used to have a teacher "committee" and we got rid of it. It has worked well since then. Kids here are very supportive of their classmates and cheer for them when they are successful. So we keep the requirements for NHS numbers based like the Honor Roll. Less to quibble over.</p>

<p>My D's non-selection for NHS did not affect her "very selective" results. Ctygirlsmom & mominsearch have it right about the variability in selection criteria by school. Personal biases of the administration do have much to do with selection -- including petty politics. At D's school, it's community service or the highway. The problem is, since the selection starts pretty early in h.s., you'd better have the comm.service lined up in advance of freshman yr., because they want huge chunks of it at this h.s. by selection time (soph yr). All of the students selected in our case were continuing the same c.s. that they had been established in for some time (usually middle school).</p>

<p>And I'm sorry but my D's college acceptances reflected more selectivity than the acceptances of any of the NHS members at her school. That's why I know it couldn't mean that much when it comes to very top levels (for which those NHS members at her school also applied), but yes, I think at the medium levels it's a push/tip at least.</p>

<p>And I don't get it, because I was an NHS (local) officer, & I didn't think I did that much to "earn" it. To me it was mostly duplicative of my CSF membership (Calif. Scholarship Federation). Comm. service was not such a big deal in my day. I was involved in some school clubs & did hang around school a lot; maybe that's why, then & now, the admin. picks those students. (Visibility.) Dunno.</p>

<p>evitajr1,</p>

<p>That is great that the teachers have and use criterea. However, if the parents and students do not find out what may be missing until after the fact then that is an issue. Did the parents know that their daughter had been caught shop lifting? The parents of the student caught cheating? Those are pretty easy to explain particularly if the parents knew about the transgressions.</p>

<p>How about the parents of the of the student who had a disrespectful mouth and attitude? Attitude and character are hard to quantify let alone vote on. Character to one person is a troublemaker to another person. To me, NHS at many schools is meaningless because it is too variable. If the votes and exclusions are public then that improves the situation particularly if the administration is pro-active in the way it is administered.</p>

<p>From reading this thread it appears that many parents are surprised when their students are excluded from NHS. It is probably because there were certain things going on at school that they should have been aware of but had not been brought to their attention. Regardless, it appears that NHS has little to no impact on college applications.</p>

<p>Here's a good thing the NHS organization has going for it if you're debating whether or not to apply: they give out numerous $1,000 scholarships to members. Like, 2,000 scholarships I want to say, but don't have actual numbers to prove it. I received one this year, and it is (like any money) most appreciated.</p>

<p>As president of the National Honor Society at my own school, I'm personally offended by the lack of integrity that other schools have in the selection process. At my school, we base the admissions on their unweighted GPA (3.5 or higher) and a submitted essay about how they plan on helping the community which are reviewed by the club sponsor and principal only. The GPA requirement is also relatively subjective, my friend had only a 3.2 but was taking all AP/IB classes and so her application was accepted. It's not a popularity contest, although most of the people in NHS are friends simply because they all applied as friends. To stay in the society, you have to attend one meeting a month and attend 75% of the club functions. </p>

<p>Regarding the college applications, it looks good on the app but you'll be fine without it. It mostly only stands out on the app if you are an officer or started an organization within the club.</p>

<p>If you're deciding whether or not it's worth it, it's definately worth it. It doesn't take that much committment if you don't have enough time, and you are able to get alot of community service hours through the club. I completed the graduating service hours requirement (70 hours) in only 1 year. It's much easier obtaining service hours through clubs rather than individually because the club presents you with plenty of oppurtunities that are well-organized and you can participate as a group. And like memz005 said, they hand out scholarships which is what most people who are even considering NHS are trying to acheive anyway.</p>

<p>After my daughter hearing nothing, she finally contacted the NHS sponsor at her school. Apparently, they realized right at the deadline to submit applications that they had omitted a group of students from consideration. As a result, the decisions on admission are very late. Students will be tapped next week - finals week! No induction or officer elections until fall. What a mess.</p>

<p>Our school focuses heavily on leadership. This year the captain of the state runner-up basketball team wasn't selected because he didn't have any leadership! Another student who has run for several offices but has been unsuccessful (she isn't one of the "cool kids"), but who has a 4.0 in all honors/AP classes didn't get in either - no leadership. She does have some leadership with her church youth group, but none at school. It appears that you have to be elected to a club or student government office to be in NHS. My son hasn't been elected to anything either, though he said he'd try to convince the teacher commiettee that his community service work with younger kids is a leadership role. We'll know next year.</p>

<p>For Senior pictures, my son's school NHS members got to wear a special white collar. It made me wish he had gotten NHS but he was just too busy with sports. Oh, well, he's getting to wear the yellow Summa Cum Laude cords at graduation, so that's good enough!</p>