<p>Yes you are right, everyone is willing to cheat. Those that do are the ones that probably get killed in combat too. The honor code should not be something to fear, it should be an active lifestyle. I don't like to be a rat, and I would not sell someone out to buy my future but if I was ever encountered with that situation I would have to talk to my "friend" and advise him to turn himself in, or I would accompany him/her to the powers that be and ask him/her "don't you have something to say?" You have been through sweat, blood and tears to get where you are, why throw it all away to defend someone who, after graduation, may never even see again? If that person cheated, can I really trust him when I go off into the field of battle? You don't know how many times I would go into a class knowing that there is going to be a quiz or worse, an exam, and I would totally flunk that test but I would not cheat. The honor code is a very serious thing at the Academy, it may be difficult to adjust for some but embracing that concept creates even stronger bonds between shipmates.</p>
<p>First of all, it is not an honor "code"- it is an honor "concept."
Second, I disagee with the comment that "everyone is willing to cheat." I can agree that some might be tempted, some might even go so far as to cheat- but you cannot assume that "everyone" is "willing"- especially at the academy, where the consequences can be dire.</p>
<p>The standards at the academy are set high. Being able to rise above friendships to "do the right thing" can be very difficult- but the expectation is that everyone will rise to the higher standard and do the honorable thing.</p>
<p>Truth be told, there are a few options when confronted with such a situation- including confronting the person cheating to confirm that cheating took place, allowing them to self-report, and if that fails, then the obligation to report. What cannot be compromised is the expectation that all will do the right thing- all the time, and without exception. Will some try to cheat? Inevitable. Will they get caught? Hopefully. But for an observer to "not report" would undermine a system where honesty and integerity are at the core of all you do. Difficult? At times, yes. But a friend would not put another friend in this position in the first place, and to do less- to not report- can get you in more trouble than the person doing the cheating.</p>
<p>Does the academy expect you to know this from the outset? The expectation is that you have read through the honor concept and have thought about it and have a grasp of what it entails. While the answer given by the poster was "incorrect," from what was posted I would think the dilemma the question was intended to provoke hit its mark- it is difficult for many to think of it in these terms, and the fact that you hesitated for so long, unclear as to what to do, only goes to demonstrate the ethical dilemma you face, and how difficult "doing the right thing" can be.</p>
<p>Had the answer been a quick "no, I would not report" would be one thing- the fact that you struggled with this, I would think, while not correct, would not be a deal-breaker, at least for me. But it is a concept that will be explained, demonstrated, and experienced, throughout your time at the academy. One thing to remember, should you get the opportunity to attend, is that ignorance is not an excuse- thus, for those of you new to this site, learn the lesson and read the honor concept now. Think about how it might apply to you now, in your life, and if you think you could uphold a concept, even if others around you do not. </p>
<p>It is a higher calling, and it is not for everyone. But on this account, there can be no tolerance of anything but the very best, and cheating falls well beyond the frey, as do those that fail to report.</p>
<p>But now for the good news- you gave an honest answer. If your BGO is worth his/her salt, they will realize that. The rest will come.</p>
<p>
<p>....But for an observer to "not report" would undermine a system where honesty and integerity are at the core of all you do.....
</p>
<p>Is there such a requirement or "obligation to report" in the USNA Honor Concept? :</p>
<p>I read this document The</a> Honor Concept of the US Naval Academy and found this particluar sentence noteworthy:</p>
<p>"To this day at the U.S. Naval Academy, it is not an honor offense to not report another’s offense."</p>
<p>And then later, it says:</p>
<p>"If an honor offense is witnessed by a midshipman, one of the following four options must be taken. First, the midshipman can discuss the situation with the individual and counsel the individual if the violation is admitted and steps are taken to correct it. The second option is to counsel, and if the accused does not admit guilt, to report it to the Brigade Honor Chair to begin an investigation. The third option is to discuss the circumstances of the perceived honor offense and if no violation has occurred to drop the case. The fourth option is to turn the offense directly in to the Brigade Honor Chair. At no time does the accuser have the option of dropping the case if they believe an honor offense has been committed."</p>
<p>:confused:</p>
<p>I will let a mid chime in here....</p>
<p>I am reading it as "a midshipman does not lie cheat or steal, or tolerate those that do."</p>
<p>As for the above, the last sentence sums it up well-
"at no time does the accuser have the option of dropping the case if they believe an honor offense has been committed."
Cheating is an honor offense.</p>
<p>I believe what i posted above is consistant with your quote- insofar as "there are a few options when confronted with such a situation- including confronting the person cheating to confirm that cheating took place, allowing them to self-report, and if that fails, then the obligation to report. What cannot be compromised is the expectation that all will do the right thing- all the time, and without exception."</p>
<p>And I will hold to the fact that a "friend," but more importantly, a fellow shipmate, would not put a fellow shipmate in such a position- trust me when I tell you there are serious ramifications if they try, if they do not report, if they do not tell the WHOLE truth as they know it- an honor board hearing is no joke.</p>
<p>I have to question the wisdom of asking such a question, from the point of view that it is precisely the type of question that could be anticipated by many and responded in the manner perceived as “correct” regardless of the true feelings of the applicant, and then what? If the response is “I’d turn him/her in sir”, how to you check or validate the answer? Have you gained some true insight into the integrity or value system a young man or woman brings to the Academy? </p>
<p>You’re dealing with relatively intelligent young men and women that have grown up in a world in which doublespeak has been raised to an new art form with the most famous practitioners occupying the White House over the past 16 years. If you combine some understanding of the emphasis the SAs place on the honor concept/code/system with a desire to be admitted I would find all but the answer given by az to be suspect and therefore of no use. On the contrary I would find az’s answer to be the only credible response as there would be no motivation to say you wouldn’t turn a friend in unless you were being truthful.</p>
<p>This is a very complicated issue and, at the same time, a very simple one. There are a number of things to consider.</p>
<p>First, USNA's honor code is not identical to that at USMA or USAFA. Their requirements for reporting, their procedures, and their options if someone is found guilty are all somewhat different. Just saying.</p>
<p>Second, at USNA you are not required to report someone who has cheated. However, you must do something (thus, the reference to "dropping" it). At least in my day, we were allowed to discuss the matter with the individual who allegedly committed the offense. Depending on the outcome of that conversation, you then had the option to report the offense or not. </p>
<p>Third, if you are found guilty of an honor violation, expulsion is not the only sanction. Mids are retained on "honor probation," which they must complete successfullly. It's not an easy program and also includes conduct consequences.</p>
<p>Fourth, as a BGO, I don't believe that a candidate must know the "right" answer -- or even if there is a correct one -- to the question posed to you. My guess is that the BGO wants you to start thinking about the difficult situations you may one day face at USNA or as an officer. Personally, I think someone who immediately said, "turn him in," without thinking about how difficult that would actually be, needs to think some more. </p>
<p>Finally, these are important issues. It's not just honor. As an officer, you may see persons you are leading, your colleagues, or your superiors commit an improper act (i.e., violation of the Geneva Convention, war crime, etc.). Will you turn them in or not? You're on leave and your friends are doing marijuana at a party and offer you some. Will you be able to say no and walk away?</p>
<p>As someone noted above, these are issues on which USNA will spend a lot of time with you and you don't have to have all of the answers right now. However, you will be asked time and time again to do the difficult thing, not take the easy road, and you need to start thinking about how this will affect you today. It sounds like your BGO accomplished his purpose in that regard.</p>
<p>From my son, formerly on the brigade honor staff. I asked him how I should discuss honor concept with applicants during interviews</p>
<p>The Honor Concept of the Brigade of Midshipmen was developed by
midshipmen, for midshipmen, and is administered by midshipmen. It
states "Midshipmen are persons of integrity: They stand for that which</p>
<p>is right." </p>
<p>You are correct that we don't have a toleration clause and
we are not required to do anything should we witness an honor offense.</p>
<p>However, we do do something because it is the right thing to do.</p>
<p>Our options upon witnessing a potential honor offense are:
Do nothing
Confront and discuss
Confront, discuss, and report
Report</p>
<p>Regardless of the outcome, we are encouraged to confront and discuss,
so
that both parties come to a better understanding about what happened.</p>
<p>If a formal report does happen (as opposed to counseling and
discussion), and a person is found in violation, the other big
difference between us and other places with honor codes is that we in
many instances focus on remediation. The final determination for that
is left up to the Commandant, but we do try to develop a whole person
and officer who has learned from his/her experiences.</p>
<p>The standard for reporting is no different for firstie or plebe,
however
the standard for punishment or remediation usually is. That is, it is
more likely that a plebe will be retained and remediated than a
firstie.</p>
<p>And yes, if asked about something, we are obligated to tell the truth.</p>
<p>Telling the truth means stating the truth, ensuring the full truth is
known, and not using deceptive language or otherwise trying to make
things seem other than they are.</p>
<p>I am quite sure that folks with zero affiliation with another service academy should refrain from making judgements about the implementation or interpretation of their Honor Codes.
I would not trust any information offered from a mid/cadet, parent or even admissions officer from one academy concerning how the honor code at another academy is interpreted. It is simply heresay.</p>
<p>If anyone would like more information or explanation of the USMA honor code, please PM me. Don't take the above at facevalue.</p>
<p>I believe those that posted responsed to the USNA Honor Concept have affiliations with USNA. </p>
<p>I also belive that those that asked the question were asking it from the perspective of USNA- thus, posting on the USNA thread- if the need is to know the honor code at USMA I would think one would post the question in that forum.</p>
<p>USNA has an honor concept; USMA has an honor code.
Both institutions post their honor stances in their catalogue, on their websites, and in their promotional material- hardly hearsay.</p>
<p>This issue is a bit old, but felt that I needed to chime in here because people have hit on some important points but are meandering around the bush.</p>
<p>As an investigating officer for the Brigade Honor Board (A 2/c Billet), I have seen why midshipmen lie, cheat, or steal, and it's all due to pressure and the prospects of not being caught.</p>
<p>To me, the USNA describes its mission of developing the midshipmen morally, mentally, and physically. In order to perform in those areas, you must practice all three of them. If you do not work out, you will not pass the PRT. If you do not study, you will not pass your classes, and if you do not practice good honor, you will not be honorable, it is a simple as that.</p>
<p>The noteworthy difference between our Honor Concept and the other service academies' honor codes is that USNA midshipmen are not obligated to report offenses that we witness. We are taught to use our own discretion to deal with what's important and handle it accordingly.</p>
<p>On the whole, I would submit that most midshipmen are aware of what the honor concept entails, but are scared of the system and see anyone on the staff as paper tigers, joes, etc. If everyone just embraced it the same way, we wouldn't have the reputation that we do. Fact is, there are always midshipmen who will slip through the cracks and those who have no idea what the honor concept means to them. Most know that it will get you in trouble if you are being investigated for an honor violation, but I would say less than 15% of midshipmen are aware of the processes of the Brigade Honor Board and its staff, which is a shame.</p>