<p>junebug, i'm sorry but oh please. there is a reason that in a civil trial a victim's past sexual history is disallowed: whether or not she was a flirt has nothing to do with whether or not she was raped. i also find it really nice that i see no posts describing what lamar was like when he was drunk. convenient. there is one truth: THIS SYSTEM punished (and continues to punish) her far more than the conduct system ever could. and as for the allegations of an alcohol problem....half the brigade would 'not be fit to be an a command position' if we were all judged by those standards. how about you replace 'accuser' with 'victim' a couple of times. maybe keep in mind that they are both people, with lives that have been ruined. absolutely disgusting.</p>
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how about you replace 'accuser' with 'victim' a couple of times.
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<p>That would make it extremely difficult to make any sense whatsoever of the narrative since I have already replaced 'accused' with 'victim'.</p>
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maybe keep in mind that they are both people, with lives that have been ruined. absolutely disgusting.
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<p>Yes, but one is being offered a second chance. The other, for the exact same offense, is not.</p>
<p>I am no fan of rapists. If I posted here what I believe should be done to them, I'd be banned. Believe me, it is long, painful, and terminal. :mad:</p>
<p>However, far too many times it has come to pass that the allegation of "rape" was less than factual. Was this one of them? Who knows? None of us were there.</p>
<p>What does stand, however, is that neither of these Mids behaved in a manner even remotely close to what USNA standards are supposed to be. Accusations were hurled and found to be false. Others could be neither proven nor disproven. Still others stood on their own merit without need for an argument.</p>
<p>I use the word "victim" only when it applies. Was this woman the victim of a rape? Not according to the court. Sure, that doesn't establish whether it ACTUALLY did or ACTUALLY didn't happen, but we've got to go by the law, here. Let's fail on the side of caution: If we assume the rape ACTUALLY happened, then she is a victim of rape. That doesn't exonerate her from her failure to show good judgement in that she got so drunk out of her mind that she blacked out. Is that illegal? No, but it doesn't give her a blank check, either.</p>
<p>So, as USNA 69 wrote, we have a situation now where two people are guilty of the same thing but are being treated differently. Where is the justice in that?</p>
<p>Personal responsibility cannot be tossed away just because one was drunk.</p>
<p>Morrison accused of indecent assault</p>
<p>Published in the Annapolis Capital:</p>
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Jury selection began this morning in the court-martial of a Navy football player charged with assaulting two female midshipmen.</p>
<p>Midshipman 1st Class Kenny Ray Morrison, a former backup linebacker, appeared calm as his team of civilian and Navy lawyers questioned the panel of 15 potential jurors....
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<p>"If we assume the rape ACTUALLY happened, then she is a victim of rape. That doesn't exonerate her from her failure to show good judgement in that she got so drunk out of her mind that she blacked out. Is that illegal? No, but it doesn't give her a blank check, either."</p>
<p>Z - What exactly do you mean by "blank check" in the above? Does it mean that the victim is complicit somehow in the rape? Maybe not legally but morally?</p>
<p>Let's not get off track here. The court martial determined that it was not rape but consensual sex. This is not about what might have been or what could have been but what the court martial found which was not guilty.</p>
<p>The Kenny Morrison court martial is stacking up to be another of the same ilk. The BS is going to have a field day.</p>
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Z - What exactly do you mean by "blank check" in the above? Does it mean that the victim is complicit somehow in the rape? Maybe not legally but morally?
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<p>What I mean is that all too often people decide, "Well, she was raped", so that somehow gives the victim a blank check on having been drunk, or hanging out with the wrong crowd, or whatever.</p>
<p>Does that mean she "asked" for the rape? Of course not. However, you can't just gloss over her actions, either. If you want to call that "having some moral responsibility", it'll suit me because it's accurate.</p>
<p>In this case, this Midshipman drank so much that she blacked out. I don't care what was done to her afterwards, she is still guilty of an appalling lack of judgement and should be called on it. There were several infractions committed in this case, and no one should be treated better than anyone else because they were a victim of some other infraction.</p>
<p>Just because I was driving drunk when another drunk driver crossed the median and hit me head-on, severing both my legs at the hip, doesn't give me the right to whine about being a victim and to get a pass on MY drinking and driving.</p>
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The court martial determined that it was not rape but consensual sex. This is not about what might have been or what could have been but what the court martial found which was not guilty.
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<p>Absolutely right. However, you can see that the "victim" is still the "victm" of something that was found not to have happened, and for which she was therefore partially responsible. Won't stop some from saying that she deserves a pass, though.</p>
<p>Alumni back Owens in expulsion case</p>
<p>Published in today's BS:</p>
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A former Navy quarterback who was acquitted of rape and now faces expulsion from the Naval Academy took his case to Washington last week, urging members of Congress to support his attempts to graduate and become an officer.</p>
<p>Securing the free assistance of several people from lobbying giant Cassidy & Associates is the latest step for Lamar S. Owens Jr.'s supporters, a group that includes a growing number of academy alumni with a wide range of influence garnered from prominent careers in the public and private sectors....
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<p>^^^^My concern would be that even as an ensign, where would they post him? Would there be lack of confidence by his superior officers? Just what would be in store for him? Just rhetorical, not serious questions.</p>
<p>Published in the BS:</p>
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The Annapolis city council narrowly approved last night a statement in support of a former Navy quarterback who was acquitted of rape and now faces expulsion from the Naval Academy.</p>
<p>The resolution in support of Lamar S. Owens Jr., which passed, 5 to 4, recommends that the former midshipmen be allowed to graduate but not receive his officer's commission....
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The Annapolis city council...
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<p>Who cares what they think, one way or the other? They have as much impact on this as any of us here do. In other words, ZERO.</p>
<p>More political grandstanding by the esteemed "leaders" of society. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>If he 'beats the system' he may be considered a hero wherever he's posted.</p>
<p>He "Beats the system" if he is indeed guilty.</p>
<p>He gets "beaten up by the system" if he is not.</p>
<p>We will never know, not for sure. </p>
<p>One thing is for sure, no matter how great a job he did leading navy in FB, his career, if he is allowed to have one, will have a huge question mark hovering over it forever more.... ok if it is deserved, a shame if it is not. </p>
<p>Not for nothing, but you don't crap where you eat.</p>
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she is still guilty of an appalling lack of judgement and should be called on it.
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<p>and to that particular point I would also agree.</p>
<p>The academy loses either way. </p>
<p>Enough said.</p>
<p>This is a bit off the track- </p>
<p>then again, it is food for thought-</p>
<p>The NC DA announced yesterday that the 3 duke lacrosse players accused of rape were "innocent" and that all charges were being dropped. Not "case dropped for lack of evidence," but "innocent of all charges."</p>
<p>Great news for 3 young innocent men.</p>
<p>The problem is:</p>
<p>-each family has run up legal fees in excess of 1 million dollars- morgaged homes, maxed out credit cards, exhausted any and all assets and loans from family and friends- to defend their innocent kid. </p>
<p>-they can spend more in legal fees to try and recoup money from a DA that is up for disbarment, but they will never be made whole, or anything close to it. Forget about suing the DA office- government agencies are not up for grabs.</p>
<p>-these boys have been tried, convicted, and smeared all over the media for over a year. Their pictures have been plastered all over the front pages of newspapers and every major TV channel, time and time again, over the last 12 months. I wonder how much front-page press they will get over the next 12 months declaring their innocence. Yesterday it made page 8 of our newspaper.</p>
<p>-we have yet to know who the victum is. Wait- let me rephrase that, because she is only a victum of her own doings. We have yet to know who this lying - I am at a loss for words what to call her than can be posted- is.
I doubt we will remember anything about her a month from now.</p>
<p>-this story will follow these boys around for life. Duke has invited 2 of them back to school; they have declined. It is any wonder.</p>
<p>While I fully appreciate protecting victims of sexual assult, I am of the opinion the pendulum has swung too far to one side, for if the acused are indeed found "innocent," then the charges are nothing but lies, and the aka "victim" should be held accountable for harm done as a result.</p>
<p>In the case of the duke lacrosse team, it is more than 3 lives ruined- it is 3 families, and I will venture to say it extends out to 3 communities. There has got to be a better way of doing this.</p>
<p>There is something terribly wrong when the innocent have to be financially ruined, not to mention ruined in many other ways, just to defend their innocence, only to be found innocent afterall!!!!!......and the acusor walks away scott free. Perhaps the losing side should bear the brunt of the cost of both sides if the liability is 100% theirs.</p>
<p>what am i missing????? Seems to be a world gone mad.....</p>
<p>Navy secretary orders former QB to repay $90,000</p>
<p>Published in the BS:</p>
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Lamar S. Owens Jr., the former Navy quarterback who was convicted of two felonies after having sex with a female classmate in the Naval Academy dormitory, will be expelled with no degree and will owe the school more than $90,000, Navy officials said yesterday.</p>
<p>The Navy secretary, Donald C. Winter, deemed his conduct "unsatisfactory" and ordered him discharged, though Owens, 23, was acquitted in July of rape and supporters had launched a campaign in his behalf of letter-writing, organizing on the Internet and lobbying in Annapolis and Washington....
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<p>I hope that the Lamar Owens and Kenny Ray Morrison cases send a loud and clear message to the Brigade of Midshipmen. Unfortunately, part of that message is that there are double standards at the Academy.</p>
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A former Naval Academy midshipman who was acquitted of rape but found guilty of lesser charges will be expelled with no degree and must repay the school more than $90,000, Navy officials said Thursday.</p>
<p>Navy Secretary Donald C. Winter, called Lamar Owens Jr.’s conduct “unsatisfactory” and ordered him discharged....
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<p>Must repay nearly $91,000 for tuition</p>
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Former Navy football star Lamar S. Owens Jr. will be expelled from the Naval Academy and required to repay nearly $91,000 of his tuition as a result of conduct that led to a court-martial last year, the Navy announced yesterday.</p>
<p>While Mr. Owens was acquitted of rape in the case, Secretary of the Navy Donald C. Winter "determined that his conduct has been unsatisfactory and he will be discharged from the U.S. Naval Academy and the naval service," a Navy statement read....
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<p>How do you feel about Lamar Owens being expelled from the Naval Academy and having to repay more than $90,000?</p>
<p>Owens' lawyer also objects to order to repay Navy $90,000 for education</p>
<p>Published in the BS:</p>
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[quote]
The defense team of Lamar S. Owens Jr., the former quarterback who was convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer for having sex with a female classmate in the Naval Academy dormitory, vowed yesterday to fight his expulsion and the requirement that he repay more than $90,000 in education costs.</p>
<p>In a written statement, Reid Weingarten, Owens' civilian defense attorney, said he was "extremely disappointed" with Navy Secretary Donald Winter's decision because the Savannah, Ga., native was acquitted in July of rape....
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</p>
<p>Published in the Annapolis Capital:</p>
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The Navy finally came to a decision last week in the case of Midshipman 1st Class Lamar Owens, who last year was acquitted of rape charges by a court-martial.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, we don't feel that justice was done.</p>
<p>Navy Secretary Donald Winter announced Thursday that Midshipman Owens, the former quarterback of the Navy football team, will be expelled from the Naval Academy with no degree, and will owe the academy about $91,000 - two-thirds of the cost of his education....
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