@northwesty Oops. *Good morning. Haha:)
IDK why they would give a hoot what anyone thinks of their favoribility towards legacies. they are a private institution so they really only have to answer to themselves, they have no problem getting great kids to apply, and one can draw a straight line from the high legacy rate to the high yield rate. It is part of what makes ND ND.
@wdfa89 Just look up “Legacy College Admissions Wall Street Journal Melissa Korn” and you will see a good example of why Notre Dame very much gives a hoot about the perception of legacy preference. You’re entirely correct about drawing “a straight line from the high legacy rate to the high yield rate.” ND’s yield rate is undoubtedly protected by its large legacy contingent. As other posters on here have pointed out, ND uses legacy as a yield protection. Lots of other top-20 schools use binding Early Decision.
“IDK why they would give a hoot what anyone thinks of their favoribility towards legacies.”
The graphic in the WSJ article GA cited showed ND with the most legacies (by a large amount) among the peer schools cited. And also the fewest first gen students (again by a large amount). The 3-1 ratio of legacies to first gens is probably not a narrative that ND is excited about.
But it pretty much comes with the turf. ND’s brand strongly emphasizes Catholic, community and family. While a big legacy enrollment is very consistent with that, those things aren’t going to win you any diversity awards.
I apologize for the lack of clarity in my statement. What I meant was I doubt ND is concerned w/outside negative critique of it’s legacy policies. I think it is very happy w/how it handles legacies, has no problem w/that being known and perceived. If it was concerned they could easily change their admittance policies. But they don’t. And even w/ widespread knowledge of their preferential treatment of legacies, they still are flooded with apps from non-legacy kids. And, I think their treatment of legacies also directly ties to their fundraising prowess. My oldest applied knowing the non-leg (and non Catholic) probably made it harder. Then again, my next kid applied thinking she has an extra card in her hand. worked out for both.
ND is clearly happy with the number of legacies it takes – that’s definitely an ND thing. And no one should get too excited if ND declines some non-legacy, smart, white, Catholic suburban HS kids in order to take some additional legacy, smart, white, Catholic suburban HS kids instead.
But, as Don Bishop concedes in the WSJ article, ND needs to do much better in recruiting economic diversity. First gen/legacy numbers from that article fwiw:
ND 7%, 24%
Colgate 7.8%, 7.2%
UVA 11.9%, 15%
Duke 12%, 12%
Cornell 12.9%, 16.5%
Brown 13%, 11%
Dartmouth 13%, 11.7%
Yale 16.6%, 11.9%
Princeton 17%, 13%
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@wdfa89 I think Notre Dame is aware of and concerned about outside negative perceptions about its legacy admissions policies. Don Bishop, the head of enrollment at ND, is on record about the negative press ND receives about legacy.
For ND, the positives just significantly outweigh the negatives when it comes to legacy. The main negative is that ND favors legacy kids (implying a detrimental impact to non-legacy applicants), which in turn feeds into the negative view of ND as a place lacking racial and socioeconomic diversity. ND is definitely concerned about all of these, which is why the admissions office now makes a point to highlight Students of Color and Lower Socioeconomic Students / Pell recipients in its brochures.
But the positives associated with a large legacy cohort are well documented. Legacy applicants help protect ND’s excellent yield rate of 57%. Probably 75% (if not 80%) of legacy admits end up enrolling. The average academic profile of the legacy cohort, taken as a whole, doesn’t really diminish ND’s lofty admissions stats either because the upper quartile of legacy students are some of ND’s strongest applicants. These upper quartile legacy students counterbalance the lower quartile of legacy students whose legacy status tips the scale in their favor, so that overall the legacy students have an average academic profile in line with the non-legacies. Also, the big legacy component allows ND to remain an REA school, rather than going the ED route to protect its yield. And as @northwesty has pointed out numerous times, ND’s legacy policies help fuel the intangibles that make ND, well, ND: tradition-laden, sense of family/community, proud alums who give back, etc.
So ND cares about the perceptions, but the benefits of legacy are too great to ignore. Now, if the legacy rate at ND ever drops below 21% of an incoming class, that will be a telltale sign that ND is starting to de-emphasize legacy to some extent.