<p>i believe that the majority of the prestige comes from the fact that it is an ivy league. </p>
<p>another thing to mention is that ivy schools can get extremely competitive very fast, but I do believe that this is different at ND. ND is not a religious cult either, numerous non Catholics apply, are enrolled, and graduate. That being said, a great number of ND students are devoted Catholics who are able to express their beliefs at ND. ND does not force anyone to become a Catholic, they simply expose their students to another belief and way of thinking which can not hurt.</p>
<p>The prestige associated with Dartmouth stems from the fact that it is highly selective and its graduates obtain job opportunities that ND grads oftentimes have a hard time breaking into (for example, when I was in school, McKinsey only recruited at the Ivy Plus schools–Ivies plus UChicago, Duke, Stanford and MIT). Whether or not the aforementioned stems from being an Ivy League school is debatable, but also inconsequential.</p>
<p>As for exposing your kids to Catholic beliefs, you say that it “can not hurt” but I wonder if you’d be whistling the same tune if your kid wanted to go to a school where Scientology was infused into everyday life and your kid was exposed to their beliefs (even if they didn’t force anyone to become Scientologist). I suspect you feel that subjecting someone to Catholic ideology can’t hurt because you agree with Catholic ideology. My point, and I stand by it, is that many people do not want to be subjected to this. Therefore, despite being a fine school in many respects, keep in mind that signing on to four years at ND is signing on to a Catholic institution for four years.</p>
<p>there are only 2 intro to philosophy/theology courses and 2 theology/philosophy class that are required… you can avoid any other connections if you so desire</p>
<p>i would also love to find out about other religions and beliefs, b/c in that way you are exposed to other views and can make informed decisions about what you belief.</p>
<p>maverick youre on an nd forum so bashing the school is going to get you nowhere fast. it’s obvious that you have an ivy-leagye bias and have not experienced nd in the least bit so…
my opinion is that your opinion is invalid.</p>
<p>Agree…Dartmouth is not necessarily a better education, but it is certainly more prestigious. It’s an Ivy, which is something Notre Dame still aspires to.</p>
<p>Also, their football teams have been about the same for a couple years.</p>
<p>“there are only 2 intro to philosophy/theology courses and 2 theology/philosophy class that are required… you can avoid any other connections if you so desire”</p>
<p>No, you cannot avoid any other connections. You live in a residential system, each house headed up by a priest. You live in a dorm where members of the opposite sex are not allowed past certain hours. Most importantly, you are surrounded on all sides–professors, fellow students–by people that generally hold certain beliefs and viewpoints. </p>
<p>Many people embrace ND specifically because it is a Catholic institution. For those people, ND is a perfect fit. But those trying to insist that this belief system does not permeate the rest of the ND experience are lying or misinformed.</p>
<p>“Most importantly, you are surrounded on all sides–professors, fellow students–by people that generally hold certain beliefs and viewpoints.”</p>
<p>Again, you don’t have a clue. If nothing else, the recent controversy over the Obama invitation should demonstrate quite clearly that the above statement is false. You will find administrators, faculty, and students on both sides of this and most other issues.</p>
<p>In fact, I’d suggest that you are far more likely to find uniformity of belief on the campus of any elite private school (HYP, Duke, Stanford, etc.) than you will at Notre Dame. How many students at Harvard would object to Obama’s visit on the grounds that he is virulently pro-abortion? How many students at Princeton voted for McCain? How many Duke faculty members are opposed to same-sex marriage?</p>
<p>Maverick has only the very slightest idea what he is talking about. Each DORM(not house) is not necessarily headed up by a priest. Only 70% of the men’s dorms have priests as rectors, and none of the women’s dorms do. And the presence of a Priest as head of the dorm does not force Catholic beliefs on anyone. They don’t preach doctrine; they act solely in a pastoral sense, helping you to find your place in the community and assisting you with anything you might have trouble with. Though ND had some religious considerations in making the decision about that policy, living in a single sex dorm has nothing inherently religious about it. Single sex dorms have been, and still are to a degree, commonly seen on college campuses, religious or not. And you are certainly NOT surrounded on all sides by people who hold the same beliefs and viewpoints. If anything, ND has a more even 50/50 split when it comes to conservative/liberal and religious/secular worldviews than other universities, making it less likely that you become indoctrinated or biasedly influenced toward certain beliefs. Professors tend to show very little political bias; in fact the only biased professor I had was a liberal Jewish anthropologist who had gone to Berkeley. And fellow students have views of all kinds. But it’s interesting how you try to group all ND people into that category of generally holding certain beliefs and viewpoints. That’s called prejudice. </p>
<p>There are a total of 4 somewhat religious classes you must take (2 philo, 2 theo). Note that theology and philosophy are taught at many non-religious affiliated colleges.</p>
<p>Many people embrace ND for many reasons, some because they are Catholic, some non-Catholic because they appreciate Catholicism for the values it embraces, some because they are Irish, some because they love football and tradition, and all because ND is excellent academically. You, sir, are the misinformed one. The Catholicism and all that is commensurate with it is all there if one so chooses to participate, but if you don’t, it doesn’t surround you.</p>
<p>As a point of interest, ND and UVA, a private Catholic and non-affiliated public University, topped the businessweek ranking of undergrad b-schools. Neither is an IVY. Although I’m sure Maverick will reject such a ranking as meaningless in the real world, it is notable nonetheless.</p>
<p>“Only 70% of the men’s dorms have priests as rectors, and none of the women’s dorms do. And the presence of a Priest as head of the dorm does not force Catholic beliefs on anyone. They don’t preach doctrine; they act solely in a pastoral sense, helping you to find your place in the community and assisting you with anything you might have trouble with. Though ND had some religious considerations in making the decision about that policy, living in a single sex dorm has nothing inherently religious about it. Single sex dorms have been, and still are to a degree, commonly seen on college campuses, religious or not.”</p>
<p>I was going to be more diplomatic about it, but I’ve changed my mind. LIES, LIES, LIES! Notre Dame itself, in its job posting for rectors, describes their role as follows: “Living alongside students in the residence hall and accompanying them on their journey of faith…” Women’s dorms don’t have priests as rectors (because women cannot be priests in the Catholic faith…hmmmm), but, again according to Notre Dame itself, 70% of all dorms have “Rectors [that] are professed religious (priests, brothers, or sisters).” So your statement above that “none of the women’s dorms do” is at worst false, at best misleading.</p>
<p>Single sex dorms are common (although, so are co-ed dorms; in fact, mine had co-ed bathrooms). But that is NOT the point, nor is that the point I made. My point was about the rules regarding opposite sex visitation. Most campuses have the option of single sex dorms, but name me the school (that is not religiously affiliated) where all dorms have rules prohibiting having members of the opposite sex past a certain hour.</p>
<p>“As a point of interest, ND and UVA, a private Catholic and non-affiliated public University, topped the businessweek ranking of undergrad b-schools. Neither is an IVY. Although I’m sure Maverick will reject such a ranking as meaningless in the real world, it is notable nonetheless.”</p>
<p>Yes, rankings in general are not notable. Rankings about undergrad business programs especially so. Most schools do not even have undergraduate business programs, and comparing the value of an ND undergrad business degree to those of other u-grad business programs doesn’t tell you very much when that person is also competing in the real world against those that have econ degrees from Northwestern or Harvard or wherever. </p>
<p>In my opinion, and in the opinion of many of those in the business community, undergraduate business programs should not even exist. Business degrees are intended for those that already have a proper foundation from which to further the discussion. Premature specialization is a major problem in higher education today, and too many kids are graduating college without the basic fundamentals required for a true critical thinker.</p>
<p>What a website states is not always in fact the best explanation of what the reality of the situation is. You should know that. Nothing is forced on anyone. Note it says journey of faith, not journey through Catholicism. And of course they’re there to guide you on that if you want it. They’d be **** poor religious if they weren’t willing to help THOSE THAT ASK FOR IT. You sound like a fool proclaiming the statements of ND students, who know the reality on the ground, to be lies.</p>
<p>My statement was neither misleading nor false. It responded to your allegation that each house is headed up by a priest. And by the way, there is a big difference between priests and sisters; a sister is not a female counterpart to a priest. And no, women cannot be priests in the Catholic faith; it is theologically impossible and the Church has no authority to appoint them. This point has been explained and backed up quite thoroughly by those who are most educated in the matter. Someone outside the Church without a very thorough understanding of the issue has no grounds on which to claim it is biased, sexist, etc.</p>
<p>For being such a prestigious Ivy League grad it’s rather pathetic that you spend time ■■■■■■■■ this forum and then investigating Notre Dame’s website looking for ammo that you can then distort into your mudslinging.</p>
<p>Lies Lies Lies? The only liar here is you, an ignorant, arrogant, misinformed (supposed) Ivy League grad with too much time on his hands.</p>
<p>Again, having quiet hours in the dorm (midnight to 9 am weekdays, 2 am to 9 am weekends) is not an imposition of values–it’s a matter of courtesy to all residents. Once again, you speak of that which you don’t understand.</p>
<p>Maverick is a joke and has nothing better to do.</p>
<p>Bottom line…I don’t know of any of my fellow Notre Dame business friends that AREN’T dominating in life. If you get a degree in accountancy then you have a “Big Four” job waiting for you…guaranteed. Finance majors do real well too…my sister went to ND and works at Goldman Sachs in Chicago. They basically only heavily recruit (for the Chicago office) at Ivies, Northwestern, Notre Dame, and some University of Michigan as well. The other majors get ridiculous placement as well.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is great and I wouldn’t mind boasting I graduated from there. The pedigree of an Ivy league education doesn’t carry AS MUCH weight as it used to (don’t misunderstand me, though…it still does a ton for it’s graduates–except maybe Brown and Cornell hahaha). However, you wouldn’t understand how much much of a smile I have on my face when I tell people I went to Notre Dame. It raises more eyebrows with adults than some Ivies do. More importantly, Notre Dame’s focus on catholic values and ethics makes its graduates more valuable in the marketplace. </p>
<p>Take a chill-pill Maverick and stop trying to act like you know it all. Notre Dame’s repertoire speaks for itself, bro.</p>
<p>Maverick is completely right. Absolutely no one outside of the Midwest will care that you went to Notre Dame. And before you attack me, I am a graduate of the school. If you want to get a job in finance anywhere outside of Chicago, Indianapolis, Cleveland, or Fort Wayne, do not go to ND. Financial firms in the Northeast will recruit undergrads from Villanova over you. Maverick is also right about the worthless nature of the undergraduate business degree. </p>
<p>I did not enjoy my experience at ND, but I blame it more on myself for not doing the necessary research before choosing to go here. The Catholic aspect wasn’t that big of a deal (I was nominally raised Catholic but am an atheist)- I avoided dorm mass, and none of my friends were religious, so I didn’t even notice. The screwed-up gender relations were a cause for concern, but it wasn’t the worst of it. It’s the completely unfounded sense of superiority that the students have for themselves for attending the #18 ranked school on the USNews and World Report. Don’t get me wrong- it’s a good school that someone should not be ashamed to attend, but it’s not Dartmouth, let alone Harvard. If you’re okay with attending school with 8,000 ND versions of Andy from the Office, and if you’re looking forward to moving to Lincoln Park in Chicago post-graduation so you can bathe in your awesomeness for perpetuity, then go to ND. </p>
<p>I’ll make a disclaimer that I am in the distinct minority of graduates who share this opinion. Almost everyone else absolutely loved it, so you can ignore my comments as the rants of an imbittered misanthrope. </p>
<p>And oh yeah…the controversy over Obama speaking at commencement (the fact that there’s a controversy at all) is doing wonders for our reputation.</p>
<p>Without getting into this debate too much, I just want to say that I am one of the alums who disagrees with lilowl. A degree from Notre Dame does matter in the real world. I found that it helped me a great deal with applying to Clinical Psychology PhD programs. I know that doesn’t sound impressive, but Clinical Psychology PhD programs are EXTREMELY selective, with the least selective programs still accepting less than 10%. By acceptance rate it is far more selective than most medical and law schools. I received many more interviews and was able to get into one of my top schools I believe in large part to my Notre Dame degree.</p>
<p>I have thought about what if I was coming from a different university because I spent a year at Creighton University before transferring to ND. Without a doubt, I wouldn’t have been accepted from Creighton. It is a great school, but it doesn’t have the resources or opportunities which are required to make you an appealing candidate. Notre Dame had those resources.</p>
<p>Take it for what it is worth. Also, anyone who says ND doesn’t matter outside the midwest hasn’t been to a lot of places. It mattered where I am now, and I am not in the midwest.</p>
<p>I’m from NY and without exception when you say “Notre Dame” it makes an impression. Many people from the East Coast know Notre Dame’s reputation and it is the dream school for tons of kids here. Also, at the open house in Manhattan last year we met many alums who all had very high-end lucrative jobs. So, I’m sorry for your bad experience lilowl but I just don’t see it your way.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that Notre Dame is a terrible school. I had many more opportunities afforded to me by attending ND than I would have if I had attended my state school. But the truth is, people on the coasts (particularly academics/intellectuals/pseudo-intellectuals) don’t have high regard for ND. I live in New York City and go to graduate school, so I hear it firsthand. And I know plenty of people from ND who work in finance here. Most of them did not get their jobs through normal campus recruiting because ND is not a target school for the major firms, at least in their offices outside the Midwest. They either had family connections or had something unusual going for them that allowed their resumes to pass HR.</p>
<p>this depends on major as well. while finance majors may not carry much wait (and to be honest i have no idea), architecture majors at ND have opportunity on the east coast, because of ND’s name.</p>
<p>"“As a point of interest, ND and UVA, a private Catholic and non-affiliated public University, topped the businessweek ranking of undergrad b-schools. Neither is an IVY.”</p>
<p>The vast majority of Ivies don’t even have undergraduate B-schools, as has been pointed out. This includes Dartmouth.</p>
<p>That little list, however, and all of the others like it, have been completely and totally owned by… an Ivy.</p>