Near shut out - Gap year or transfer?

Parents Forum
61

<p>mlfkeonig, I hope you and your S are feeling a little better this morning. What a shock this has been. It’s not what you expected to be dealing with. </p>

<p>Someone started another thread about how things have changed just in the last 5 years. Don’t beat yourself up with what might have been. But how can things go from here. </p>

<p>I have a niece who is a senior in high school this year. She is a great student and some good ec’s. Things didn’t work out for her they way they thought and she has options she didn’t really want. They know they made mistakes and are going to make a decision based on the options she has. </p>

62

<p>My kid’s school gave A+ and she had few of those. She only had one B+ while in high school. </p>

<p>Rutgers is actually a good school. It is just not a school most NJ kids with good stats aspire to go to. On the other hand, I would rather have my kid go to Rutgers than to go to other schools with rolling admission now. </p>

<p>I think it would be more genuine if OP were to say to the kid, “Hey, I know this isn’t your first choice and you didn’t expect for your college process to turn out this way. I know it is a disappointment for you to go Rutgers. You have few options, 1) Go to Rutgers, do really well and transfer, 2) Go to Rutgers, do really well (Who knows, maybe you’ll really like it.), and apply to a top tier graduate school, 3) take a gap year, do something meaningful (maybe do a PG at a boarding school) and re-apply. You need to decide what you want to do and we would support you with any decision you may make.” Instead of, “Hey, we are SO proud of you for getting into Rutgers. We know you are going to love it and have the best 4 years of your life.”</p>

63

<p>To answer the OP’s question about 4.0-plus GPAs: At many high schools, kids get extra points for AP or high honor classes, so an A in AP Bio is graded at 5.0 rather than 4.0. Therefore, the very top students will graduate with, say, a 4.8 or 4.9 “weighted.” My understanding is that during the admissions process most colleges “unweight” the GPA (though take into account whether the kid took the hardest-level courses available). So it’s unclear what your son’s GPA means. Colleges view it in the context of his particular school. They will assess his class standing (even if the school doesn’t rank they get a sense by comparing other candidates from the same school over the years). So his exact GPA isn’t really the issue–how it compares is what matters.</p>

64

<p>@momrath’s deferral suggestion is an excellent idea. That would guarantee the bottom line of a gap year. I just don’t know if there is any obligation when one is on a deferral in applying to other schools. Can anyone comment on that?</p>

65

<p>One the one hand, gap years can be valuable. On the other hand, they are EXTREMELY risky unless the year is spent doing something extremely valuable.</p>

<p>Currently, you obviously have no real plan for a gap year, which makes things even more risky. Plus, it is definitely a poor strategy when the student is reluctant to do it.</p>

<p>The only reason to attempt the gap year is so that a better match can occur. In other words a college better than Rutgers, but not as elite as the Ivies, etc… Perhaps, say, University of Rochester or Tulane, for example. AND even in such an instance, the only good reason is to obtain scholarships to such a college. Transfers are not all that hard, and obviously he is not going to attend and elite university unless he gets off the waitlist and into either Chicago or Dartmouth. That dream is over.</p>

<p>In short, a gap year can cause even more problems than it might solve. If the student is willing to attend Rutgers, and you can afford it, then that is the best choice unless a feasible, productive, and clear (crystal clear) plan is put in place for the gap year – soon!</p>

66

<p>If Rutgers is a truly and deeply disappointing choice, then immediately start looking at colleges which he could attend for one year. One excellent choice is St. Johns College in Annapolis, Maryland:
<a href=“http://www.sjca.edu/”>Concrete CMS Is An Open Source Content Management System For Teams;

<p>St. Johns has one of the most flexible “rolling admissions” in the country. So, probably still time to apply (but don’t waste time).</p>

<p>Very stimulating and intellectual environment. Students all study the same “Great Books” program (developed at U.Chicago over 50 years ago). Keeps his mind working at a high level, and ultimately he might decide to stay there. Admissions to med school and other professional programs are very high. St. Johns is NOT Catholic, despite the name. These are smart students and the program is rigorous.</p>

67

<p>As you know, Rutgers can provide a great education, but it is a big school. No way around that. Environmental science is in a separate school (used to be Cook College) so that may help a bit with the size. Also, a big school offers lots of different kinds of kids and so he should be able to find his “people”, although it may take a bit longer than at a small school.</p>

<p>Many top NJ students are disappointed to be going to Rutgers - they feel like they worked harder than they may have had to if they were “only” going to Rutgers, but are happy once they are there. If finances are a consideration, especially if you are in the “too well off for financial aid, but can’t afford our EFC” crowd like many of us from high cost states like NJ, merit money is likely very hard to come by at most colleges with a higher rank than Rutgers - even with the NMF. If you have financial need, the equation may be different, but many schools still gap.</p>

<p>A gap year could be great if he has something set up or if you can afford either a “prep year” or a program. Otherwise, it could be very tough on him to live at home with not much to do and no friends around (or friends that are still in high school). </p>

<p>Sorry for the situation, but it really will end up being OK. </p>

68

<p>Did your USNA rep tell your son why he didn’t receive an appt? Did he receive his MOC slot or was he stuck at that level? Was he DQed for any reason or seeking a waiver? </p>

<p>His NROTC scholie is very valuable to not use it. PackMom is right and as I mentioned in my previous post it is possible to locate a NROTC unit that is not full for this coming year and they can have some pull at admissions. More than a “tip” from a coach to an athlete, this is a commanding officer at the university level. If he wants your kiddo he can have leverage. </p>

<p>Go to the NROTC website or call your Navy liason and find out which schools have openings. You could stumble upon a school your son likes better than Rutgers and his Navy officer goals would remain intact. If we knew the reason why USNA appt didn’t come through he might have some options there as well.</p>

<p><a href=“Naval Education and Training Command - NETC”>Naval Education and Training Command - NETC;

<p>UNC, NCSU and Duke all have NROTC, also UofR, UNM, RIT, Fordham, Georgetown, USD, Holy Cross, Notre Dame, CMU, Villanova, Vanderbilt, Rice, Old Dominion, UVA, GATech, VMI, Marquette…here are more, but if you can find 1 in this group that has an opening all these schools would be great!</p>

<p>Is USNA the only academy he would consider? West Point and the Coast Guard would like his scores. And unlike USNA which puts a premium on “Tier 1” engineering majors his bio or lit major wouldn’t put him at such a disadvantage. USNA mission has been revamped and is focusing on engineering majors mostly and urban commando assault, increasing their need for marines rather than SWO.</p>

<p>And USNA could look at him again for next year even if he attends Rutgers. That is why it is important to find out why he didn’t receive his appt. USNA doesn’t take transfers BUT he can still re-apply. He would do his freshman year again but if he was repeating the same classes his plebe year would be that much easier for him academically so he could concentrate on all the non-academics that the academy requires from you and he might come out way ahead come graduation. And time for service selection…he could ask for law school at the service expense and then JAG. That’s a long ways away but Packmom’s son wanted special ops and that’s where he landed after NROTC at our local university.</p>

<p>Your son needs to step back and think about what he really wants. Not short term in what is he going to do for fall, but how to plan this out for the long haul. I don’t think a 3.7 is low coming from a magnet, but that’s just me. Again that NROTC scholie is very valuable and I would do all I could to keep it. Being a ring knocker in the Navy isn’t as important as it is in the army. And depending on your MOS it can get in the way. So do what you can to salvage it.</p>

<p>Looks like Rutgers New Brunswick has NROTC, are they full?</p>

<p>Kat</p>

69

<p>Great, great advice Kat! </p>

70

<p>@katwkittens‌
I agree with your ideas on the NROTC scholarship, and support that general approach.</p>

<p>However, I think that it is a very poor idea to ask why USNA rejected him. The better approach is to ask how he could improve his chances for next year. If he has no intention of trying again then there is no need for getting any feedback at all. Like the Ivies, competition for USNA is so intense that there simply is not enough room for all qualified candidates. On the other hand, if he was disqualified they would have told him, so there would be no need to ask about that. When USNA rejected me, they said that it was my eyesight (although looking back, I suspect that there was more too it).</p>

<p>To salvage the NROTC scholarship requires immediate action. The first step is to contact NROTC and ask for guidance; especially on which schools have openings in their quotas. The second step is to figure out which colleges might still admit him, and apply even if it seems too late.</p>

71

<p>Yes, thanks Kat, and others who have posted too, lots of great information here! He did get a nomination for the USNA, just found out yesterday that he was not accepted, so we would need to follow up with his rep to find out what happened. He did have to seek a waiver but it was granted. I suspect he was not admitted because he did not come across as 100% positive he wanted to go the military route. We will also have to find out about transferring the NROTC scholarship to an open spot. Rutgers does have NROTC, we have to talk about if he would want to pursue that. </p>

<p>Many of the schools you mentioned would be very good options for him if there are slots available. Have to talk to commanding officer, will follow up on these possibilities next week! Also will look into some of the other programs listed here.</p>

72

<p>

</p>

<p>I didn’t think I would see a suggestion to a denied Naval Academy applicant to go to St John’s College. The students are so different, especially during their annual croquet match.</p>

73

<p>Understand about the USNA, actually the academies in general. Have 2 sons, back to back years that applied and received early nominations and appointments to USNA, Air Force Academy and West Point. Second son applying had a more difficult time since his brother the year before had gotten in to all 3 only to turn them down for an ivy, and NOT his ROTC scholie to MIT!! Second brother did not disappoint and ended up at Annapolis.</p>

<p>So we are a family well-acquainted with the long and lengthy and intricate process of applying to the academies. Son at USNA met many who did not get in on their first attempt but tried again and were successful. They are looking for dedication and tenacity…can make a real difference later. Same with son now in medical school, many of his peers took more than 1 application cycle to gain an acceptance. </p>

<p>Again after reading about your son Mlfkoenig, if it where my son I would think about that gap year very seriously. Sometimes boys take a little longer than girls in solidifying what they want and how to get there. With your son’s SAT scores, his ROTC scholie , his GPA, ECs and athletics I can understand how he feels. And I could envision with a well-though out gap year plan that his choices if strategically chosen might lead to a different outcome.</p>

<p>I guess it also depends on your family’s risk aversion matrix, how much are y’all willing to gamble? I have a bunch of big risk-takers so I KNOW what mine would do!!</p>

<p>Good luck and congrats to your son on ROTC scholie and his nomination…that in itself is a FANTASTIC accomplishment.</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

74

<p>“On the other hand, they are EXTREMELY risky unless the year is spent doing something extremely valuable.”</p>

<p>What’s the big risk with a gap year? If you have a kid from a culture where no one goes to college and you fear he’ll get stuck in a rut with his low-achieving classmates, then yes, I see some risk not going to college right away. For a high-achieving middle-class kid who was aspiring to Ivies, there’s no way in the world he’s not going to college, so I don’t see any risk. As long as he does something other than sit around and watch TV, his application will be the same or stronger next year. A year flipping burgers does not hurt your application at all – it helps it.</p>

<p>I have never seen a student who I thought was hurt by a gap year unless they didn’t fill the time at all. Volunteering, travel, work, etc. are all neutral to positive.</p>

75

<p>^^^Agree, IF they can afford to travel or can get a job beyond the service industry or an interesting volunteer experience. The kids I know tended to end up take community college courses and being a bit bored stuck at home. </p>

76

<p>Hanna, the gap year is risky if you do not fill it with serious activity, and do not really want to do it anyway. If this was the students idea, and he had some great plans for the year, then I could recommend it. It is only not a risk for people who have prepared for it.</p>

<p>Plus, I am not sure we know the situation with this family. Apparently there was little understanding of the risk of applying mostly to Ivies. I would disagree with the “flipping burgers” angle, too. For the same reason. We don’t understand this specific situation.</p>

<p>Rutgers in the honors program should be sufficient for anybody. Apparently the student prefers that over a gap year. Good for him.</p>

77

<p>I’m in the camp of Rudgers, with a transfer maybe or not.</p>

78

<p>Questions for the OP…</p>

<p>Who is in charge of this college selection process? You or your son?</p>

<p>I wonder why he applied to USNA but was not all that enthusiastic about the military.
I wonder why the issue of the gap year is not his preference, but this is still an open question.
I wonder why he mostly applied to Ivies, or equivalent, but was rejected despite outstanding stats.
I wonder why Rutgers honors might not help him realize his full potential. REALLY? SERIOUSLY?</p>

<p>Also, is he really interested in Naval ROTC? Was it his idea?</p>

79

<p>You have gotten so many responses I am not going to read them all so I apologize if another has already suggested what I am going to. </p>

<p>I normally think a gap year is a great idea but not for the reasons you are considering it for him. I personally would say go Rutgers-love the one that loves you-and make the best of it or transfer. I think it will be harder to do better if he starts from scratch with applications after a gap year, for the reasons bill and hanna mentioned above, including letters of rec possibly not being as strong. </p>

<p>One option I have not seen suggested is to defer at Rutgers for a year, undertake a meaningful gap experience, give applications round 2 all he can, and if he still doesn’t get what he/you hope, he still has Rutgers as an option. I would not give up the Rutgers option. It is a good school. </p>

<p>Based on where your son was waitlisted, he is impressive. Good luck sorting it out.</p>

80

<p>NROTC grad:
REALLY, SERIOUSLY, what are you implying? He was in charge of this process.The one thing I have learned from this thread is that many parents appear to be the ones driving the car when it comes to college apps. He made the plan in consultation with his GC. I have since spoken to her about the outcome and she was VERY surprised by how things have turned out. </p>

<p>Whether it was right to let him be in charge I can’t say, it certainly didn’t turn out as hoped, but I also think he SHOULD be the one in charge of the process. Further, given that my husband had a serious accident in the fall and our other son was diagnosed with a serious medical condition at the same time, we did the best we could.</p>

<p>My son is 18. He doesn’t know the benefits or downsides to a gap year. He ultimately will be the one to decide whether to do it or not, but I would like him to be informed about the potential upsides and downsides before he discounts it out of hand. Why is this hard for you to understand?</p>

<p>While the final decision will by my son’s, I believe the best approach may be to see if he can defer to Rutgers for a year, take advantage of opportunities for a gap year (we may be able to set him up with an NGO as an environmental or environmental law volunteer), and apply to less competitive schools next year. </p>

<p>I appreciate the constructive advice many have provided.</p>