<p>For most high school graduates, economic reality is that gap year activities must be primarily paid work, not world travel that require generous parental support to help with the costs.</p>
<p>Although if they let go of the idea of traveling for a full year, they could do what my daughter did and work for six months to fund six months of travel.</p>
<p>I’ve got nothing against a gap year for a kid that wants a gap year, or that doesn’t seem to be quite ready to go to college. But neither of these reasons apply to this kid. He shouldn’t do a gap year to mark time so that he can go to another school that is maybe half a notch up from Rutgers next year. If he wants that, he should go to Rutgers and transfer next year.</p>
<p>If the original OP is still reading, he /she should follow cardinal Fang’s advice. </p>
<p>CF, you should also show this thread to your friends who are compiling a list of reaches, mentioned on another thread.</p>
<p>The ambivalence about Rutgers is classic NE and NYC snobbery. That part of the country is the most status conscious of any region in America. Anywhere else Rutgers would be considered a great college. The problem is that it is a public school, not private. Thus, yes, people look down on it. Rutgers provides an excellent education. It is just that the students are not rich enough to get respect.</p>
<p>For what it is worth, people in the Navy would respect somebody from Rutgers. If he is serious about the military, then Rutgers is a fine choice.</p>
<p>Techfall wrote:</p>
<p>If he gets into Chicago, that’s it - he would wrestle there and be a great fit. The only way to use wrestling otherwise would be by taking a PG year and doing well in the prep nationals.</p>
<p>I don’t know when the wrestling nationals are, but I assume that since its a winter sport, it must take place between Nov and Feb. Keep in mind that most of the Ivy and D1 coaches make their picks for the 2015 incoming class between July and late November of 2014. So if you want him to take a PG year and focus on doing well in the nationals, he may have to wait TWO YEARS to get the coaches attention.</p>
<p>If you live in NJ, have you considered Lawrenceville? They have a PG program, not sure about their wrestling however.</p>
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<p>Leaving out the ROTC component, which I am clueless about: honors colleges at many state flagships (Maryland, Delaware, Vermont). University of Wisconsin, University of Michigan. LACs that used to be all-female, like Vassar and Skidmore. LACs in the south and midwest, like Rhodes, Knox, Grinnell, Kenyon. For more realistic reaches, I’d look at top schools in the south and west – the Claremont colleges, Vanderbilt, Emory. I would also look at Lehigh, Bucknell, Colgate, Union, Hamilton, Lafayette. </p>
<p>And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. There really is a world of great colleges outside of the Ivies. </p>
<p>The two Maine schools, Bates and Bowdoin, would also be appropriate for this kid. I’d say Whitman, a little gem, but it’s ridiculously far for a NJ kid. Middlebury and Haverford, maybe reachy but not ridiculous.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the good thoughts. As far as wrestling, most coaches leave a slot or two open pending the end of the HS season in early March. To nrotcgrad, there is not snobbery at work here. Both parents went to public universities at one point or another. And chill with your broad assertions about elitism and geography. To menloparkmom - I don’t know about Menlo Park, but where we are most kids are progeny of two parents, and I’m the other. Anyway, if he takes a year off, he would likely apply to a group of LACs and places where he seems to match up well. Thanks again. </p>
<p>There are ways to make Rutgers feel smaller…Being in the Honors program, for one. You will have a smaller group of students that you will be in classes with. Also, there are interest oriented housing that does the same. </p>
<p>I am so confused.</p>
<p>Who is the OP and are we responding to two different parents about the merits of Rutgers vs. Gap year? And to the OP- has your son clarified what happens to NROTC if he takes a Gap year- does that evaporate? And OP- can you afford a school like Skidmore or Vasser or Vanderbilt without the ROTC funding???</p>
<p>We’re responding to both parents of the kid, techfall and the OP.</p>
<p>Cardinal- thanks for the clarification- two parents, same kid.</p>
<p>OP and spouse- what happens to the NROTC scholarship if your son takes a gap year, and are ANY of these other colleges we’re all throwing in affordable if that goes away? If Rutgers is the only financially viable option- isn’t that the answer??? Gap or no Gap?</p>
<p>Blossom - we will have to take finances into account when we evaluate the options. Some of the colleges suggested throughout this thread probably are in reach financially and others are not, unless scholarships are available. We will have to look at that and also what would happen to the ROTC scholie. We are considering every option and trying to determine what the ramifiactions are of each. We have lots of homework to do.</p>
<p>Did not mean to confuse anyone by both of us posting here. I started as OP and significant other became interested in the thread.</p>
<p>mlfkoenig and techfall, if money is a significant consideration, then your son should go to Rutgers. He would certainly be a candidate for merit money at many schools, but the top LACs and universities don’t offer merit money (they don’t have to). In order to get the big merit money at a private school, he would have to drop down in selectivity. If the choice is to wait a year and go to a school that is about as selective as Rutgers, or not wait a year and go to Rutgers…</p>
<p>Your son would probably get merit money at many universities, including some/many that may be better for him than Rutgers. The choice isn’t “no merit or Rutgers”. There are LOTS of schools that may fit him better academically that offer merit scholarships.
Be aware that if he attends college (anywhere), he won’t qualify for any merit aid (or, to be less definitive: he will not qualify for nearly as much merit aid anywhere and will no longer be eligible for the best financial aid at virtually all campuses).
Have your son look at the “guaranteed scholarships” thread as well as the “competitive scholarships” thread - would he apply to some of these programs and would he like them better than Rutgers?
If so, a gap year would be a good idea. It should be filled with activities though - part time work at the supermarked to encounter the adult world outside school and research somewhere, for instance. NO community college or other class. “empty” gap years don’t help (understatement). A year abroad, studying in lycée or gymnasium or liceo, would also work nicely.
When making your list, regardless of stats, consider that no school can be a match if it doesn’t admit at least 30% students.</p>
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<p>He may very well be generally stubborn. However, you seem to think he is being stubborn because he does not agree that your good arguments are good arguments. He simply disagrees with you. That is not being stubborn. He is just telling you what he thinks.</p>
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<p>I didn’t take it personally. I just don’t understand why he applied there if he didn’t want to go there. My kids didn’t apply to any school if they did not want to go to the school. </p>
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<p>I don’t think your son’s list was inappropriate. I think it was incomplete. It did not have any matches or safeties. My son loved U of Chicago but knew it was a reach. We didn’t stop him from applying there but we made sure he had other schools on his list where he was likely to be admitted. Plus-we made sure he liked the schools. He did not apply anywhere that he would not consider attending.</p>
<p>My oldest son had a 32 ACT, 3.9 UW GPA with all honors/AP classes. He was captain of 4 different teams, and won several scholar athlete awards. His list was:</p>
<p>USNA (accepted but could not attend due to medical issues)
Williams (rejected)
U of Chicago (rejected)
Hamilton (accepted)
Case Western (accepted and attended)</p>
<p>He also considered Franklin & Marshall, Denison, Bowdoin, Tufts, Middlebury, Washington & Lee. Case Western was a school that he really liked and he was accepted Early Action there so he did not apply to the other schools he was considering. His top choices (after USNA) were Chicago, Hamilton and Case Western.</p>
<p>I can’t really give a list for your son as I don’t know exactly what he wants as far as size, and feel of school. I don’t want you to think I am looking down at you because I’m not. I just want you to understand that if your son wants to move on with his life, that is a valid choice for him. </p>
<p>ProudPatroit, I don’t know why kids do what they do. I’ve been talking to a friend. Different situation than op but due to poor planning and not understanding the financial aid situation (parents can not/will not be able to pay their EFC) the child has two in state options that they didn’t want to attend and one pricey private that they will have to take out loans for. Why this child applied to a school they didn’t want to attend and why they didn’t apply to a safety they could attend is a mystery to me. I was shocked and annoyed when I found out that they were not going to have a choice they are happy with. </p>
<p>What I am trying to say is that sometimes things get away from kids who are 17,18. Parents are busy, they have jobs and other things going on. Guidance counselors have a lot of kids to deal with. They are not always aware of how fast things have changed in the last 5, 10 years. Also understand GC’s can’t make a kid do anything. Sometimes kids (and parents) hear what they want to hear. </p>
<p>I don’t want to place blame on what might have been done or how things should have been handled. That is all done and over. And what happened to this kid, happens outside of CC more often than you can imagine. </p>
<p>Oh and the friend I was talking to. Fancy private day school. Lots of college counseling. Still an outcome the family and student is not happy with. </p>
<p>Why I posted this, I’m not really sure. I guess I feel that new people come on here and they get a lot of criticism. If the wise parents of CC had seen this list in December they would be able to comment about the list. But now I feel is the time to not make judgement but to help figure out this situation. </p>
<p>Glad to see both parents engaged here and trying to figure out what comes next. Sorry this is so long. </p>
<p>I’m in the Parents of 2015 group and a very wise mother there advocates a deep list of schools with varying acceptance rates instead of a broad list of schools of the same general acceptance rate with one or two safeties especially for the high stat student. (I think the lower stat student already know this because, well, they know that rejection is very possible. they’ve been there already.) </p>
<p>I don’t know your son but here’s a sample deep list with their estimated acceptance rate: Amherst (15%), Colorado College (20%), Reed (35%), Whitman (50%), and Lewis and Clark (60%) and Hendrix College (80%). Obviously one can add more colleges anywhere along the continuum. In other words, aim high but put in similar colleges/universities that are less selective until you reach the safety. Of course, your child likes each and every school on that list.</p>
<p>good luck with whichever path your son takes.</p>
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<p>It depends what you mean by a 3.7. Our HS grades on a 100-pt scale. An A- starts at 93. On the charts I’ve seen, a 93/94 average – an A- – seems to range from a 3.7 to a 3.8. The OP stated that her kid’s 3.7 was an A.</p>
<p>My S got into both Dartmouth and the U of C with an (unweighted) A- average and a 2300+ SAT in 2008. Things have not changed THAT much since then. That was, I believe the height of the Baby Boom Echo or whatever they called it. (He didn’t apply to Cal or Northwestern.)</p>
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<p>Let’s talk ridiculous: in another thread a parent is being excoriated for thinking that Bowdoin was a match for her D with a 36 on the ACT and a GPA of 3.9 or 4.0 (I don’t recall precisely). Bowdoin has evidently been discovered, and its acceptance rate as around 15% this year. I haven’t checked, but I strongly doubt that Haverford and Middlebury are more selective than Bowdoin (even before this year). I agree that those schools, especially Bowdoin, could be fits for this student, and the fact that he is male would help a little. Being a middle class white kid from NJ will not help.</p>
<p>I agree that the student should have applied to a few more places where he was geographically desirable, advantaged by being male, and where the odds were just better. Finding a fit would be an issue at some of the better LACs, because they don’t tend towards ROTC candidates, but there are options. Maybe CMC instead of Pomona. Maybe Macalester instead of Carleton. U of Rochester and the Pitt honors college would have been good safeties. If he chooses to take a gap year and reapply, they should be considered.</p>
<p>Good luck, techfall and OP. There are people here who love to rake anyone over the coals whom they consider to be insufficiently humble. </p>
<p>@Consolation</p>
<p>Last year acceptance rate:
Haverford - 23%
Middlebury - 19%
Bowdoin - 14%</p>