<p>Guess we'll have to add an "ordnance" section to the "What to Pack for College" list...</p>
<p>
[quote]
guess they'll have to join the military instead.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What the hell are you trying to imply with that statement?</p>
<p>Somemom, yes, there are kids who are shafted. Happens all the time in any system. DNA testing is showing that some of those locked up for heinous crimes did not do them. So, it can happen. However, I have never heard of anyone who was a total innocent get into a lot of trouble regarding drug busts. They do offer up drug testing and someone who is clean is unlikely to get charged with anything. Never saw it happen. It does happen that someone gets blamed for more than his share of the action. </p>
<p>That's why not using drugs is a good idea.</p>
<p>I'm curious to learn more about the details. I notices that the reports said that others in the fraternities knew the drug dealing was going on. That's probably grounds for shutting down the frats, but probably not for arresting those people. I can't tell from the reports what the significance was, though.</p>
<p>"guess they'll have to join the military instead. </p>
<p>What the hell are you trying to imply with that statement?"</p>
<p>Not IMPLYING anything. Stating that the military is both accepting and recruiting individuals with criminal records, including those with drug offenses - both possession and small-time dealing. </p>
<p>No need to imply when there are facts that are easy to access. So instead of a career in Homeland Security, or an immediate career in criminal justice, individuals charged may choose (and/or find themselves recruited for) military careers.</p>
<p>man a lot of frats are getting busted.</p>
<p>I have to be more careful now./</p>
<p>Is anyone surprised by the fraternity/sorority involvement? Am I just naive? My son wants to join a fraternity next year, but this is making me think twice. When DH and I were in school, we were greek. Greeks, on the whole, were the campus leaders. Of course, a couple fraternities had one or two unscrupulaous members. I can't believe that this involves 6/16 fraternities at SDSU.</p>
<p>Statistically, both alcohol and drug use are associated with fraternity/sorority involvement. Does it mean all fraternities and/or sororities are alcohol or drug havens? No. Does it mean that all frat and sorority members are alcohol abusers or drug users? No. </p>
<p>Does it mean that statistically fraternity/sorority members are more likely to be involved? You bet. Don't complain to me; I don't collect the data. You can check it out in the annual data in the University of Michigan's Monitoring the Future survey.</p>
<p>Toldedo - understand your concern re frats but not sure what you can do to stop your son other than withhold funding (may work - perhaps not -depends on how expensive it is I guess).
Honestly, the more I read this stuff, the more I think we all should have our kids stay home and attend a CC. Less money, less drinking, less drugs. It's not just the greeks. ALL residential college students are more likely to drink heavily and do drugs. Yeah,the greeks even more...but if you're looking to avoid this scene, becoming a commuter student is the way to go.</p>
<p>I'm from San Diego, and this is pretty disgusting. Marijuana, I can sort of understand. The rest, just foolish.</p>
<p>Good thing I never said guns and cocaine were harmless. </p>
<p>Re: Greek involvement: I would imagine that the drug use of fraternities and sororities would be similar to that of college students in general, at least on a school-for-school basis. The problem is, if one or two members of an organization are arrested, and nationals finds out, that chapter is most likely done. The study mentioned also that those people that had higher rates of substance abuse in college also had higher rates of substance abuse in high school- well before any of them could pledge. </p>
<p>But then again- most congressmen and fortune 500 execs are greek. Maybe the trade-off is worth it.</p>
<p>Toneranger, staying home and being a commuter student isn't going to do it. Those kids get into trouble too. It seems to me they seem to get tougher penalties and get caught more. It was a very tough transition for my oldest son when he left the "sanctuary" of his college and had to deal with the real cops. As mentioned in other posts, police generally stay away from college campuses which allows more free flowing alcohol and drugs. It also means the kids there don't get caught as much. This bust is an anomoly which is why it is causing such a stir.</p>
<p>Edit to my last post: Haven't we all seen Scarface?</p>
<p>toneranger, nope, going to a community college is not going to be any safer, I'm afraid. Students, like someone pointed out, are very lucrative customers for the drug dealers:</p>
<p>Local</a> News | Heroin, cocaine dealer sentenced to 13 years | Seattle Times Newspaper</p>
<p>"Re: Greek involvement: I would imagine that the drug use of fraternities and sororities would be similar to that of college students in general, at least on a school-for-school basis."</p>
<p>You don't have to imagine. There's hard data. (It's not.)</p>
<p>Sometimes, though, there's just good, clean fun:</p>
<p>Boiling</a> water, pepper used in hazing, police say - CNN.com</p>
<p>The survey you reference also says that those kids had higher rates of substance abuse in high school. So, as a cohort study, it didn't normalize the groups at the beginning. So the groups they were comparing started differently, and ended differently. Not saying it's not true, but one cohort study- even a big one- does not mean correlation equals causation, especially when the two cohorts were not normalized from the start.</p>
<p>In reference to your link: Hazing is stupid, and anyone that submits to hazing to join a fraternity is a sheep. Why would anyone want to be part of a group that would do that to someone?</p>
<p>true that "hazing is stupid"</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
They just bring one more piece of evidence that we need gun control, which disgusts me even more.
[/QUOTE]
You can't be charged with possession of firearms if you are the legal owner of said firearms. Obviously, those weapons were acquired through extralegal means - no measure of legislative gun control can prevent that.</p>
<p>If I'm going to purchase a weapon to use with criminal intent, the last thing I'm going to do is go to a local FFL holder and submit a purchase form with all of my personal information on it that will then be tied (along with a state and/or federal background check) to the serial number of the weapon in question. But then, most people mouthing off about gun control provisions really have little or no idea of how the process actually works, do they?</p>
<p>Thus, "gun control" is already at work in this situation. We need better education and tighter enforcement of existing laws (along with strong mandatory punishment for those who break them), not more laws restricting legal acquisition of firearms. Instead, we get ridiculous provisions like a waiting period for handguns purchased through a licensed dealer while you can walk right into a Walmart and walk out minutes later with a shotgun.</p>
<p>CC/Commuter School attendance DOES make a difference if parents are paying attention:</p>
<p>From a 2005 study in the Journal of Student Development
The finding that perceived parenting continues to influence the commuter students' behavior is consistent with contemporary views on the developmental issues associated with these years in the lifespan. Arnett (2000) has suggested that the college years are developmentally part of a transitional period where individuals move beyond adolescence but do not quite reach full adult status. Emerging adults living at home benefit from perceived parental monitoring, which has been shown to be effective in earlier developmental [End Page 71] stages. As a transitional life stage, these emerging adults may not yet have internalized completely the values conveyed through effective parenting strategies and still need to feel that their parents are providing supervision. Students who leave home are at greater risk for substance use, in part, because they are not quite adults despite being away from their parents and do not have the protective factors that more proximal parenting offers (through its apparent influence on students' perceptions).</p>
<p>And I want to point out that some schools have lots of cops running around handing out citations and making drug busts. Penn State is one of them. You don't want to mess with the cops OR the judges there. Even the football players don't get a break...</p>
<p>"The survey you reference also says that those kids had higher rates of substance abuse in high school. So, as a cohort study, it didn't normalize the groups at the beginning/"</p>
<p>It doesn't have to "normalize" the cohorts. If students who are prone to substance abuse are choosing fraternities and sororities, it is likely because because fraternities and sororities are places that are attractive to substance abusers. (Isn't that worse?)</p>