<p>Could someone please explain to me how students taking AP classes has become so mainstream in today's world? When I was in high school some 30 years ago, my school did not even offer AP classes. Exactly when did the mindset begin that you could not get into a decent college without taking a few AP's? I think it is insane that 15, 16, and 17 year old kids are being bogged down with hours and hours of homework for classes that were meant for 18 years and up. At my Ds high school it is not unusual for 1 AP class to have 2 hrs a night of homework. She says the kids who are taking 4 or 5 AP this year have absolutely no social life, they cannot play sports or anything else. Her high school is known for being notoriously rigorous. Meanwhile she has friends at other high schools whose AP classes are easier than D's honor classes. I know that APs are supposed to be taught the same everywhere, but clearly they are not. </p>
<p>Does anyone else feel like this? What are your thoughts on this?</p>
<p>AP classes seem to have taken the place of the CLEP test (from eons ago) as an avenue for college credits. The classes are given an extra weight of 1.0 to the GPA (make an A and it’s worth 5 rather than 4 points). Taking AP classes shows rigor and adds to your GPA for college apps.
Since colleges give college credit for them, it’s a bit like doing dual credit courses. Any college credit you can get transfers into dollars in your pocket.
No, they aren’t taught the same everywhere (GPA and homework load) but your score on the test (college credit) is the same so hopefully a harder taught AP class translates into a higher grade on the AP test (and therefore college credit). Teachers pride themselves on how well their students do on the AP exams.</p>
<p>I think that AP classes are very much like college classes. The rigor, and the content can vary significantly from school to school. And from class to class in the school. I believe that some teachers feel that the only way to match college rigor and teach the courses is to load the student down with busy work. Of course, some college profs think that too!!
I like the access to AP courses for my student. I do not think that it is appropriate for all students, and I do not think that the big push to have every student take AP courses is appropriate either.
But I do understand why students should try AP courses if they are planning on attending college. It is good preparation, and a good indicator of how successful you can be in college. It also opens some opportunities for students that they do not have in standard classes.</p>
<p>@vlines I agree with what your are saying and I understand the whole concept of AP classes. What I don’t understand is how colleges expect 15, 16 year olds to be doing college level classes. They will have 4-6 years in real college to be doing all that work, why can’t they just do normal, regular college prep classes while still in high school.</p>
<p>I don’t know if it is necessarily mainstream in the sense everyone takes them, rather many schools now offer some APs to a few students. Son’s high school with over 3000 students had maybe 5 students in AP BC Calc but 2 classes of 25 for AP US History per school year. Numbers would vary somewhat but not what I would call mainstream, as in mainstreaming IEP students into regular classes.</p>
<p>Within our district most hs offer the majority of AP coursework with varying amount of students taking specific courses. After a sequence of sciences Honors Bio, Honors Chem, Honors Physics and student can then take the respective APs. AP languages is after 4 years of foreign language, math after completing the high school sequence to get to AP Calc.</p>
<p>Daughter took all honors and no APs at the same high school and was able to get accepted to some great schools, and she was a 3 season varsity athlete as was her brother who did all the APs.</p>
<p>Son completed 17 APs while in high school and played 3 varsity sports and was captain of all 3. He managed to have a very active social life and participate in other ECs. He attended an undergrad that doesn’t accept very many APs, capped at 5 so the advantage he received from them initially was making him eligible for other courses he might not have taken.</p>
<p>Became more significant after he graduated his first undergrad, took a gap year before applying to med school and attended another university and received two more additional degrees in majors they did not offer at his first univertsity. THEN the APs really made a difference. Transferred in 72 units (AP) all applied to the secondary and third degrees. In addition to his units transferred in from first school he had 220 units initially. Was able to complete a BS in microbiology and a BS in biochemisty and a minor in genetics in 1 year. He was concurrently doing research at the same university so those APs really freed up his schedule to complete all of the above.</p>
<p>I know from observing all my kiddos who were all varsity athletes the first thing they really mastered was time management. Between practice, games, meets, and keeping a high GPA time management was key. Helped them immensely when they headed off to college and some continued their respective sports as D1 athletes.</p>
<p>Son in med school now says he has more free time than he has had in the past 9 years!!</p>
<p>@katwkittens How long ago did your daughter apply and get accepted to colleges? I would say if it was even 5 years ago that was probably possible. Today it is not. My D is applying to some fairly selective schools and I fear she will not get into any of them (she has no APs, mostly honors). She does have a couple of safeties, but I know she is going to be heartbroken.</p>
<p>I do think that many students feel pressure to take AP classes, yet they are not ready for the increased pace and rigor. If a student is overwhelmed and needs to spend several hours a night on homework just to keep up, then they are over their head and should dial back on the workload. Similar to Kat’s son, my S has taken many AP classes, plays sports and has lots of ECs. He spent very little time on the science/math APs, and a reasonable amount on the reading English, history and language APs, which are more reading intensive. His private prep school has very strict criteria for enrollment in AP classes because they don’t want push students into taking on too much.</p>
<p>There are many top-ranked colleges that don’t even take AP credits anyway, so I don’t think you should worry too much. AP credits can save people some money, or provide more curricular flexibility at colleges that accept them. That’s it.</p>
<p>Many nationally ranked magnet high schools don’t offer many APs either, because all courses are taught at the honors level anyway. The AP curriculum is not necessary to offer students a challenging experience.</p>
<p>AP courses can be a way for a student at a large generic public high school to distinguish himself from the herd, but I don’t think that the credits themselves matter. Most colleges really want the students to take their classes on campus; they have no incentive to want a bunch of incoming freshmen with advanced credits.</p>
<p>D was 1 year ahead of her brother, and as a recruited athlete she turned down some ivys to go to a school on full academic scholarship whose coach in her sport was one she could train with knowing she was also pre-med/pre-dental. The issue of her not having APs never came up.</p>
<p>Yes, although advanced students do need something to keep them interested in senior year if they have exhausted all of what would usually be high school level offerings.</p>
<p>However, there has been a proliferation of low value low rigor AP courses and tests, many of which are not well accepted by colleges for subject credit. So when you see someone taking 15 AP courses or tests, it is not like they are taking 15 which are comparable to English Literature and Calculus BC. Many of them (especially the ones that students take as high school freshman or sophomores, which they self-study for) are low value low rigor ones like Human Geography, Environmental Science, and Statistics. Some of them are potentially valuable as high school level courses; it is not a favorable commentary that high schools needed the incentive of an AP label to attach to them in order to offer them.</p>
<p>At least part of the credit (or blame, depending on your outlook) goes to Jay Mathews at the Washington Post and his ranking of high schools based on the number of AP and/or IB courses taken on average by each graduating senior over four years of high school. The WaPo ranking of high schools started in 1998. </p>
<p>It’s not necessary to take AP’s to get into a “decent” college, where the definition of “decent” is going to vary from student to student. The problem is if a student wants to apply to a highly selective college which expects that applicants have taken the most rigorous academic courses possible at their high school. If the student went to a school with no APs, no IB, but took the toughest courses offered, that’s different than going to a school that offers a couple of dozen AP courses, but the student only takes one or two.</p>
<p>@njsue All of the schools my D is applying to (Northeastern, Fordham, Providence among a few) all list rigor of courses taken as the number one factor they consider for admissions. Which means if you high school is offering 15 APs, they want you to take as many as possible to be considered competitive. D’s gc agrees with this and said there have been a handful of students accepted at these schools with no APs so it is worth a shot but said they would be reaches for her even though she has a gpa and sat scores within these schools ranges.</p>
<p>“Yes, although advanced students do need something to keep them interested in senior year if they have exhausted all of what would usually be high school level offerings.”</p>
<p>Maybe the school’s should think out of the box for these kids? Offer a class in The Great Books, all Shakespeare, Quarks, American Hegemony, etc., etc., etc, really delve in depth on subjects instead of classes which cram in tons of material that basically relies on regurgitation to get a good grade. </p>
<p>Or have them do rotating internships in business, law, medicine, science, gov’t…or mentor struggling students. </p>
<p>My son’s school offered nine AP classes, he took none and was accepted and is attending Bates. Believe me, they list rigor of classes as a factor in admission.</p>
<p>One more factor. Many colleges (especially big State U) have students who are not graduating in four years creating a log jam of incoming students. This is one reason all those admission statistics are getting scary in some parts.
AP credits show a college you are ready to do college work and are successful. You are coming in with credits (up to a year’s worth) and may graduate earlier (or at least within 4 years).
And you have to admit that at the very least AP credits allow your kid some breathing room in the direction they want to go. It allows exploration rather than restriction in what courses to take.</p>
<p>High schools, perhaps under budget pressure, are unlikely to offer many “out of the box” courses without incentives like an AP test (that would be more like expanding the “box”). Yes, it is a sad commentary that something useful like high school level statistics was not widely offered until the AP test in statistics came along.</p>
<p>Community college courses are probably a better option for a high school student who wants to sample true college level courses. But it often comes with the disadvantage of scheduling and commuting hassles.</p>
<p>^^^
Yes I agree AP’s are great for kids that can handle them and they are great for recieving college credit, thus letting them graduate earlier or take more electives. But I don’t believe they should penalize the kids who aren’t taking them. Some kids are simply not ready to take them in high school and they should not be made to feel like they shouldn’t be applying to selective schools because of that. This is how my D is being made to feel like.</p>
<p>Rigor doesn’t just refer to AP. A rigorous curriculum is 4 years of English, math (algebra through calc, not business math), lab science (bio/chem/physics and not things like earth science or astronomy), history, and the same foreign language. A student who has taken a solid college prep curriculum at the honors level is going to demonstrate college readiness.</p>
<p>If your daughter avoided APs solely because she did not want to work very hard, that may be an issue and it means that maybe she does not want to be at a selective, competitive school in the first place. But if she avoided APs because she was taking Honors classes instead, I don’t see that as an issue.</p>
<p>My daughter’s AP classes were far more rigorous than the 100-level courses taught at the community college where I teach and she was with a little higher ability group too.</p>
<p>@njsue My D actually did try to take a couple of AP’s this year but they were either full or did not fit into her schedule. It’s not as if she did not want to work hard, time is also a big factor for her. She is a competitive dancer and spends anywhere from 12-16 hrs a week at the studio. She has taken mostly honors classes (not all). It gives me a little hope though that some kids do get admitted without APs.</p>
The problem is if a student wants to apply to a highly selective college which expects that applicants have taken the most rigorous academic courses possible at their high school. If the student went to a school with no APs, no IB, but took the toughest courses offered, that’s different than going to a school that offers a couple of dozen AP courses, but the student only takes one or two.</p>