<p>Westie–I do feel kids have gotten pushed WAY too far, too fast before they are ready both education and emotional-wise. I have NO idea why people worry what their 3 year old is doing besides playing with cars or dolls. It needs to stop but I don’t know how to halt the train. Our society in some 80’s way has stepped up the bar way beyond what it should be.
I can’t help think that it’s a bit like when the kids are 12, 18 months and 2 years old and parents say MY KID IS TALKING, MY KID IS WALKING…but give them all 6 months and 20 years…</p>
<p>I so agree with you gouf78. I find it very interesting (and very sad) that one of the other threads in this forum is about an MIT student who was found dead (probably suicide is what it is pointing at). I fear that with so much pressure on these kids today that we will be hearing more of these types on incidents.</p>
<p>High schools and the College Board talk up AP courses as a way students can get ahead in college, graduate early, and save their parents tuition money. That is not the reason most students at our children’s high school take APs. Because AP courses are weighted higher than other courses (an A is a 4.0 in a regular course, 5.0 in an honors course, and 6.0 in an AP), students are taking them to boost their GPA and graduate higher in the class. Also, some colleges are telling them that, to be competitive for admission, they need to take the most rigorous classes, in ALL core subjects, that their high schools offer. For larger public high schools, that means a slew of APs. One of my daughter’s classmates knew she wanted to go to a certain university that would not give her placement credit for more than one AP course. Still, she took (as did my daughter) ten APs in high school – not for the credit but to get in that particular university.</p>
<p>It does concern me that so many high-achieving students are being worn down by the workload in high school. My daughter loved her AP classes, which were very rigorous and were taught by wonderful teachers, but she was routinely up until the wee hours of the morning doing her homework. I didn’t like it at the time. However, it prepared her for college work, and she is thriving at her university.</p>
<p>Interesting note: My daughter’s university has many students coming in with lots of AP credits. Rather than graduate early, however, most are staying four years and getting two majors or two majors and a minor.</p>
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<p>In other words, they are getting value out of the AP credits – by having to take fewer freshman level courses, they have more schedule space to take additional advanced courses, or additional courses in other subjects (second major or minor).</p>
<p>Absolutely. The students I know who took APs aren’t saving on tuition by graduating early, but they are getting more majors for their money.</p>
<p>It is so hard to tailor things “just right” (ala “Goldilocks”). One of ours galloped through the full IB program while doing sports, GF, debate, and a ton of other activities. One night I snarled at him because he was doing math problems while talking on the phone with GF and playing an on line video game. “Mom” he sighed, “it’s only Calculus.” For that kid, full tilt was a blast. </p>
<p>Two years later and very smart S2 struggled – not with concepts but with cranking work out in a timely manner. He spent two years feeling overwhelmed and guilty – but still took time for his passions. </p>
<p>What’s hard to see is the kid who has a real talent in one direction and is then expected to soar in all AP or IB classes offered. Parents, counselors, and students themselves push forward on all topics when, perhaps, sticking with a single blessing would be more sane. </p>
<p>I don’t think AP or IB is for everyone. But I can’t imagine what we would have done with S1 without a challenging path. He would have been miserable.</p>
<p>Rigor doesn’t necessarily mean AP. The use of the AP branded classes varies from school to school. We have several classes that get the rigorous checkbox that are not AP branded. I think if the kids want to take the “hard” classes then they should. I didn’t have AP when I went to high school but we had an experimental Great Books class and a couple others that some of us were invited to take as the school was experimenting with sorting out the kids academically. I also think it’s appropriate for schools to have pre-requisites for these classes. Finally balance is something every single first year college freshman has to learn. I see nothing wrong with having kids start to develop those self skills by understanding what their limits and tolerances are and excepting what they can master and do well in within reason. </p>
<p>We talk about “pressure” on kids but just exactly where is that pressure coming from and how is it dealt with on a family unit is a far more important question. Every kid is going to have a unique tolerance for the amount of self inflicted or parent inflected or coach inflicted or teacher inflicted pressure. </p>
<p>Every kid needs to learn how to set their personal limits. I’d far prefer my kids get a grip on those types of self skills while I’m there to monitor than send them off without some basic inner skills. My older two used their AP credits as mulligans in college for semesters when they bit off more than they could chew and needed to drop a class or when they burned out and needed a break. My #2 is “using one” next semester. He took 19 credit hours this semester and it’s killing him so he’s going to take 12 during the winter semester.</p>
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<p>She sounds like an accomplished, focused and interesting kid who is going to be fine in college admissions. Like many kids, she has specific dreams that may or may not pan out, but she’ll land on her feet because she has good things going for her.</p>
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exactly. Unfortunately, non-AP courses in my son’s school are for the uninterested and often behavior problem children. They are classes where the teachers are more babysitters then instructors. So until non-AP courses can universally provide rigor and engagement in an educational environment, AP courses are a welcome option. </p>
<p>That being said, balance is really important.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree that APs should be available to whomever wants to take them for whatever reason. I just hope that colleges don’t hold it against the ones that decide not to take them just simply for the fact that they aren’t ready, especially if the high school they attend offers many. My D happens to be one of these types. I have no worries that once she gets to college she will be able to handle it. I’m tired of all the comments I’ve been getting on various sites (this one included) saying she doesn’t have much of a chance getting in the schools she has applied to because she “chose” to not take APs.</p>
<p>vlines, that’s a shame some of the most rigorous classes at my kids’ high school like Anatomy & Physiology are the “favorite” classes because of the teacher…darn difficult but she does such a good job the kids “want” to take it. There are several like this class that teachers have developed that are harder than heck but the kids enjoy the teachers so much they offer the classes year after year. We have a physics teacher that knocks the socks off the kids but they love him. (no AP Physics). AP branded does not trump a good teacher in any way, shape or form. A good teacher challenges the kids and prepares them for college without the need for an AP outline or an AP exam. I’m very much on record as having a “take it” or “leave it” attitude about AP branded classes. If you are in a district where the teachers are inexperienced or can benefit from having a prescriptive tutorial then all is good. But if you have a district with great teachers AP can actually hold them back.</p>
<p>westie- why don’t you call some of the admission colleges and ask them about it? You can give them a fake name if it makes you feel better to do that. I don’t actually have an answer for you as far as how colleges look at this type of thing. The only thing I have figured out during the college application process is that nothing is the same from college to college, and figuring out what admissions are REALLY looking for is a rare super power.</p>
<p>AP classes aren’t as strenuous as they may seem. I’m in 4 (AP Lit, AP Micro, AP Enviro, and AP Gov) at the moment and often times I don’t have any homework at all. Although there are some sleepless nights, it’s typically because of procrastination on my part</p>
<p>Haven’t read the whole thread, but in response to the OP…</p>
<p>S took about 8 APs, was a 3-season athlete, had private music lessons and played in the regional youth symphony, and had time to socialize with friends. He took APs because he needed the challenge that the more advanced classes provided. He took all of the AP exams for his classes, and got 5s on all but two of them, and 4s on those. </p>
<p>Perhaps the problem is with kids who do NOT need that level of challenge feeling they must take the classes…</p>
<p>Yes or kids who should not…sometimes schools have a difficult time saying “no” and parents have a hard time hearing no.</p>
<p>@consolation I’m glad to hear your son did so well. He is the type of kid who AP’s were geared towards and it worked for him. My D does not take any but she does not have the need to either, nor does she feel guilty or bad for not taking them. It’s the colleges we are worried about, the fact that they will think she is a slacker for not taking the most rigorous courses at her school.</p>
<p>westie22 you could certainly ask the GC that is going to write her recommendation if they are going to say she took a rigorous curriculum or not. I don’t think that is an unreasonable question in the context of considering where your D might apply. Get a copy of your school profile that goes along with the GC statement.</p>
<p>westie, If your D was aiming at top 10 LACs or universities, the fact that she chose NOT to take her school’s most rigorous curriculum would indeed be a potential disqualifier.</p>
<p>There are, however, many worthwhile institutions where she can get a good education that are not looking for that kind of student.</p>
<p>@momofthreeboys - I don’t want to get too involved with the gc, trying not to be a hovering mom lol, plus I did have a brief conversation with her a few weeks ago about this. She didn’t have too much to say about it, that she should apply and see what happens.</p>
<p>@consolation - She is applying to Northeastern, Providence, Fordham and Stonehill to name a few (also some safeties), certainly not top 10 LACs. I guess at this point we can only hope for the best.</p>
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<p>It is likely that the majority of high school students attend schools where AP courses (and preparatory courses leading to AP courses) are at a higher standard than what would otherwise be offered in the absence of AP, and that only in elite high schools AP would be a downgrade in standards.</p>
<p>It is a pretty sad commentary on the state of US high school education that AP has morphed from a standardized way for advanced students in a few subjects to show competency in college freshman level material into a means of giving high schools incentive to offer more rigorous or useful courses (often really high school level rather than college level) that they would not otherwise offer, or would offer at an unsatisfying less rigorous level.</p>
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<p>If those are year-long courses, then they may not seem that hard because three of them are typically considered one semester (or less) courses in colleges.</p>