Ok. So we are trying to make a decision between the following scenarios for our son
UChicago - Full Pay
Top 10 Engineering State School - Full Pay
Lower tier Engineering Schools - Full Ride
Son wants to do Bachelors in STEM and most probably an MBA. Right now he is eyeing a career in either Finance, Consulting or Hi-Tech. Also looking at Entrepreneurship.
Here is a list of his and our concerns
Will his GPA get destroyed thereby ruining chances for top flight MBA school if he attends UChicago, given the caliber of students, academic rigor and a rigorous STEM department like Physics, Chemistry, Math etc. On a related note, will he have to be buried in books 80 hours a week to get a 3.5+ GPA at UChicago? That is what it takes to be a competitive Grad school applicant to the top MBA programs
Is it better to be a big fish in a small pond, get a great GPA at a lower tiered school, work for a “decent” but not “prestigious corporate brand name” and then try and get an MBA from a top business school
Given that he can earn as much coming out as an engineer from a top ranked state school does it make sense to spend so much money on an undergraduate degree at Chicago.
If he attends UChicago and our financial situation changes because of job loss or some such thing, will the school adjust our EFC? We can afford to pay full sticker price now, but not sure if we can for all four years.
How should we approach this decision? Thoughts/Suggestions?
@VeryLuckyParent I can see why you’re mulling over those choices. The initial reaction would be to accept UChicago because it’s probably got more name recognition at this point than the other options and more importantly has earned the name recognition for being a great school, for most people anyway. But with the focus on STEM, I see why you’re asking the better to be a big fish in a small pond question. I don’t have any suggestions, but what does you son think? Is he also conflicted about the options or is UChicago or one of the other colleges a clear choice for him? I’m guessing UChicago’s FA would pace your income in the event of unexpected changes, but I’m not an expert. From what you know of your son personally, what is your hunch of which college he would thrive best at (environment, academics?) these are the questions (as a parent also to a son on the UChicago waitlist) I guess I would be asking with the tough choices on the table. Congrats to your son (and to you and your family for the support behind him all these years) for his being admitted to so many good colleges to choose from (with aid!) Best of luck to all of you. Would love to know what you decide.
I have friends at UChicago who reapply for financial aid every year. They received a generous package their first year, but then came second, they were charged more. If money isn’t a problem, U of C is an all around amazing school that you should seriously consider! That being said, many people steer clear of acceptance from schools like UChicago (second most rigorous school in the country) or Princeton (no grade inflation) because they plan to go to graduate school. Although a 3.5 from U of C/Princeton will look good to grad schools, it’ll be hard to be competitive. UChicago is not just hard, it is really, really tough academically. Though people who attend don’t mind the challenge, the challenge should definitely be considered when thinking of your own personal work ethic or future post graduation plans. From experience, UChicago does hear financial aid appeals but your EFC doesn’t change (most people I know had theirs raised the second year).
I know a lot of pre med/pre MBA/pre engineering students go to middle (not low tier) school to have a decent GPA, good undergraduate experience, and a nice resume builder when it comes to applying for grad. However, a lot of them do this to save money since med school (for example) would be super expensive, and going to a prestigious undergraduate is not necessarily worth it. Ultimately, its not always the school you go to, but whatever school you put the most into (academically and extracurricularly) that will make an applicant competitive to grad schools.
Personally, I think going to U of C for a field like engineering may be less logical. U of C is very heavy on core studies rather than professional development; you will learn a lot, but you’re going to breathe your school work. Guaranteed. If you wanted to a field like law or business where the university/program has some prestige in employment circumstances, then UChicago is great if you’re willing to work. However, if you’re doing a field like medicine or engineering, where nearly all schools with a program are acceptable (especially since engineering is more skill based), I would say paying full sticker price (nearly 60k) is insane.
It doesn’t make much sense to spend so much money on a school in your case. UChicago has the location/ranking perk, but I would suggest you look at worth/value before making your decision. Either way, you can’t really go wrong with a school like that. Congrats on the acceptance, by the way!
@CoramDeo7 I think he is still in shock that he made it in I am letting him savor the moment for now, so we have not had a serious conversation about the practical aspects yet, but my brain is thinking ahead!
One thing to note is that at U of C the STEM fields you’re talking about all have different tracks, so he doesn’t have to be competing with departmental majors in physics, chem, and math. He’ll probably be competing with pre-meds, biologists, and social scientists who, like him, have an interest in, and see the professional relevance of, these adjacent fields.
From what I’ e read, it sounds like the professional opportunities for finance people right out of college are exceptionally good for U of C students (especially those with strong math skills). Maybe I’m wrong, but my impression is that MBA programs are very different from MD and JD programs in that they aren’t GPA-obsessed and they strongly value/typically require a few years of work experience after college. So job opportunities post-BA are worth looking at (and you may also want to check out whether Booth has a BA/MBA track – I thought I’d heard references to something like that but I could be mistaken).
The “is it worth the money?” question is one only you (pl) can answer – so many variables in the mix. But one consideration I would flag is that once smart kids get into life-of-the-mind environments, all bets may be off in terms of career goals. I went into Harvard unclear on whether I wanted an MBA or a JD or both – I came out enrolled in a PhD program. So much for ROI, LOL! Odds are, if your son goes to a top 10 engineering school in a public university, ends up an engineer (and a very good engineer at that). But it may be much harder to predict what he’ll end up doing if he goes to U of C, especially given the apparent range of his interests.
Bottom line – I’ve got plenty of counsel but no recommendation to offer re what choice should be made. Good luck and congrats – he has lots of appealing option to choose from among!
Dang, you mean, he could call me up one day and tell me he wants to major in something that could land him a barrista’s job if he goes to UChicago?
Seriously though, yeah, that is one of the thrills and unpredictabilities of attending a “liberal arts leaning school” You never know what you will find when you “open the box of chocolates”
Sulkyle: as a parent I would take issue with your financial aid assertion. Our financial aid actually went up the second year. I went down the third year when I no longer had another student in college and our income was about the same, which made perfect sense to me. But it did not drop off a cliff or anything. My experience with UChicago aid is that it is very generous.
It’s an admission decision made during the fourth year of undergrad, with matriculation deferred so the student can gain work experience. Student doesn’t commit to Booth but has a limited time to claim the spot (2-3 years). Comes with some scholarship $$.
“On a related note, will he have to be buried in books 80 hours a week to get a 3.5+ GPA at UChicago?”
Probably not for most of the students at the College.
I have heard that above 60% of student body got general honors (above 3.25) upon graduation a few years back. IMO Chicago does not have grade deflation but its students work hard (harder than many peers) to get a good (comparable) GPA. 60 hours per week should give you a 3.5 unless a student takes very challenge courses, etc.
I could be wrong about financial, but from the three people I know who attend that has been their case. However, its obviously not the same for each individual.
And no, I’m an upcoming freshman at UPenn!
In the case of MBA programs, a lot more is involved than your GPA. Your work experience and recommendations are very important. In the case of GPAs, the Adcoms are very aware of the grading policies of the various universities. Chicago students go everywhere and students with 3.25 GPAs wind up at Booth, HBS and elsewhere.
I’d think carefully about the cost. Full ride vs full cost is a huge difference. I am a bit surprised that Chicago didn’t offer you FA.
I am not sure as parent why you are concerned about his college GPA. It’s time to let go and let your son decide. No 18 year old can predict his or her course of study or grades over the next four years.
There’s really an important threshold question here: Does he want to be an engineer? Does he want his launching pad into the business world to be engineering expertise?
There’s no right answer to those questions, but once you have answered those questions there may be a right and wrong answer as far as going to the University of Chicago is concerned. If you want to be trained as an engineer, if you want that to be part of your identity, go to an ABET-accredited engineering program. Which Chicago very much isn’t. Chicago will provide a superb liberal arts education, including very strong programs in math and physical sciences if you want that, with some engineering elements, including one new sort-of engineering major. But University of Chicago graduates are not engineers and are unlikely to be hired for mainstream engineering jobs.
There are lots of jobs in the world that are not mainstream engineering jobs, of course. Becoming an engineer is not a golden ticket to happiness or long-term financial success, although it certainly cuts down on the risk of having to survive on part-time barista work after graduation. Science- and math-focused Chicago graduates are not likely to be working as baristas, however. MBA programs take lots of engineers, but they take lots of non-engineers, too; getting an engineering degree is not even remotely a requirement for MBA programs.
So you can succeed as en engineer or as a non-engineer, but it’s really difficult to succeed as an engineer if you start at Chicago.
By the same token, if you don’t want engineering training and experience to be part of the core of what you offer – if you don’t want to spend the next 6-7 years living and breathing engineering before shifting into an MBA program – then you shouldn’t really be considering going to an engineering program, prestigious or not. That’s not a smart plan at all. If these are your only three choices, and you don’t want to be an engineer, Chicago is almost certainly the best choice.
Ok. This answer is probably going to make some people roll their eyes, but * Wanting to be an engineer* is not necessarily connected to * studying engineering*.
Engineering is an analytical degree which lets you cultivate very useful analytical, problem-solving and creative skills. You can graduate with an engineering degree and go into all kinds of “non engineering professions” because other employers value those skills that you have perfected as an engineer.
You may even start off your first job as an engineer because the salary is not too bad and then move on to other things.
Engineering is one of the fields that my son feels he will be suited towards based on his temperament and analytical attitude, strength in math etc. So is computer science, Math, Stats and a number of other areas.
He will most probably use his engineering degree as a starting point to jump into business.
We are obviously not comparing Chicago to his other choices form an engineering perspective. We are comparing one analytical degree at a state school to another analytical degree from Chicago. Ultimately he is interested in getting an MBA and focusing on the world of business. The question is what is the most cost effective way to get into a highly ranked MBA school (and for an MBA degree ranking/prestige/reputation/recruiting strength matters, unlike Engineering where an ABET school is going to give you almost the same career trajectory)
The problem is data on this is hard to come by. If the top 7 Business schools let us see where their first year MBA’s got their undergraduate degrees from, it would be great, but they don’t So we have to speculate
My son went through a similar analysis. He never wanted to be an engineer but thought it would be a good starting point. After listening to me (had 3 engineering roommates in college) and talking to several engineer friends he decided to go in a different direction. The thing with engineering is that it is very hard, very intense, and very specific. Most of the people studying in the various engineering fields are very much interested in the specific area they are studying. Sure many of them wind up doing something else, but it’s just really hard to imagine grinding out 4 years studying something that specific knowing you are planning to do something unrelated upon graduation.
I am letting him savor the moment for now, so we have not had a serious conversation about the practical aspects yet, but my brain is thinking ahead!
So we have to speculate