<p>Agree with all the comments about weed-outs. It is brutal. The good news is that, when a college has a rep for serious weeding, the grad and prof schools usually know it and respect it. A C is not the end of his path.</p>
<p>I work for an Ivy and occasionally with med students. As my daughter was facing the same freshman problem with tests being terribly different than the material covered, I asked some of the brighter med kids how they’d fared in their early pre-med classes. They laughed and groaned. My friend’s daughter, a genius-sort friend who recently grad’d from an Ivy med school, flunked organic on her first go-round. </p>
<p>Weed-outs do just that; they eliminate the kids who won’t stick with it. Encourage him to understand that it’s the process that’s at fault, not him.</p>
<p>I would be agreeing with all the “bite the bullet” advice except for one thing:</p>
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<p>*** If *** this is in fact true, I would recommend getting out the class if possible. A professor who does this is not treating students fairly. Tough is one thing, impossible is another. He should take the class under someone who is honest about what the tests are going to be over.</p>
<p>^This is part of what happens in a school that weeds in pre-med-type classes. There are random nutcase profs- but a kid has to be very, very careful it’s not just going to be the same in another section. If there is another section. There wasn’t for my daughter.
Weed-outs are not about “fair.” They’re more about (sorry) endurance and willingness to stick with it. He could possibly drop inorganic and start freshman chem (if he’s still within the drop/add period and there’s space) BUT he has to be sure that’s a more manageable class.</p>
<p>^^I went through this kind of weed out class in my UG years almost 40 years ago. In my days it was Taxation, in a 2nd year accounting program, even though the subject is different, the concept is the same. After the first quiz, 1/3 of the the class packed their belongings and moved out. The quiz had no relationship to the text he went over in the class and without passing Tax 101, you are not going to get an accounting degree. 1/3 of the class got like less than 30 out of 100 and the balance got no more than 70 and the professor announced in his first class there will be no curves. And there is no where to go, as the same prof taught both Tax 101, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. It was very discuraging to an accounting major. For those who stayed, the professor offered one hour before and one hour after the class as office hours in the same classroom we had the class. Boy, those hours really helped us to understand where the professor’s quizes came from and got used to his testing methods. I ended up with an A in his class and took on Taxation as my graduduate study major.</p>
<p>It turned out that the school knew this situation and purposly arranged the class as a weed out class. In addition, the school also had scheduled that class room for that class with prearranged hours.</p>
<p>If your son is still stressed by the time registration for next semester starts, I’d suggest that he start looking at rate my professor dot com to find out something about possible professors. I don’t mind (and often rather like) tough professors, but I don’t have a high tolerance for professors who can’t (or won’t) articulate the general kinds of problems you’re responsible for on tests. </p>
<p>I’m not appreciative of professors who believe that it is their job to flunk as many kids as possible. Set the standards you like, but communicate the standards and benchmarks and give students the right kind of prep work (problem sets, homework) so that tests are not some huge surprise. At that point, if a student – or many of them – don’t do well, then give them grades that reflect that. But I can’t see any reason to blindside kids or give them tests with far more problems than can reasonably be answered in the time available. In classes where a lot of students come in with inadequate backgrounds, give a pre-test to help students decide if they have the prerequisite skills so they can decide on dropping or not in the first couple of days.</p>
<p>Even at research universities, teaching is supposed to be part of the mission, and I expect teachers to teach, not trick. </p>
<p>Our local flagship has had a Nobel winning physicist who intentionally teaches freshman physics, and spent a lot of time working on what conceptual mistakes intro physics students made, and modified his instruction to try and help them learn to see the problem differently. He didn’t sit there and chortle at how many students blew it.</p>
<p>It’s true, getting a C isn’t that bad, but very discouraging for a freshman who’s doing everything available plus more and is very bright and motivated. It also makes him nervous about keeping his scholarships, knowing he’s giving it so much and only getting C’s on quizzes.</p>
<p>He can’t drop any classes–each is 5 credits, plus 2, one credit learning communities (unfortunately taught by the same profs as the core classes). 15 credits is minimum for his scholarships. All three classes: Bio, Chem & CS are required to progress with major or certificate.</p>
<p>Can’t change sections–the whole schedule would fall apart. He had to take the sections that were left. He came in with 51 credits from AP classes–basically a sophomore–and upper level students had earlier signed up for all the best times/profs. It took a very veteran adviser to put this one together. </p>
<p>Also, the college is switching from quarters to semesters Fall of '12, so they’re advising students to complete all 3 sections of year-long courses (so dropping would put him off track). Not sure if he can switch profs next quarter–we’ll see. And yes, his schedule is tough. Wish he could have taken a ‘fun’ class (I loved Cultural Anthropology:).</p>
<p>In the meantime, I found a grad student contact in the tutoring lab, who has a chem major. I advised S to at least contact him for ideas. DH also recommended he talk to prof, even if it doesn’t help. Maybe when he talks to him the prof will realize S is a serious student and not looking for a handout.</p>
<p>Fingers crossed, but we’re taking the good advice to not file a complaint with the department head (DH said he probably already knows of the complaint, but that there’s a lot of politics within these departments). We’ll let S know we’re here with a good ear and a few ideas, but it’s up to him to soldier on. Man, this is tough!</p>
<p>AMI1988, what textbook is your son using for inorganic chemistry? I’m trying to figure out the level of the class in question. At the university where I am on the faculty, students don’t take a course formally titled “inorganic chemistry” until after they have had thermodynamics and quantum mechanics.</p>
<p>I will add, as a professor myself, and friend to many other professors, that Rate my Professor is not an effective means to assess the quality of teaching. Faculty who I know are superb teachers get pilloried on that because they are rigorous, or because of all kinds of reasons not related to the quality of the teaching. Students use it as a non-censorable way to complain, and that is fine. However students and parents should not confuse it with a valid assessment of teaching. Popularity, sure, but not teaching.</p>
<p>glido,
^^The op did state that dropping the class is not an option in a later posting.</p>
<p>OP, Have your son had a discussion with the professor? and as noted by another poster, did your son go to the office hours? I believe he will do better if he did both.</p>
<p>My DD got a horrible grading in her first month of biology class in HS. I think she got a D, which is unheard of to a straight A student. We promptly scheduled a meeting with the teacher after school in the presence of our DD. The teacher gave us the run down of her reasoning of giving that grade and pointed out a way for my DD to improve. My DD worked at that and ended up an A for the class and now She is a bio majo in a prestigeous college.</p>
<p>Op, there is a way if your son has the will. Good luck.</p>
<p>Your son sounds determined. This is the beginning of the term and he will become accustomed to the prof, his teaching style, and methods in the weeks to come. A “C” at this point is not so bad. I think he will do fine.</p>
<p>arabarb, I agree, a prof. should not trick some student to fail. But the student also should understand the teaching methods the professor is using in the class. Perhaps the probem set he went over in the class is not going to be the same in the quiz. In my case, the quiz was an open book quiz, all the answers are in the book, you have to fully comprehand the text to answer those questions in the quiz, not just go over the home work will do.</p>
<p>And remember, in college, there is no obligation of a professor to go over every detail in the text, it is there for the student to study and comprehand. Most of the freshmen did not understand this and fail in those weed out classes.</p>
<p>Many times, it’s about applying the basics (and more) to a higher order of questions- showing your ability to apply the concepts you learned. Somewhere in calnewport.com (Study Hacks) he talks about this. My D, btw, did get creamed. And, after years of focusing on math-sci, discovered some new interests that she really became passionate about, that stretched her and got her intellectual juices flowing. This year, she’s more excited about learning than I have ever seen in her. College is starting to make sense.</p>
<p>@lookingforward, I agree. In ancient times, when I was a grad student grading tests and lab reports, I noticed there was a group of students who obviously had done the reading, but clearly didn’t understand the concepts. The hallmark was that they tended to write down everything that could possibly be relevant to the question asked, often in an undigested, almost incoherent, mess. The other TAs and I would refer to it as “spew”. Almost none of those students ever came by to ask WHY their grades tended to be bad; if they did I told them that we weren’t testing their ability to memorize stuff, we needed to know they understood it.</p>
<p>Are you referring to Carl Wieman? Who is now working for the Obama administration? Yes indeed he made it his recent mission to figure out exactly why so many students are struggling with physics. If you talk to him or have attended his workshops, you’ll learn it is exactly <em>because</em> professors can not get kids over this hurdle that he’s trying to figure out why. Currently we have a vast amazing science, but they have not applied the same scientific rigor to figure out exactly why physics is such a challenge to teach to so many students (at the level by which they need to comprehend it) and how physics can be taught more effectively. But there is not the body of knowledge from which professors can draw. He may create it. Be assured, the problem is not simply lazy or ‘trickster’ and chortling professors. Carl is to be applauded for his efforts but this isn’t a matter of some professors trying to help his students, but rather his invested mission (with a ton of money and grants to boot) to overcome it for the whole sake of his field which is struggling with the same challenge.</p>
<p>^I think the biggest problem is that students, in general, do not ask whether what they are learning in class makes intuitive sense. Many don’t even know that they even need to do that. They think if they are provided an equation or a problem-solving method in class, then they just need to memorize the equation. </p>
<p>Another problem is that they don’t have enough affinity for the material to sit with it long enough for it to sink in.</p>
<p>Yes, I was referring to Carl Wieman, whom I have heard speak on the topic several times. The key for me was that he didn’t simply shrug and say, “Well, physics is hard, what can you expect?” or, “We need a good weeder class.”
He’s invested a lot personally and professionally in trying to improve physics instruction. </p>
<p>In classes that use problem sets (math, most sciences, econ, engineering) I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect that the professor will give homework assignments that model the kinds of problems that students will be expected to attempt on the tests. Not exactly, by any means, but generally a student who is able to independently work through each of the problem sets successfully should not be surprised by what is on the exam. Students need to take responsibility to honestly and thoroughly work the problem sets, and go back and understand what they got wrong on them and try some substitute problems until they get comfortable with the theory/technique/application. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, you still find professors who either throw curve balls far outside the domain of the problem sets, or those who stack problems such that getting the wrong answer on one question means losing credit on some significant part of the test. I’m not a fan.</p>
<p>And while rate-my-professor has numerous failings, in the absence of other information, it can be a reasonable source for getting some feedback on a professor’s general approach. There was a UCLA engineering prof a year or two ago that came up on CC – he taught a course required for seniors before graduation, and he seemed to be thrilled that a very, very high percentage of students flunked his class and thus couldn’t graduate. Even the Dean ended up getting involved, in my recollection. Isn’t that the kind of professor you’d like to know about in advance, and possibly plan to avoid?</p>
<p>My NMS, 4.0, top of the class, near-perfect test score, full-tuition scholarship child jumped with joy when she finished her first chemistry class (which by the way she had changed to a pass/no credit status) with a C her first semester of college. She still made the Dean’s List.</p>
<p>Fine but the goal here wasn’t to personally help his students…and frankly they aren’t doing much better (there are still the subset in his class that can’t figure it out). Rather this is his NEW research agenda. Surely he has been struggling to bring his students on board like everyone else in his field for the past 20 years- despite no attempt on his part to ‘trick’ his students- and yet he has been as flummoxed as everyone else. That is why he’s pursuing this. Now in a very senior position, with prize in hand, he chose to try to solve the bigger problem. Not because he’s just trying to be a good teacher per se (he and many always have been), but because he knows everyone who teaches physics can’t figure it out! Applause for that, someone has to. But absurd to suggest that now every physics professor should also be engaging in solving that particular puzzle with trial and error is silly. It’s a problem with the nature of the field, not some individual professor who ‘just isn’t trying’. </p>
<p>As for problem sets vs. exams. There isn’t some trickery going on here. Most students find patterns, check answers, try again, compare notes, see a pattern, plug and chug, with as much time as they need. Now give them new - but entirely comparable questions- on the exam and some can not do them because they did not actually understand enough to generalize. There isn’t a conspiracy theory here, there is a lack of transferability of knowledge because of a lack of deeper understanding, (such that they can’t apply to new problems). Not more difficult problems, just different problems. Now professors need to figure out how to address this problem but its not due to a lack of interest or motivation, but something that Carl is trying to get at. </p>
<p>Of course there are wacko and bad professors. No question in my mind. I can think of plenty of my own examples from being a student and seeing ones I’ve met. I am a gigantic fan of teaching evaluations for that very reason. But anecdotal evidence about some bad professors tells you almost nothing about the bigger problem.</p>