need advice: accelerate math for freshman S or not

<p>I am looking for advice/opinions.
S2 is a freshman in high school, really math oriented and will be doing Algebra 2 this year. Today he broached the subject of accelerating further, he wants to simultaneously study PreCalc at home with the help of a tutor so he could take AP Calc AB during sophomore year. I dont really mind which way he does it because I know he really loves math, but here's the kicker: the tutor fee might go upto about $900 thru the year. S2 thinks it is a good bargain for getting a year closer to AP Calc and he had already mapped out the entire high school year what he wants to do. I am not so sure about this because I have to pay for it. The tutor is our neighbor and has a good reputation tutoring. I think I will pay for it if it is really worthwhile.. please post your thoughts and thanks for reading the long post.</p>

<p>At our middle and HS, several kids have done this. Not sure why your ds needs a tutor; he can’t take two math classes at school?</p>

<p>I’m no expert in this, but I think the best way to weigh the pros/cons of paying is to consider how much he’ll save in college courses. I’m assuming his plan is this:</p>

<p>Freshman: Pre-Calc/Algebra 2
Sophomore: Calc AB
Junior: Calc BC
Senior: Vector Calc or stats or whatever is available at his school</p>

<p>The AP tests from AB and BC would cut down the cost of two math courses. Would he get any credit for the last year’s worth of classes? Is he even planning on majoring in something that would require this level of math? How does this compare to the per-unit tuition of potential colleges?</p>

<p>It’s definitely great that your son wants to study more math, and he should definitely do that–the question is how. If $900 is too much for you to pay, he could perhaps try to find an online course that would be less expensive (supplemented with some tutoring, but less of it and therefore lower-cost), or find another like-minded student to share the cost of the tutoring.</p>

<p>What math classes are offered at your HS? If your S takes AB AP Calc during his sophomore year are there additional (more advanced) classes for him to take when he is a junior/senior?
Colleges generally like students to take a math class all 4 years in HS, so you don’t want him running out of options for those last few years.</p>

<p>IME, math kids can find math classes to take even if the school doesn’t offer anything advanced enough. In our school a lot of math kids take pre-calc as a summer school class. My son wished he had as they dragged a semester’s worth of material over most of the year. (My younger son’s math teacher solved that problem by covering all of Calc AB in the time remaining after he covered the precalc curriculum.) BTW in many schools one doesn’t need to take Calc AB before Calc BC. Calc BC covers one year of standard college calculus.</p>

<p>$900 seems like a lot. I’d be surprised if he needed the tutor that much.</p>

<p>thanks guys for all the replies, really appreciate the input.
here is his map:</p>

<p>Freshman: Pre-Calc/Algebra 2
Sophomore: AP Calc AB
Junior: AP Calc BC
Senior: AP Stat</p>

<p>the reason he cannot take PreCalc in school is because of logistics his school is housed at middle school and they only offer PreCalc at the high school. We went over the possibility of him travelling to high school (20 min away) to middle school but he does not want to do that and also it is too late now. For some weird reason, PreCalc does not factor into gpa, they pick another Honors or AP class (could be Chem H or AP Comp Sci) which makes it into the gpa. Once PreCalc is done, then Math creeps back into gpa! (So Alg 2 would count as a major but PreCalc would not, and that, he says is the reason he wants to get it ‘out of the way’. It is a required pre-req for AP Calc AB, he will have to test out of it).
I think I will talk him into not spending the money. If he wants, he can study on his own, online, he could probably google some free classes.</p>

<p>IMHO taking Calc BC senior year is a better option than accelerating and taking Stat. If he decides to do something in math, engineering, or science, he will have had Calc senior year and not a year break. Unless your school has SUPER math teachers (which is not the case in our local schools), you take a risk accelerating.</p>

<p>Have you looked into having him take Precalculus through a virtual school? That would probably be a lot less expensive than a $900 tutor. Also, do Calculus AB and BC have to be taken separately at his school? At my D’s school, one takes either AB or BC, not both. The kids on the more advanced track take BC. Another alternative might be taking Statistics at community college during the summer instead of AP Stats. That would be cheaper than a $900 tutor also. Those two options would allow him to take Precalculus sophomore year while still taking all of his desired classes.</p>

<p>OP, has S2 already taken geometry?</p>

<p>^yes, done with geometry last year.
MD Mom, thanks for pointing out the one-year break in Calc should he accelerate, great point which never crossed our minds, probably this is why I spend hours on CC!</p>

<p>beth’s mom, yes AP Calc AB and AP Calc BC are offered separately. Usually the kids take them in 11th and 12th grades, if they finish Precalc, Alg 2 and geometry.</p>

<p>he also has the option of simultaneously taking PreCalc and AP Stat sophomore year which I think is a better option after reading all the posts! talk about enlightenment on CC!</p>

<p>To me it seems like taking precalc sophomore year is soon enough. I don’t see much advantage hustling to get BC calc done junior year. </p>

<p>My son did double up on Algebra2 and precalc his sophomore year so that he’d be able to take the 2year IB HL Math sequence. So it can be done. But we learned at teacher conference that the precalc teacher was surprised the GC allowed it. Math is his thing and he did fine in both classes.</p>

<p>Please read this article:
[The</a> Calculus Trap](<a href=“http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/articles.php?page=calculustrap]The”>Don’t Fall into the Calculus Trap)</p>

<p>If he’s not being challenged now, he probably won’t be challenged by Calculus either. I made that mistake in high school believing that I was challenging myself by taking Calculus. However, there was a whole area of math that I was blind to. Have him take a look at competition math if he is really that gifted. Get him to use the math that he already knows in more interesting ways. Also many mathematics students find computer science interesting. If he is motivated, it’s quite easy to pick up a computer language on his own. TopCoder has a high school section, which can be challenging and has some problems that require creativity. </p>

<p>He’ll distinguish himself a lot more in the eyes of top colleges if he can succeed in such endeavors. Plenty of kids take college-level math classes. From my experience as a math major at a top 10 school (according to US News), they are no more prepared for math than the next student. It’s more important that he learn the fundamentals well and learn to think creatively than it is to simply take high-level classes, which tend to cover material at a fairly shallow level.</p>

<p>I think doubling Stats with another math class is a better option; if Calc BC is the highest level of math your school offers that should be his senior year class. That way he will be in better shape continuing on in a math related major at college because his strongest math skills will be fresh. </p>

<p>The only way I would accelerate the program is if he can attend college (not online) senior year and move beyond Calc BC - then it’s worth talking about. If that were an option I would pay the tutor - you don’t need gaps in knowledge at this early stage and online courses aren’t always what they should be.</p>

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<p>This amazes me. DS, who is bright and has aptitude for math but is no genius at math (at least as far as I know), took AB his senior year (only class offered). We found out AB covered chapters 1-7 in his book, BC covers chapters 8-10. He self studied ch. 8-10. I swear he spent not much more than 20 hours total, and got a 5 on the BC exam. What do they do for that whole 2nd year? I can’t believe they spend the whole year on 3 chapters worth of material! Do they cover other material?</p>

<p>Depending on what else he wants to take and how scheduling works out he may be able to take AP stats at the same time as AP calc. That’s what my D did junior year. He may be in danger of running out of math courses offered at his HS if he accelerates it too much and then he might either have no math class for senior year or maybe he could take a higher level one at a local college.</p>

<p>At our school, you take either Calc BC or AB and not both. Calc BC covers all material in AB and more at a faster pace. Most advanced math students take BC. I never understand how you can spread material for single variable calculus over two years. College usually has a course that covers single variable calculus in just one semester. It seems like your son is going to hustle and get Algebra 2 and pre-calc done in one year and then going to bored to tears with 2 years of Calculus.</p>

<p>If your son is really good and love math, AP Stat is not going to satisfy him senior year, he would want to go on to multivariable calc.</p>

<p>^^AP stats did not strike me as a particularly difficult or time consuming course from what I saw DS do last year.</p>

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<p>Differential and Integral calculus, including all the various methods of integration in one semester? That’s not typical in my experience. I’m sure it exists at some places, but not most. At UCSD it was a quarter of differential, a quarter of integral, a quarter of MV, a quarter of ODE and a quarter of Linear Algebra.</p>

<p>I do agree that a good math student shouldn’t need both AB and BC. But I don’t really get the math sequences these days and what they include. When I was in HS Algebra 2 was a pretty fundamental class. You learned all about logs and exponents and functions. THen we had a semester of trig. Pre calc was also a semester, and basically a review and intro to liimits, continuity, etc. I’m not sure because I skipped it and never missed it. I get the impression it is much more important these days.</p>

<p>“Differential and Integral calculus, including all the varous methods of integration in one semester? That’s not typical in my experience. I’m sure it exists at some places, but not most.”</p>

<p>I think you are right and I’m mistaken. Single variable calculus are usually done in two semester in college.</p>