Need advice concerning low GPA

Parents Forum
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With all due respect, I think that you should personally enroll as a student in whatever college you think that you might do well in, and let your college sophomore son make his own decisions as to what he wants to do.</p>

<p>You did not name your son's college, but it is very possible that a weak GPA at an elite college known for its rigor and tough grading policies may be far better for employment prospects than a top GPA at an easier college known for grade inflation. Or -- perhaps getting the first job will be tougher, but the more demanding preparation at your son's school will lead him to be a much better engineer -- after the first job, it is his on-the-job performance that will count the most. Or maybe the experience of simply having to work so hard and retake a failed course will simply lead to your son being a better, stronger, smarter person. </p>

<p>It seems to me that you are delivering the wrong message to your son. You are telling him, "when the going gets tough, give up" and that you do not think he has the ability to compete with his peers at his college. </p>

<p>I think it is fine to tell your son that it is o.k. with you if he transfers and that you will support him with whatever decision he makes. If he is in danger of losing financial aid because of poor grades, then I think it is appropriate to discuss with him what that will mean in terms of college affordability.</p>

<p>But I think you need to let him make the decision as to whether or not to transfer on his own. </p>

<p>As far as your first question -- what you can do to "convince" colleges to look at his high school performance rather than college grades... I think any contact from you would be the death of his chances at any school. It is not the parent's job to convince the admissions department of anything, but for you to attempt to interject yourself into the process that way would send a very strong message that your son is not capable of much at all. After all, one big difference between high school and college is that in high school parents are there to supervise and are for more likely to also give their kids academic help along the way. No college is going to have much faith in a 19 or 20 year old who needs his parents to be his advocate with the admissions department.</p>

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<p>Well said, calmom.</p>

<p>Something within the parental realm of concern: Is he eligible for a single room next semester? You could ask him if HE thinks that might help or hinder him academically for concentrating on his studies. Perhaps there are available single rooms but a price difference, so you might consider if he's hesitant to ask for this additional cost. Sometimes rooms open up in Spring semester, due to attrition or students taking Junior term abroad in Spring. If he's getting along fine with roommates and they aren't a distraction, then don't bother with a room change, obviously.</p>

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<p>If the school is as you describe, and the issue is post-graduation job placement, then a low GPA might not be as disastrous as you think. I'd ask the career services office at his current school what his job prospects would be if his grades don't improve.</p>

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<p>A low gpa at a good engineering school will not hurt job prospects for an engineer. Period. A low gpa from a good school beats a high gpa from a not so great school when it comes to engineering. </p>

<p>We are not talking about i-banking. This is a different ballgame. GPA is not as big a deal with the engineering field. Perhaps he might not get the consulting gig the top kids are in line for --- in my humble opinion, that would be a good thing (how the heck does one consult with no actual experience in the field?!). In the end, it won't matter. Innate intelligence (can't even get a low gpa in an engineering program without it & that's a fact!!!), hard work, and the oft-forgotten-but-oh-so-important-to-engineers mechanical aptitude will allow him to do just fine in his career. </p>

<p>If the goal is to make a ton of money, an engineer needs an MBA, anyway --- save the worry for Harvard B-school :).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
A low gpa at a good engineering school will not hurt job prospects for an engineer. Period. A low gpa from a good school beats a high gpa from a not so great school when it comes to engineering.

[/quote]
kelsmom, could you give more details, evidence and/or parameters to these statements? I ask because I know that many students and parents, where the student is at a tough and tough-grading Engineering school, worry about this. I have seen threads started in the Engineering forum and within certain schools' threads.</p>

<p>What is the "cutoff point" for a low GPA not hurting? Is it 2.8 or 2.5 or 2.0? What is the determination of a "good" Engineering school? Are we talking USN&WR rankings? If so, top 10? top 20? top 50? I know that many of us rail against over-reliance on USN&WR, but if that is how employers might be evaluating, then it is valid in that context.</p>

<p>I have seen parent posters who are involved with recruiting indicate that resumes are computer-scanned and those without GPA's are diverted from serious consideration. Those with under 3.0 likewise; those with under 3.5 moved to later consideration. Further, that salaries are a function of GPA. Now, I don't remember if they were specifically referring to Engineering in these discussions, but I believe they were. I recall that one was a Fortune 500 company. Maybe this is not so cut-and-dried at all of them; maybe not in the more hi-tech, start-up type of firms. I don't know. Which is why I am asking if you would flesh out your comments.</p>

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<p>Andale, good questions. I have to admit that I am only offering my opinion, as always :). I graduated from an engineering school that most here have never heard of ... yet it has produced some very powerful "captains of industry" over the years. Some of the grads who have gone on to have extraordinary careers had very low gpa's. </p>

<p>You may say that what was true 30 years ago is no longer true today. However, I know a young man who is struggling to maintain C's (and has had D's) at UMich engineering. He got an internship after his sophomore year & did such an outstanding job that they are paying for the remainder of his undergrad schooling & have offered him a job at graduation. Engineering is a hands-on field, and on-the-job performance is key. I firmly believe that work experience (internships, co-op, summer employment) is THE way to a good job in the engineering field.</p>

<p>I worked at an engineering school (my alma mater, actually), setting up cooperative employment agreements. The employers with whom I worked were far less concerned about grades than they were about work performance.</p>

<p>What makes an engineering school "good?" I am biased. I prefer programs that are engineering programs from the start (as opposed to schools that accept students into an engineering program after sophomore year). I think that engineers need lots of hands-on labs, as many relevant math/science/engineering courses as possible --- taken with other engineers. Personally, I want my cars designed by folks who realize that materials matter, vibrations affect systems, etc. --- I want my bridges designed by folks who understand the effects of loads, stresses, weather, etc. Reading about concepts is good, but putting ideas to use in a lab makes the concepts "real." So, the answer is: a good engineering program is one that incorporates LOTS of tough engineering concept coursework with LOTS of hands-on lab work --- and provides plenty of opportunity for its students to do real work (and research can certainly substitute for job experience).</p>

<p>But the key question is: what does the engineer want to do? Engineering itself is generally not the conduit to huge earnings. Engineering MANAGEMENT is. Therefore, I made the statement about Harvard B-school. I know plenty of engineers who make righteous bucks --- and almost every one of them has an advanced degree, with most having an MBA. Is earning a bunch of money the goal? Then I suppose getting the high gpa in order to get the consulting job might be the way to go. The thing is, most of my friends are engineers, and they just aren't interested in that sort of work. </p>

<p>Different companies want different things. Certain companies want their engineers from certain schools ... and with large corporations, local branches sometimes favor local schools. Company A might like School X's grads, while Company B might prefer School Y's grads. The beauty of engineering is that engineering grads are more in demand than the grads of many fields. A grad who has some work experience in the field will generally be more desireable than one who does not. If 2 students are vying for a spot, neither has relevant experience, and one has significantly higher gpa than the other --- gpa probably wins out. But if one has experience, it's another story. OF COURSE, some companies will be grade snobs --- but the one with experience has a good shot at many companies, even with a lower gpa. And after hire, even if the lower gpa gets a less "desireable" job, the gpa becomes less relevant than performance on the job.</p>

<p>Again, just my opinion. I should have said that at the outset --- but I always take advice on these threads as opinion only, and I figure everyone else does, too.</p>