Need advice on engineering major for good - not great - student

<p>ucla<em>ucsd</em>dad, ABET cert is not that important for private sector jobs but it is important in the public sector, particularly at the federal and some state levels.Also the PE licensing exams require graduation from an ABET certified program. So yes it is very important for many prospective engineers.</p>

<p>Originaloog:</p>

<p>But ABET doesn't seem to mean all that much in CS even in the public sector. The fact that there are so many top CS schools not ABET certified for their CS programs seems to bear this out. Maybe it's more important for the non-CS majors?</p>

<p>ucla_dad, op never mentioned that her daughter was interested in CS and I wanted to make sure that she check out programs her daughter was considering in engineering w/re to ABET.</p>

<p>BTW, our son too was a compsci major just graduating from RPI and now interning in Los Angeles until grad school begins. And yes, the cs major is quite difficult academically. Because of the academic program he designed I believe that it was much more time consuming than an engineering degree program his final three semesters. He was putting in insane hours on projects and his sr thesis which was no problem for him because he absolutely loved what he was doing(designing computer games).</p>

<p>Many students don't understand what a Computer Science major entails. Even in their Sophomore year. You can read the course descriptions but they probably don't mean that much to the typical student until sitting in the class doing it.</p>

<p>originaloog:</p>

<p>Yes, my D (just graduated as a CS major) put in huge hours in the lab and on the laptop on various programs. There were many all-nighters and lots of other nights with little sleep. In her last quarter she loaded up on several time consuming CS classes, including a graphics class where she also designed a game, a security class, and some other class. The compilers courses required huge amounts of lab time as well. </p>

<p>I agree that a lot of people don't realize the amount of work a CS major can require and it's not rote - it requires a lot of analytical thought.</p>

<p>These are three great math-intensive classes though many wouldn't recognize the math used for the compilers course. Security and graphics are hot areas. Compilers is a good hard-core software engineering area. There's not as much demand for compiler engineers because there aren't as many different hardware and operating system platforms as there were in the 80s and 90s. But the skills are still quite useful.</p>

<p>BCEagle91 said
[quote]
I have seen CS programs with much lower requirements in math, and that have more of a tools focus. Or programs that don't have the physics and logic design requirements focusing more on software aspects of computer science. My personal opinion is that these majors should go by other names. But CS has a certain familiarity to employers and maybe that's why it's used.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree that these easier programs should go by a different name. As it is, it's confusing. I guess the best way to differentiate these programs is by the math requirements?</p>

<p>PS Years ago I studied some CS (majors courses) at UIUC and one of those classes was an absolute killer. Great learning experience tho.</p>

<p>"I guess the best way to differentiate these programs is by the math requirements?"</p>

<p>It's pretty easy to tell by the names of the courses on their transcripts if there is access to them. If not, a five minute interview will suffice.</p>

<p>
[quote]
There's not as much demand for compiler engineers because there aren't as many different hardware and operating system platforms as there were in the 80s and 90s. But the skills are still quite useful.

[/quote]
This is true. The main purpose in the course isn't really to train a person to develop a compiler (although that did happen), it was really a means to an end of learning some pretty intensive development skills. This is really true for a number of other courses as well.</p>

<p>isacc asimov short story of a wanabe programer.
[Profession</a> (short story - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession_(short_story%5DProfession"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession_(short_story))&lt;/p>

<p>Not only does this country need more engineers...it needs more women in engineering. My DD is an engineering major (general engineering with a bioengineering concentration). She did not apply as an engineering major, but when she got to college she took the engineering sequence beginning her freshman year (for her that was calc, chemistry and biology...then physics, differential equations...then she declared her major and has gone on from there). She was a top student in high school but not someone who won math and science competitions, or was on the math team. She took no math or science AP courses, but did take all honors level courses and some dual enrollment CC courses. She always got terrific grades in high school and has always been a very linear thinker. She is finding the work very challenging, but she loves it. She is disappointed that she doesn't make the deans but when I suggested that she evaluate her major, she said she loves the work...and can't see herself doing anything else. Even though she only had one course to apply towards her degree (one of her dual credit courses from the CC got her some credit), she is on track to graduate in four years. She is taking a course this summer, however. She will not be doing a study abroad during the school year, but we are looking at some smaller study abroad option (that would probably not apply to her degree) for next summer. We really want her to have that experience, but if she goes abroad during the school year it will totally screw up her course sequence and that is not what she wants to do.</p>

<p>DH is an engineer also. He says that women should be encouraged to pursue degrees in engineering. There are not a lot of women in the field and many businesses are actively recruiting women in engineering. </p>

<p>I agree that this OPs daughter should enroll in the courses that she might need to pursue this degree. Either she'll love them and continue on...or she will change her major like many other students do. But there is no way for her to know unless she tries.</p>

<p>Your daughter has several different, but related, problems. </p>

<p>I cannot speak to how your spouses changing condition and eventual transfer to a care facility will affect, but prepare as well as you can. </p>

<p>Your daughter needs to have a clear idea as to what fields meet her interests and abilities. She let you know that engineering and nursing are of potential interest, but there may be others that are better suited for her current situation. Usually high schools do testing of vocational interest etc. While the results are often "obvious" to the student, and are not presented to the parents, sometimes the results are not obvious to the parents. Sit down with her and go over them, and see if additional (perhaps out of school) testing might be useful. </p>

<p>She also need to (eventually) identify appropriate schools to apply to. She will have strong, well justified, constraints on her finances. She should be able to get significant need based aid. I am under the impression that private colleges are often more forthcoming with such aid, than public schools. Most, however, are smaller than her ideal, and may have more limitations on her alternatives should her initial choice of a major not pan out. Be aware that while she may be only in the top 50% of her school, if the school she is at is as good as you say, and she can make the character she has shown in her life apparent on her transcript, what may appear to be extreme reaches based on just her grades, may be very reachable on application. If you both think she need some support on her transition to college, I suggest you look at woman's colleges with strong technical programs: Smith is best known for its engineering, Wellesley has (I believe) started an engineering program, and Sweet Briar (which specialize in "weaker" students) also has an engineering program. Barnard, through its relationship with Columbia, and Bryn Mawr, through its relationship with Swarthmore may also provide good technical degrees.</p>

<p>We can toss around tons of ideas, but you two are the ones that have to face the reality.</p>

<p>Thumper1 - Thank you for your D's story. My D is taking Algebra II at CC over the summer (for fun and as a PSAT review), and I'll see how she does at it. It's a good sign that she's enjoying the class, but a bad sign that she's doing homework in the middle of the night to keep up.</p>

<p>NMParents: You raise a very good point that interest testing may be helpful to focus her interests, and might help to come up with some majors that she hasn't considered yet. Up to now, I've been suggesting that she browse the available majors at schools that she's considering to see if anything leaps out at her. I'll call the GC to see what testing is available.</p>

<p>Neozeus, in terms of engineering programs themselves, some colleges have a non/1 credit course called EngSurvey which introduces students to the engineering programs offered by the college. It gives students information about what sort of specialties are in each major, what academic disciplines/abilities are needed, and what jobs the graduates will be qualified for on graduation.</p>

<p>I know that this is where I got the "Look to your left, look to your right. One of you three will graduate in engineering" comment. I dont think they do that anymore.</p>

<p>My daughter took that course...at her school it's called "Intro to Engineering". It gives info about many of the different engineering programs. No...they didn't tell the students to "look to the left/right".</p>

<p>Another thing I'm going to add here...while my daughter is having a challenging time with organic chemistry (required due to the biochem concentration), she has gotten no lower than a B+ in the engineering courses she has taken. She does much better with application of skills than memorization.</p>

<p>I'd also add that for many fields it isn't necessary to know before starting college that's what you want to do. A lot of kids enter college undecided, or with one idea in mind but find they like something else instead. The key is to take advantage of the career center at college from the start; take aptitude and other tests, attend talks and job fairs, many schools have programs where you can talk to current alums in fields you're interested in, apply for internships to get first-hand experience in a field, etc.</p>

<p>BTW the dropout rates in engineering ARE as high as 2 out of 3 at most schools (see EETimes.com</a>) So that "look to the left, look to the right" stuff is still true even if they don't say it anymore. I know there's been lots of posters who say your D should give it a try, nothing to lose, etc; but if she's struggling in Algebra II I wonder how she's going to fare when she's taking calc, chem, and physics at the same time.</p>

<p>FWIW I would be inclined to trust the basic judgment of your daughter. You describe a bright kid with good values. While she is having some problems with difficult classes, when you describe what she is going through in her life I think, "Who wouldn't in her shoes." She has earned the right to make her own decisions. She is the one that will have to live with their consequences.</p>

<p>I would ensure that she is fully aware of the issues involved. Unfortunately reading about them in a book, or hearing about them from a parent doesn't have the same impact as actually experiencing it. While she cannot get the full experience without entering school she can get some taste of it through appropriate college visits. I would have her identify the most appropriate alternative major to engineering and nursing, and then identify schools with reasonable programs in all three majors, within a few hours drive of your home. I would then encourage her to visit a couple of those schools before the end of summer, and not only go through the standard tour and info session, but also try to talk with someone from each of the departments offering the majors. She should not only get a better feel for each of the majors, but also identify a nearby match school that she likes. She should then plan to take off one day while the schools are operating and visit one class in each of those majors at that school.</p>