Hey CC- question for any parents that had to deal with a similar situation for their kid.
My niece had started college at a top university about three years ago, however she had a terrible first year as a result of clinical depression (due to an abusive household- won’t get into that). Anyway, as a result of her bad grades she left that school and took a year off and began living with me. Since then she had enrolled in a nearby private college and received perfect grades. The problem is that the first school will not withdraw her from her bad semesters.
We contacted them a year ago about a retroactive withdrawal for medical reasons, submitting their online petition form (she has a history of depression before college and her psychiatrist attested to its severity in a letter). We were then told to have her complete successful coursework and resubmit the petition. Well this year at her new college she had done exceptionally well, however when recently resubmitting her petition for a retroactive withdrawal from those semesters we were told that they need more evidence that mental illness was the case for her poor performance and that she would have to return back to their school and complete coursework there for them to consider a withdrawal.
To clarify what exactly they wanted, my niece sent the head of the committee an email asking for her advice on what she should do next in order to prove her case about a week ago. She also called their office directly and left a message on their voicemail. There is no answer and I’m getting worried- it feels like they have no intention of granting her appeal and I even have an inkling its due to the nature of her medical reason as a mental illness.
I could get a longer and more detailed letter from her psychiatrist if necessary, and any other medical documentation to prove her case, but returning to that college is impossible since it would be too close to her abusive home. And though this may mean nothing- I think how they are handling this is unfair. I don’t want my niece to have her good grades marred by the bad GPA she received under extenuating circumstances, and short of legal action I hope someone can tell me what I can do to help her.
Is she trying to transfer credits from the first college or has she pretty much started fresh at the new one? Will she earn her degree from the current/new college? I guess I am confused about why this retroactive withdrawal is necessary, or if she can just forget about it. People are only going to care about her GPA from the college she graduates from, if they care at all.
I would also speak with her current school on how they factor grades from another school on her transcript. My kid’s school does not take another school’s GPA, only credits. When they studied abroad or went to another school for a semester, the school gave them credits as long as they passed, but the grades were not part of their GPA calculation. Your niece’s school may not do that, but they may be able to assist (contact the other school) or give her an exception due to her illness. Your niece maybe over 18, but if I were you, I would be the one calling the school.
Agree with Bowie and Oldfort, this may not be an issue. Unless she is trying to get a refund- or there are financial aid implications, or she owes college 1 money, why does her earlier GPA matter? And in light of what she’s been through- how critical is the GPA anyway compared with her getting a fresh start and getting a college education???
It may seem like a fresh start- but if she wants to go to grad school or law school they will know she went to two colleges, and they will want to see grades- it could hurt her there in being admitted to a top school of her choice. The college nearby admitted her on the basis of her high school achievements, but still its a big red flag on her record. Even applying for jobs, it could raise some awkward questions that may hurt her for years.
I just am not sure how to advise her on her next step. She really believes she needs this withdrawal, and she raises a lot of good points and I hate to see any future academic prospects limited by what her parents had done.
I really just need advice on how to handle the first school, she’s trying to handle it herself and I dont think her current school will be able to help her here besides sending her transcript of grades, but if they keep ignoring her and putting her off, what can be done? I doubt they will pick up my calls any faster.
And no financial implications- that school is completed payed off through merit aid, there aren’t even any loans.
She needs to talk to an actual Dean at college A. Not a voice mail, not an email. But call during business hours, get the administrative assistant to put on the calendar "Tuesday 10-10:30 am- phone call with Joanne Smith to discuss completing her medical withdrawal ". Dean of students, academic dean, whatever nomenclature this college gives this person. During the conversation she can note that the chair of the committee doesn’t seem to be cooperating.
I still don’t think the formal withdrawal achieves what you think it does- a grad school which asks for the name of any college she attended (note- attended, which she did, albeit briefly) is still going to see she was a student there. Right???
Yes they will see she attended there, but it will only state that she withdrew for medical reasons- it won’t list the grades she had gotten and she won’t have to relive the experience of explaining her very real mental illness. The biggest thing I want from this, to be frank, is that she can move on and forget that horrid year, I don’t want it following her around and I don’t want her to remember those grades and think it was her failing, her fault. But that’s the more sentimental side of this whole ordeal. I want a truly clean slate for her.
On your (very insightful) advice to contact a Dean, do you think she should do it right away or give some forewarning to the committee chair? I’ll call this lady on the hour if thats what it takes, and if necessary I will go to the Dean. I can only hope they are more receptive.
Two semesters of Ws vs two semesters of bad grades at the first college - I also agree that it will make little difference for the future. The bad grades can be explained in the section of a grad school application that allows for additional information. The Ws also will need to be explained. This is why it doesn’t matter much as the explanations would be the same.
But if she had “Withdrew for medical reasons” rather than a list of F’s it would be a lot easier to explain and a lot easier for them to understand when they are considering her for admission. I don’t think they will pry too much in what the medical reason is.
But either way, I understand what you are trying to say. It won’t be the end of her life if she doesn’t get those withdrawals, and I am sure she will still continue her education- but I don’t think I should give this up until we exhaust every option for that withdrawal.
The biggest problem I have right now is that they expect her to return there before she applies again for the appeal. Do you think she (or I) can convince them otherwise, due to the circumstances and even the unfairness of it? (Not to sound like a petulant child)
But, I wanted to thank you all for your sound advice. I will definitely think on what you said tonight and discuss this with her. Really, thank you!
My son got a retroactive medical withdrawal, but his condition was diagnosed AFTER he flunked out. The timing of his diagnosis was considered crucial in getting the withdrawal: he did not know he was sick, and therefore did not seek the help that could have helped him perform effectively.
The school in question might claim that your niece failed to get the help she KNEW she needed, and therefore a retroactive withdrawal may not apply in this case. Your niece needs to be ready to answer this assertion. I’d recommend she approach the Dean of Students in person, humbly and politely. In my experience, school officials generally want to do right by their students. Here’s wishing her luck!
I’m glad to hear from someone who went through something similar.
As to that, her parents did not deign to tell her about her diagnosis at all. She only found out afterwards when her psychiatrist wrote the letter for her, apparently her parents thought that hiding it from her would be the best way to handle it- not even the worst of their mistakes.
I will definitely have her speak to the Dean if by the end of this week the committee chair continues to be difficult. And thank you for your wishes, lots of luck is needed!
I would also like to point out that this is middle of summer, maybe they are not returning her calls because they are away. I would also agree that most school officials like to do right by their students.
Expecting her to return- simple solution there- no tuition bill paid, she won’t be allowed to register for classes (or attend a class). So that’s a no brainer.
I think you’re stuck in the combination of everyone on their last bit of vacation until the semester kicks in, plus what you are asking them to do sounds really difficult. I think you need to turn this into a simple conversation with a Dean where all he/she needs to do is check a box, forward a three page packet to the withdrawal committee, and everyone moves on with life.
Page one- your D’s explanation of what she is asking for and why.
Page two- letter from a physician documenting why she withdrew and why it was based on sound medical advice.
Page three- the old transcript.
Can you clarify if your niece used any credits from her first college as transfer credits to her second college? If so, she might not want the record “wiped clean” with Ws, because then she could not use any credits from her first institution. Did she actually fail every class for two semesters? What was her status when she left the first institution? Was she dismissed or on academic probation?
The first institution is going to want her to come in and see them, armed with paperwork and documentation. This is not the kind of thing that is going to get handled over the phone. Students ask for retroactive withdrawals all the time and colleges are reluctant to give them, for obvious reasons dealing with the integrity and accuracy of transcripts. Essentially, your niece is asking for two semesters’ worth of grade changes, two years later (“W” is actually a grade on the transcript). There are usually deadlines for requesting them, and if a student waits too long, there may be no recourse. I wish her well.
@katliamom Maybe I can ask the psychiatrist to write it in a new letter, hopefully I can
@oldfort Well the committee supposedly meets every Wednesday, so I assume she is in at least on that day, and I also assume the emails are being read. I can wait if need be before I go to a Dean, maybe another week. But after that I will take yours and @blossom’s advice and tell my niece to go to them directly. I also want hope that they will have her best interests as a student in mind.
@NJSue No she didn’t use any credit from the first institution, however she did use a lot of highschool IB credits. No she didn’t fail every class, but a lot of them had incomplete’s that turned into F’s. There were a few B’s and A’s if I recall, but she hasn’t used them for her new institution.
I agree, it isn’t the best thing to handle over the phone, however that college is not close to my home and I don’t feel comfortable sending her anywhere near her parents. We did try to submit last year, when she started living with me and away from her parents, however as I mentioned in my first post we were advised to have her complete successful coursework. I also understand the institution not wanting to jeopardize their standing- however, it is for a well documented medical reason and she was not in a position, due to her health and living circumstances, to do anything before then.
I also did not see a deadline for it in the request form or anywhere on the information page.
Also, your niece’s case will most likely be considered by a university committee composed of administrators, faculty and deans. These committees meet at certain times during the semester (not in the summer) and they do not have ad hoc meetings for individual cases. So you can get the ball rolling by filing the paperwork, but don’t be surprised if you don’t get a quick resolution.
Are you sure your niece with have problems getting into future grad schools? I understand that MANY freshmen end up leaving after their first or second semester for many reasons that end up with poor grades. My own son left after his first semester and is taking a year off. He felt he wasn’t ready for college, even though he was an outstanding academic student in high school. I spoke with the college about this when he left and they said that as long as he is able to prove that he learned from the experience and has shown that he has learned to overcome what went wrong, that he will be fine to start again. College is really hard these day on kids both academically and emotionally. I really think it’s okay to have some failures that help you become better in the end. Your niece has become who she is now because of what happened that year. Perhaps she should embrace it instead of trying to erase it. Someone who learns how to overcome obstacles should be admired, not punished. Life isn’t perfect. What do others feel about this?
@lakevillemom Unfortunately there is still a stigma towards mental illness today in our country and having to explain to Grad Schools that yes, you had a mental illness, but were able to overcome or get it together enough to be ok now is both an invasion of privacy (do Grad schools really need to hear about your illness to determine if they deem you fit) and traumatic to have to relive the ills in retelling or persuading your case to that school(s).
I am surprised that the school is putting OP through these hoops to get the retroactive withdrawal which is most appropriate in this situation.
@NJSue It was informative, but I don’t believe the school’s policy has a withdrawal deadline, thank god. And as per their guidelines, the committee is said to meet every Wednesday.
@lakevillemom I hope that she can eventually not fear her past and even embrace it as a time in her life that she had the courage to pull through, but as I said there was abuse and there are many terrible things she will have to remember this time by, she doesn’t need anyone else reminding her of them as she tries to move on and through this moment.
@runswimyoga Thank you, you have put my feelings into words, and I am surprised too. I thought it would be a lot easier than the reality is, it is a prestigious (read: stuffy) school and this isn’t a topic many of their officials rally behind. I definitely will have her psychiatrist write a longer and more detailed letter to try and persuade the committee, and she has the grades to prove that she is capable of performing high academically. I don’t understand why they expect her to return back there in order for her to withdraw her grades from there! Thats the most absurd thing about this whole situation to me. We will definitely be fighting that.
I will definitely keep the kind people of this forum posted, my niece is taking the day off from her internship to call the office again directly tomorrow.