Need advice urgent! about German grade

Parents Forum
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<p>I've lurked here on this forum but haven't ever posted before. I'm in a really bad situation and could really use some advice. I attended a community college, then transferred to a top state university. I am just now completing my first semester there. I took 3 semester of German at the comm college with an awesome prof who used to teach at one of the top schools in the nation. He is the best prof I have ever met and really knew how to motivate us. He was very clear about what was expected and pushed us hard to excel. I did really well in his class and got a letter of recommendation from him saying I was one of 2% of his top students ever taught and I would help the other students in class.</p>

<p>I took 4th semester German at my current school and got stuck with a graduate student. She's young and obviously not very experienced as a teacher. I was at a disadvantage because most of the other students had her for the 1st 3 semesters, and were using a different vocabulary list. So first I had to catch up on words the others already knew. Then I had a personal trauma the first few weeks of school and missed some classes, and got behind. I almost dropped the class. I really love the language and had expected I'd do well but it just got off to a bad start. The teacher did let me retake the first test because she noticed how good my homework was, indicating I really did know some German, but I just ran out of time on the tests. What I did on the test was excellent but I just never could finish all of the test, so always got C's. The homework I usually got at least a B.</p>

<p>I knew I missed some of the homework so expected to get a C in the class. I even hoped I might pull off a B since I drastically improved towards the end of the semester. It really started to click and I even got an A on a class project, in which I had to speak in German in front of the class for awhile. I felt that even though I had a shaky start, the teacher could see how much I improved and so I should at least get a C, since all my tests were C's.</p>

<p>Well much to my horror, she gave me an <strong><em>F</em></strong>!!!</p>

<p>I am completely shocked! No way did I deserve an F! I emailed her and she said even though the work I turned in was good and my tests were good, since I missed a few of the homeworks and a couple of quizzes (back in the early days when I missed a few days), that lowered my grade to a D. Then, she claimed that I missed 14 days so that lowered it down to an F. Well, I know for a fact she is mistaken about how many days I missed. NO WAY did I miss that many! I estimate I missed maybe 5 or 6 days. But the reason she thinks it's 14 is that she is going by the signin sheet and I didn't always sign it because many times I didn't see it when I got to class. I didn't realize signing the signin sheet was such a big deal.</p>

<p>So now I'm screwed. This will mean not only having to retake the class but that I will lose all my scholarships, since it will bring my GPA down so much.</p>

<p>She said it's in her syllabus but it just says that a % of the grade is from a combination of homework, attendance etc. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine that I missed enough to bring my grade down to an F! She also claimed she told me to get a certification from Disability Services so she could allow me more time to take the tests (since I told her I understood the material but just ran out of time). I don't remember her saying that at all! I'm not disabled but do have a major insomnia problem and do get distracted easily, though I've never been diagnosed with ADD. I'm not sure they would've given me any sort of certification but the point is I could've tried for that had I known. I don't remember her telling me that so how could I know? It's possible she told me at the beginning but at that time I was having a hard time understanding her since she speaks only German but she's not even German she is from some other country so I didn't always understand her German. My previous prof only spoke German in class too but if he was giving instructions he tuned into the class and made sure they understood. Like if he used some new vocabulary we hadn't heard before he would clarify it. This woman just keeps on talking, with random vocabulay and if you miss something, too bad. </p>

<p>So here are my questions:</p>

<p>First of all, why in the world do I get a top Berkely prof at a community college, and then a graduate student at a top university? Isn't the education at the top schools supposed to be better? What is going on here? I never expected this!</p>

<p>Secondly, do I have any recourse? Can I contest this? She said she would talk to her department head and I did copy her on the email. But she didn't sound too encouraging. She insisted that she has records of how many classes I missed and is going by that. But I know the only record she could have is the signin sheet, and that is not accurate! But how do I prove it?</p>

<p>I think I should get a C but even a D I could sorta understand, but an F???? Is she out to get me or what? I never had any reason to think she didn't like me...how do I proceed without sounding whiney? I honestly don't think it's right for her to give me an F. </p>

<p>Should I email her the letter of recommendation from my former prof? On the one hand it could let her know that I really am a good student (3.8 GPA previously) so maybe she might think about whether she should take any of the responsibility for her inexperienced teaching methods, but otoh she might think 'yeah so what that doesn't mean anything that was just at the community college and this is the big time' but she doesn't know that he used to teach at Berkeley and told us he taught this class the exact same way, so it really was a high-calibre class. </p>

<p>What, if any, recourse do students have to contest a grade?</p>

<p>I could really use some advice. Thank you.</p>

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<p>First, take some deep breaths. If you haven't been able to sit down one-on-one with the instructor, that should be the first step. Then(if you don't get any options), I'd suggest that you schedule a meeting with the dean of students, or head of the foreign language department? You need to take the position of NOT being defensive, but perhaps seeing if there is a way to take an "incomplete" instead of an "F", to protect your scholarships, and see if there is any option to show that you have at least a "C" mastery of the material?</p>

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<p>I just got an email from her and she is going to let me keep the D instead of lowering it down to an F due to absences. (As I said, I believe she was mistaken about how many absences I had.) I had thought I had a C in the class, but I am grateful that at least I didn't fail. </p>

<p>I believe my mastery of the material is at least at the B level. A C would be based solely on the fact that I missed some homework assignments and didn't have time to finish the tests. I am certain that if I'd had more time, I could have made A's on the tests, because the sections I did complete were excellent. Although, I suppose it could be argued that 'A' level mastery would mean fluency to the point that I could compose my thoughts more quickly. </p>

<p>So, even though my mastery of the language could be demonstrated to be at the B level, of course the grade is not based solely on mastery but also on things like assignments, and I admit I did not complete all of them. Therefore I thought a C would have been appropriate.</p>

<p>I know they have their rules about grading, so I'm glad she at least was reasonable and left it at a D.</p>

<p>Thanks for your help!</p>

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<p>Agree with astromom, put all the facts down on a piece of paper and meet with her - be calm and polite - show how you figure you got a C; if that doesn't work go to the dean. The sign in sheet thing is really harsh; I can see how someone could miss those 10 seconds where the instructor says, "everybody needs to sign in every day or lose credit." But don't expect too much sympathy on the old professor giving you an A; that isn't the issue here, your perfomance in her class is.</p>

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<p>Even though I think I really did deserve a C, I'm not sure I should contest it any more. She very grudgingly agreed to let it sit at a D so I don't want to push it.</p>

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<p>Oh, sorry, cross-posted. I'm glad you did pass!!!! I guess it's a life lesson in how to deal with difficult people. Remember what does not destroy you will make you stronger. I hope you have a better second semester!</p>

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<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>Just out of curiosity, can someone explain to me why top state schools utilize graduate students to teach upper-level classes? I realize the graduate students need the practice, but shouldn't the education of the undergraduate students take precedence? I know this particular teacher meant well, and she did try to help me, but she just didn't have the same level of experience as the professors I'd had at the community college, so it seems really strange to me.</p>

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<p>Well...there are a couple of reasons. First, the state schools have huge enrollments and to have full time professors teaching everyone would be expensive. Second, many of the full time professors at these large schools are doing research AND are teaching the grad students. Thirdly, many universities offer teaching assistantships to top graduate students. This means that to earn their tuition payment and a stipend, they will be teaching. Since they are grad students, and usually top recruits for the grad program, they are presumed to be more accomplished at their discipline than the undergrads, and therefore can teach a section or two of the class. This is one of the things that is unpredictable about large universities that use graduate teaching assistants...some are actually excellent, and others just aren't good teachers (there is a difference between KNOWING the subject matter and being a good teacher of that subject matter).</p>

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<p>Do they do that at private schools too?</p>

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<p>Sometimes. If a school has PhD and upper level programs, they often use TAs (teaching assistants) to teach, especially some of the lower level courses to undergrads. Some schools do NOT use TAs at all...ever. DD goes to a private small university and one of the things that attracted her to the school was that it did not use any TAs...only full time faculty.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
He is the best prof I have ever met and really knew how to motivate us.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It is not your professor's job to motivate you. It is your job to motivate yourself. College is not elementary school.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I knew I missed some of the homework so expected to get a C in the class.

[/quote]

[quote]
I felt that even though I had a shaky start, the teacher could see how much I improved and so I should at least get a C, since all my tests were C's.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So you missed homework and expected her to ignore it? Did you read the syllabus to understand how grades were figured? If you had, you would have realized the trouble you were in. That is your responsibility, not your professor's - grad student or not.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Well much to my horror, she gave me an <strong><em>F</em></strong>!!!

[/quote]

She did not give you an F. You earned an F. Big difference.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am completely shocked! No way did I deserve an F! I emailed her and she said even though the work I turned in was good and my tests were good, since I missed a few of the homeworks and a couple of quizzes (back in the early days when I missed a few days), that lowered my grade to a D. Then, she claimed that I missed 14 days so that lowered it down to an F. Well, I know for a fact she is mistaken about how many days I missed. NO WAY did I miss that many! I estimate I missed maybe 5 or 6 days. But the reason she thinks it's 14 is that she is going by the signin sheet and I didn't always sign it because many times I didn't see it when I got to class. I didn't realize signing the signin sheet was such a big deal.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You most certainly deserved an F. You missed homework and quizzes. You missed many class meetings - even 5 or 6 in a semester is way too many for any class, especially a foreign language class in which you were struggling. Did you ever attempt to make up anything you missed? Why were you absent so much?</p>

<p>And please do not use the "I didn't know the sign in sheet was a big deal" excuse. Please. You know the sign in sheet is used to determine attendance. You know attendance is part of your grade (or you would, if you read the syllabus). So how would the sign in sheet not be a big deal? That's like saying, "I'm sorry, officer, but I didn't realize the posted speed limit was such a big deal." "I'm sorry, Your Honor, I didn't realize I had to sign in with the clerk before court." That stuff doesn't fly in the real world. You came from a CC, which is fine, but they tend to coddle more than the average university. Now you are in a real college. Grow up.</p>

<p>
[quote]
So now I'm screwed. This will mean not only having to retake the class but that I will lose all my scholarships, since it will bring my GPA down so much.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Consequences suck, don't they?</p>

<p>
[quote]
She said it's in her syllabus but it just says that a % of the grade is from a combination of homework, attendance etc. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine that I missed enough to bring my grade down to an F! She also claimed she told me to get a certification from Disability Services so she could allow me more time to take the tests (since I told her I understood the material but just ran out of time). I don't remember her saying that at all! I'm not disabled but do have a major insomnia problem and do get distracted easily, though I've never been diagnosed with ADD. I'm not sure they would've given me any sort of certification but the point is I could've tried for that had I known. I don't remember her telling me that so how could I know? It's possible she told me at the beginning but at that time I was having a hard time understanding her since she speaks only German but she's not even German she is from some other country so I didn't always understand her German. My previous prof only spoke German in class too but if he was giving instructions he tuned into the class and made sure they understood. Like if he used some new vocabulary we hadn't heard before he would clarify it. This woman just keeps on talking, with random vocabulay and if you miss something, too bad.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is just another long list of excuses. You are responsible for your grade and any accommodations you might need. Period. Did you ever seek extra help from her during her office hours? Of course not. Missing classes, too, probably didn't help you understand vocabulary. You knew missing homework and quizzes would hurt your grade, but instead of applying yourself to the class, you hoped for the best and are now stuck because it didn't work out that way.</p>

<p>
[quote]
First of all, why in the world do I get a top Berkely prof at a community college, and then a graduate student at a top university? Isn't the education at the top schools supposed to be better? What is going on here? I never expected this!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Again, your grade has nothing to do with her, but you.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Secondly, do I have any recourse? Can I contest this? She said she would talk to her department head and I did copy her on the email. But she didn't sound too encouraging. She insisted that she has records of how many classes I missed and is going by that. But I know the only record she could have is the signin sheet, and that is not accurate! But how do I prove it?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The sign in sheet is all she needs. Sorry. You can contest it, but you'll lose, and they'll roll their eyes behind your back. I promise. You blew off classes, homework, and quizzes, never sought extra help, never attended office hours, never tried to make up missed work. You blew it, bud.</p>

<p>
[quote]
how do I proceed without sounding whiney?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Too late.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Should I email her the letter of recommendation from my former prof? On the one hand it could let her know that I really am a good student (3.8 GPA previously) so maybe she might think about whether she should take any of the responsibility for her inexperienced teaching methods, but otoh she might think 'yeah so what that doesn't mean anything that was just at the community college and this is the big time' but she doesn't know that he used to teach at Berkeley and told us he taught this class the exact same way, so it really was a high-calibre class.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This one just made me laugh out loud. Oh yes, by all means email her the rec. If she was me (and she's not, but oh how I wish), she'd forward it to the prof with an account of your behavior. That way you'd lose the respect of the Berkeley-level prof, too. Good work. And quit blaming her for your screwups!</p>

<p>
[quote]
I could really use some advice. Thank you.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Grow up before you fail out of school. Trust me.</p>

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<p>You are making a lot of assumptions (such as whether I sought her help or not and whether I ever made up any of the work, etc.) and you don't know the whole story. But no matter; it has been resolved. I'm not going to bother taking on your points because you are not important to me. I will let this thread drop. Thanks for your obviously well-meaning sage advice.</p>

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<p>HerrNacht,</p>

<p>Generally colleges will give accommodations, including extra time on tests, to students with documented disabilities. If you think you have such a disability, you should go to your college disability office and get tested. Then, at the beginning of each term, you'll meet with each of your professors and discuss your accommodations.</p>

<p>It's worth checking this out. If you needed extra time on this test, you'll probably need extra time on other tests as well. There's no shame in getting help if you need it.</p>

<p>Navigating the disability maze at a college is not easy, but it's so worthwhile for students with disabilities. It can be the difference between shining success and dismal failure.</p>

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<p>HerrNacht said he did not have disabilities but a severe case of insomnia. This could be addressed fairly easily without resorting to disabilities policies.</p>

<p>It's water under the bridge now, but for the future, it's helpful to keep in mind all the requirements that are posted on the syllabus. In some cases, attendance is part of the overall grade. Absences must be made up. If possible, if a student knows in advance that s/he will need to be absent, it's important to let the TA or instructor know in advance and ask how to make up for the absence. If quizzes are missed, it is important to inquire right away how they could be made up. Don't wait until a grade has been turned in. </p>

<p>While I sympathize with HerrNacht on knowing the materials but running out of time, budgeting one's time is part of exam-taking. Every year, some student writes a beautiful outline for a midterm essay question, leaving little time for actually writing the essay. Unfortunately, TAs/instructors can only grade the essay that was submitted, not the one that could have been written had circumstances been different.</p>

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<p>This student's reaction to repercussions is normal in this day and age. It is never the student's fault. It is always someone else's. Everyone should accommodate them, but they do nothing to help themselves or accommodate anyone else. Notice that he only accepted advice that would help him get what he wanted but ignored and was defensive over anything said that made him responsible. We have a whole generation of kids like this. Most of us on CC don't have this situation, but boy, there sure are a lot like this out there...</p>

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<p>We also have a whole generation of people who make accusations without bothering to actually read the posts.
Accepting advice had nothing to do with the nature of the advice and everything to do with the timing of the advice. I thanked the person for taking the time to post, but stated that it is no longer relevant as it has been resolved. I don't appreciate your jumping to conclusions and making generalizations about me just because 'not accepting responsibility' may be 'normal' for many people. I do not feel obligated to defend myself. Suffice to say that there is more to the story than I explained here.</p>

<p>Thanks to everyone for your advice. I have learned from this experience. I will not be posting on this thread anymore, because people tend to dissect anyone who asks for advice and that's why I've never asked for advice before. I got what I needed so thanks again and I'll go back to lurking. If you want to dissect me without even knowing all the facts, go right ahead.</p>

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<p>I agree with HerrNacht about some/certain posters on this forum being very judgemental. If you don't feel that you can answer a poster's question without a lecture, don't bother answering at all. </p>

<p>There have been many parents chased away from this forum for the same reason that HerrNacht is being chased.</p>