<p>Many of us have kids that have some of this pressure to a greater or lesser extent. My S got great merit aid to a school he loves. D went to CC but was able to transfer to a school she loves. It was very tough for her, in terms of her self-image and the countless comparisons people made between her & brother & successful cousins. She has been just fine with it and did develop “tougher skin” while she was doing her transfer app & waiting to see how things would evolve. She’s very happy where she is.</p>
<p>Let’s face it, our kids WILL be compared, despite our and their wishes (heck, they compare themselves with othes around them as well). It’s best if they can figure out what THEY want and figure out how to achieve it, as well as dealing with the comparisons.</p>
<p>Helping your child figure out what will realistically work for your child is a great way to go, teaching life skills and developing a useful game plan!</p>
<p>Wow! Thank you all for your encouragement and sound advice! He will be home from school shortly and I know his SAT scores are going to be a topic as he was anxious to see what he got. I feel armed and ready to have a great conversation with him about it. He is such a great kid and so special in his own rite…I just don’t want to be the one that complicates it further for him so I feel like I have to be very careful what I say and how I approach the situation. His older siblings are VERY supportive and they are all extremely close. They have been talking to him about college choices. Both made very different decisions…oldest will come out with lots of debt but LOVED it at Duke and has had many opportunities for jobs…second oldest will have no debt but planned it that way because she knew she would be going to medical school…middle son has heard both their perspectives and their likes and dislikes…so all that is good. It is the pressure I see him put on himself and that of others that concerns me. I think he is awesome and want him to COMPLETELY understand that his dad and I want him to go to the place that is the best fit for HIM. It has taken him a year to come out of the shadow of his siblings and I don’t want him to go back into it now that he and all his classmates are comparing notes on what colleges to apply to. I love all the words of wisdom that you all have shared in this regard. I think we will keep a low profile about his college choices (although he is constantly asked in this small town) and really look outside the box at the multitude of awesome possibilities. The nice thing is that he is soooo proud of his siblings and is truly happy and excited for them…so I just need him to know that we feel the same way about him, no matter what his test scores say or what college he decides on. It seems that I tell him these things and he still seems so unsettled about it - almost like he doesn’t believe me. It would be a much different scenario if he had high test scores and still chose to go to a different school than what his sibs were interested in…</p>
<p>I should note that my husband and I didn’t go to a big name school…and our families inadvertantly help create the pressure by their constant praise of the 2 older ones as well as all the recognition the little sis gets. For example when D was choosing among schools some family belittled some of the other very worthy schools that they felt were ‘beneath’ her abilities. These are exceptional schools that now S2 will be considering as probably his reaches…ughhh! I am going to have to think of a quick comeback to prevent any comments that might be innocent but could come across as hurtful. </p>
<p>Just want to say thanks again for all the great suggestions. I do actually feel so much better about all of this.</p>
<p>No, I don’t think the OPs son should shoot “low” at all, not at all! I think he just needs to get out of the college aura of the other sibs. The OP didn’t mention merit so perhaps it would be better to build a list of “fit” schools for the son. If he’s just outside the top 10 going to a geographically different area of the country often yields merit money if you have a strong profile academically for that college. Building a nice wish list will also give the OPs son a starting point to start dreaming of something different…they have time to ‘fix’ the financial end of the list of they need to.</p>
<p>collegemomof2 - you are right…in speaking with my best friend today she scolded me for even saying that a 650 in math was low…I needed a reality check…I will admit that I am used to seeing much higher scores but I am proud of how he did on his first shot at the tests…I just know that HE will not be happy with his scores.</p>
<p>Ironically this situation can be expolated to many families. In our neck of the words if you kid doesn’t apply to U of Michigan people think there’s something ‘wrong’ with your kids. My kids absolutely dislike big, gigantic campuses where you have to bus back and forth from the dorm to class and a variety of fact of life aspects of big campuses, but goodness what the heck is wrong with your kid is the attitude people have. What the heck happens of two of your three kids go off to UofM and the 3rd has no desire to even try, then people assume the third is “not as smart.” There are two aspects of this situation the inner dynamics of the siblings and the reactions of friends, family and schoolmates and it can happen anywhere in the country not just in HYP land.</p>
<p>I would agree with a previous post that said a smaller LAC might be a good bet. Don’t know where you live but what about a Lehigh or Lafayette. These are just two great schools that come to mind. Then there’s Gettysburg, Dickinson, Bucknell, Muhlenberg the list goes on. All great schools who look at more than just an SAT score for admission. In fact a couple of those are now “SAT Optional” I think. If they have a good transcript and do well in an interview you can chose not to submit your SAT’s. However, with scores of approx 1300 he should submit them in my opinion (and remember that’s just his first try). Good luck!</p>
<p>I agree … And besides, the opinions of other kids at the high school, and / or other people in the community, really are of no consequence to him in the long run, so he needs to learn to develop the “smile but in-one-ear-and-out-the-other” mentality. The art of letting other people’s comments fall flat on the floor is a really important art to cultivate. Seriously. Because here’s the thing. He doesn’t need to justify to anyone why he’s not interested in Harvard, Duke, etc. </p>
<p>This “culture” where everyone-and-his-brother-in-high-school feels compelled to weigh in is a culture that we need to condemn just a bit more loudly on CC. It’s your son’s life; he gets to make his own choices and the only people that he needs to justify his decisions to are you and your spouse since you’re the ones paying the bills.</p>
<p>BM re: your post #24 “… I am proud of how he did on his first shot on the tests.” - Are you implying you wouldn’t be proud of him if he only got a 650 upon taking the SAT several times? I’m sure you don’t mean that. </p>
<p>Maybe I need the reality check- but a 650 SAT is a damn good score where I come. And if he is truly disappointed with that score- is it because he feels he can do better?; or is he sensing your disappointment?
Don’t mean to sound testy, but not everyone is capable of getting 1400/2100 on this exam.</p>
<p>my first thought is that you take him out to breakfast, tell him you have been thinking about what he told you about the pressure he is getting at school and reassure him that you are behind HIM in his goals.</p>
<p>Ask him to think about what he would want in a school and then help him try to find it.</p>
<p>If his current scores are too low for the school he wants, ask him if he would like your help in paying for tutoring or other test prep to make him more competitive but make sure your pride in him is what is clear and obvious.</p>
<p>Give him the tools to answer the kids at school most probably have no idea how it is affecting him so if he responds with something like “My brother and sister really enjoy their schools and all but I think I may be going for something smaller.” </p>
<p>Encourage him to find his own path and his own hearts desire and reassure him that the expectations of the people he currently spends his school days with won’t amount to a hill of beans once he has left high school. The person he has to please is himself.</p>
<p>HOLY MOLY! a 650 in Math we would have been dancing in the streets if either of my girls snagged one of those! Believe me your boys scores are far from low.</p>
<p>People in your town may talk…give them the “whatever” People in our little town were astounded that my D turned down a particular school in favor of a lower ranked campus that fit her needs better. It’s human nature to compare and gossip but it doesn’t have to have an impact on you or your boy.</p>
<p>^^Agree with your “talk” and why I don’t’ think you should “shoot low.” Colorado College, Carleton, WashU, the Claremonts…none of those are shooting low and are very competitive and selective colleges. He is a student many good colleges would like to have. HYP might be out of his league, but HYP is out of almost all kids’ leagues. Don’t get a “skewed” vision of the world of colleges and universities.</p>
<p>In fairness on the 600+ scores, they are above average, but not stellar enough for the Ivy bound; if the family has kids at top schools which like 700+ averages, they know the reality.</p>
<p>Anything above 600 is successful, is very good, but it is not outstanding, it just isn’t. My kids have gotten #s in the 6s and 7s and their school sent many kids to Ivy type schools, that 700 average is rather a magic number, so it is true that it is not high enough to feel a HPYS app is any more than a roll of the magic dice and a waste of $75 ;)</p>
<p>When my DD broke 1400 (old test) the GC said that was magic and I believed him as he sends kids to all the tough admissions schools. By the same token with around an 1850-1900 one could obtain merit aid at many small LAC schools</p>
<p>And how does this “astonishment” manifest itself? Are people really that rude that they would come up to you and express to you their surprise that your D turned down college A for college B? If that’s what small-town living is like, count me out. I absolutely cannot imagine saying such things to someone in real life. Even if the kid turned down Harvard for Southeast Montana State, why would you ever say anything to the kid or the parent beyond “Hey! Congrats and enjoy!”, unless you were expressly asked your opinion on the matter? Seems to me that one shouldn’t particularly care about unsolicited opinions from rude people.</p>
<p>Again, thinking inside the box doesn’t do credit for anyone. If your son articulates these ideas, parroting others, it’s easy to say, “Wow, how silly!”</p>
<p>My D cannot do standardized tests as well as my S. If you talked to them you’d swear she was the more verbal, tuned in person than her bro. Not according to the tests.</p>
<p>It’s something we had to deal with.</p>
<p>It came up again when it was LSAT time. Her scores are quite respectable, but not sterling. She is making peace with who she is. I tell her if she’s at a less competitive law school she has a better chance of distinguishing herself there.</p>
<p>Standardized tests are just one way of looking at a person. Unfortunately there are particularly influential in the college selection process, but then not again. That’s why the SAT optional schools are a boon. Someone mentioned Bowdoin, a school that <em>can</em> hold its own with the elite schools your other kids are at.</p>
<p>I did really well on SAT’s and GRE’s and it doesn’t help my life at all! Of course, I never mention it to folks, and because of other things in my life I didn’t attend elite schools.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl agree and gladly it’s not what small town life is “all” about. However one woman asked “Why did she do THAT?” another asked “What did YOU think of that?” her GC (I teach at the same high school) also made a comment or two to me along those lines. </p>
<p>Re my small town, I think that many adults take partial ownership of our kids.It’s the sort of town where they still print the honor roll in the paper and if you scored a goal in a soccer game you may make the front page. It’s mostly comforting and homey but it can get intrusive and rude but that is when you give it the “Whatever”</p>
<p>mythmom so true. OP you can maybe shine a new light on the pressure and show him how absurd people’s comments are simply by saying something like “How silly”</p>
<p>I’m a high school senior, and I see A LOT of myself in your son. I grew up with my parents talking about Ivies (I know thats not what your doing), which created a lot of pressure. I also felt pressured to redeem my family; my older brother and sister both dropped out of college. Like your son, I felt like I had a huge burden on my back. </p>
<p>I took the SAT’s once, and got a 1980, which really depressed me. I took the ACT and got a 30. I had gotten lower than this on a practice ACT. I realized that this wasn’t good enough. I believed that I was smarter than my test scores showed, and I worked my butt off studying for the next test. My mom even told me it was okay if I didn’t do as well as I wanted. I got a 35 (percentage equivalent to a 2340), and I cried (out of happiness) when I saw my score. </p>
<p>I got rejected from UPenn ED, and it was honestly the lowest point in my life. I run track, and ran my next few races with fury and desperation and put up some great times. And now I am being recruited by Dartmouth and got my likely letter a few weeks ago. </p>
<p>Basically, from my experience, the college application process will teach you new things about yourself. It will be filled with extremes: extreme stress, sadness, and happiness. But thats what makes it so rewarding when its finally over, no matter what school you attend.</p>
<p>marny1 - of course, you are right, I would be proud of him no matter how well he did…HOWEVER, the big issue here is not how I feel - it is how he feels. I should clarify by saying that he is an overachieving type in many aspects like his older sibs. He is well liked and well respected and is VP of the student body etc. He has the same GPA that his sibs had (maybe a little lower than his sis). The problem is that HE feels that his scores are low. When you live with 2 older sibs who had great scores that were all over 700 and who both had lofty goals, I think he feels his scores are too low. He is using his frame of reference - his sibs scores. He also experienced both of them visiting and applying to many schools. He witnessed the acceptances and the rejections. When he was a sophomore he told us that he had no interest or desire to even look at an Ivy and we had no problem with that at all. Now things are changing and his friends are all talking about colleges and it seems that the teachers and kids at school are all EXPECTING that he WILL go to one of these HYP schools. AND to our surprise…this past fall, he actually starting talking about looking at some of these schools. When his PSAT scores came back he was devastated. They were comparably lower than his sibs and many of his close friends at school. He was so upset over it. Once again we were very supportive - c’mon, it’s just a test and frankly I think too many people put way too much into its value (just my op). So, I told him that I would do whatever I could to help him improve his scores - because HE wants to. </p>
<p>I posted to this thread because I am realizing that I am sort of caught walking a tight rope. I know he now has aspirations of top schools, and I know his scores are too low. I want to encourage him and help him score higher on the tests but sometimes I think he views this as pressure to perform like his sibs. BUT if I don’t encourage him then he thinks that I don’t think he is capable of doing it. Ughh…plus I know what people are saying to him because he has told me and this adds another dimension to his situation. <em>sigh</em> I love this kid so much and have been by his side through 10 years of chronic illness. For all that time he was the smallest kid in his class and didn’t start really growing until the migraines stopped. I am thrilled that he is FINALLY healthy and blossoming into a wonderful young man and I don’t want to screw it up. I want him to feel GOOD about himself and not feel like he is in the shadow of his sibs. The advice I have received on this thread has been very helpful. I LOVE some of the college choices that have been mentioned and the approaches that I can take in guiding him. I really just needed some encouragement and some insight from those who have had similar experiences. My comments about his scores being low were not meant to offend anyone else, as I understand that to most(including myself) these are great scores,but to him, they were not. </p>
<p>When he came home from school today I was very concerned and had no idea how he was going to react to the scores he just got…but he was very postitive. He will be taking a review course before he takes them again. I mentioned some of the colleges that everyone suggested and he actually seemed excited to look into some of them. We are going to head out next week to look at colleges in the Boston area and I look forward to having lots of one on one time to talk with him.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl - I don’t think people intentionally are trying to be mean or rude. Unless you walk in someone’s shoes I sometimes think people have no idea how hurtful their comments can be perceived. I can’t get over the RUDE comments people have made about my DD going to Harvard. Many times when she is home, she will not admit where she is going and just say that she goes to school out in Boston. It is what it is and it is part of this journey we call life! Just trying to help my son see the positive!</p>
<p>Forkingjamie…LOVE YOU! You are living the point I try to make to my kids all the time. Life is about the JOURNEY!! The ups and downs and tribulations are what make us who we are! Good for you for recognizing that!! It has taken me many years and many ups and downs to realize this and be happy in the moment. Your parents I am sure are extremely proud of you - but not for getting into Dartmouth but for becoming such a mature young woman! Good luck to you!</p>
<p>So they ask it. Why can’t you just say “Because she wanted to” or “I’m fine with that and I’m really happy for her”? Why do you feel bad that you’re not answering their question to their satisfaction?</p>
<p>I mean, if someone asks you “How much do you weigh?” you don’t have an obligation to actually answer them and take their question seriously, do you? And you wouldn’t feel bad about not giving them the information that they’re seeking. </p>
<p>As for people who are jerks about your D going to Harvard, they’re the ones who look small and petty.</p>
There’s no two ways about it, when you are following in the footsteps of a highly successful sibling (or in this case two!) it’s hard not to feel inferior. My younger son felt badly about his scores too - he had a great verbal score, but both math and writing were under 700. He was lucky though, he felt better when he had nevertheless done better than all his friends. So he is able to put the scores in context. He took the SAT again, scores were virtually the same, and he said “I’m done.” He also had issues with grades - low B’s in Latin and a couple of other bumps. His brother was No. 8 in a class of almost 700, he’s not quite in the top 5%. So we put together a list of schools with that in mind. At first glance that list might look pretty similar to the list of a kid with perfect scores. It has two Ivies (though one is just to make Dad happy), Georgetown SFS (which we think will reject him), Tufts (which has quirky essays which I think he did very well on), Vassar (where being a boy may help), U of Chicago (which is known for looking beyond scores and grades for diamonds in the rough and indeed accepted him EA), American (safety - he loved it which is why he felt good about a relatively aggressive list.) If he hadn’t gotten into U of Ch, he would have applied to a second safety and William and Mary (which like Vassar is looking for boys). </p>
<p>Earlier on in the process a few parents of his friends asked me if he was looking at Ivies, and at the time we thought probably not, based on his grades. I don’t think they were being jerky - they just didn’t know that while he’s as capable as their kids his grades aren’t as good.</p>
<p>Really, if you can find a couple of safe schools and a couple of test optional schools your child loves, he can round out the list however he likes.</p>
<p>As for the parents wondering why “no Ivies”, I just look on it as an opportunity to educate them on the other great schools out there. We’ve gotten pretty used to that conversation as my oldest turned down Harvard for Carnegie Mellon.</p>
However one woman asked “Why did she do THAT?” another asked “What did YOU think of that?” her GC (I teach at the same high school) also made a comment or two to me along those lines. </p>