need advise--similar to "are we being too stingy" post

<p>Hi all. First time poster here. Thanks in advance for all of your wonderful advice. Love this CC site. My daughter is a junior in high school and just like "are we being too stingy" poster, she too wants desperately to go out of state. We live in New Mexico and its a fact that the in state schools here are not very good esp in regards to the grad rates which are 50% and lower. We are a middle income family and most likely will not receive any need based aid. We have repeatedly told our D that OOS schools are totally out of our price range. I ..her mom...have looked into Fort Lewis College and Adams State College bc the tuition at these two schools are the lowest I have seen so far that are OOS...above us in Colorado. We can get in state tuition at these schools but it is still out of our price range sadly. A bit about our daughter...when she was in middle school she was struggling to keep up and was heading towards a C D F kinda student as she was unorganized and didn't know how to study for tests etc...UNTIL she got into a program called AVID (advancement via independent determination) which really turned things around for her. Now she is a A B student w a 3.7 gpa...so yay for my D!! She works hard for her grades and recently found out that she was one of 20 students who scored the highest on her PSAT test and will be taking it again soon to try to qualify for the nat'l merit scholarship. She is no longer involved in AVID but she has maintained her grades in hs, is on the tennis team, involved in a couple of clubs at school and has some community service volunteer work via church and also at the zoo last summer. She had dreams of wanting to go to Vasser, Duke etc. I thought Ah Lordy..hmmm yet happy that she has these dreams. We have explained to her that if she wants to go OOS that we could prob afford to pay... at one of the Colorado colleges mentioned above.. 1/4 of her dorm/meal ticket and her books but that is about it and that she'd have to get scholarships (from the web or The ultimate scholarship book) , merit s ships and get a weekend and/or summer job to pay for the rest. Adams state yearly tuition is 12k and room and food ticket is about 8k. We ..my husband and I ...recently paid off a ton of debt (international Chinese adoption, c card debt (china flights) ..and husbands school loan!) so we are absolutely adament about her NOT accruing any school loan debt! We have toured 2 in state colleges Eastern NM state (get this...tuition is only about 3k) and New Mexico State Univ which is not much more. These are not bad schools at all really ..besides the grad rates. I told our D that she'd be part of the percentage of grads who DO graduate and that she could go OOS for grad school if she wanted. She can go to ANY NM state college for free practically w the NM lottery s ship ...the only requirement is to graduate hs w a 2.5 and go in the fall of the same yr she graduates! Thats it and its FREE!!! She (similar to "am we too stingy" poster) wants to go to a college where "there is something to do". My hope is w maturity she will get a grip on what we are saying to her about cost , struggling to pay debt off for quite possibly a long very long time, importance of going to school bc its to learn ..and not go snow boarding etc. Are we on the right track here? Should we just keep encouraging her to keep her grades up, do well on tests..ACT, SAT, apply for s ships and let her decide if she STILL wants to go OOS She recently took the ASVAB test at her school so she can get some clarity on what her career interests are. She seems to like Animals Sciences which New Mexico State has a great program for. Sorry for long post. Feedback, advise etc is most appreciated. Thanks</p>

<p>Can you summarize:</p>

<ul>
<li>HS GPA (unweighted)</li>
<li>SAT and/or ACT scores</li>
<li>How much you are willing to contribute to here college costs</li>
</ul>

<p><a href=“Links to Popular Threads on Scholarships and Lower-Cost Colleges - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1678964-links-to-popular-threads-on-scholarships-and-lower-cost-colleges.html&lt;/a&gt; can give you an idea of what low cost colleges and big scholarships there are.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Median income in the US is about $50,000 over all households, a little under $70,000 for households headed by people age 45-54 (common age for having high school or college students). Income in these ranges can result in substantial financial aid at many private schools with good financial aid – check their net price calculators.</p>

<p>Yes, it would be helpful to have a number in mind for what you could/would pay.</p>

<p>Middle income families do often get need based aid. Do you know about the net price calculators on each college website? They are on the financial aid page. You put in your income and assets, and it gives you an estimated cost of attendance.</p>

<p>I will say that if she is interested in veterinary school (you mentioned animal sciences), she would do very well to go someplace where she would have no debt and get high grades. Vet school is expensive and it doesn’t pay that well, so no undergrad debt is a good thing.</p>

<p>It is going to be hard to tell much without test scores. Here is a list of schools with automatic scholarship for stats:</p>

<p><a href=“http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/”>http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>And here are some automatic waivers of OOS tuition (so students with these stats pay in-state tuition):</p>

<p><a href=“Automatic Out-of-State Tuition Waivers - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1505285-automatic-out-of-state-tuition-waivers.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Crossing my fingers that she does well on her Junior Year PSAT. If she does, she has a chance to be a National Merit Finalist which will give her some wonderful opportunities for decent schools (the Ivy’s and some high rep. schools do not participate.) Go to the Financial Forum of CC and there are saved threads about Where you can get merit scholarships and National Merit Schools. In that finacial forum, you can go to the top and find National Merit Scholarship…hit it and there is more information about becoming a NMF. Even if she ends up not doing well on her PSAT, if she does well on her ACT or subsequent SAT there might be scholarship opportunities for her. (For example, University of Alabama offers free tuition for anyone with a 32 and above.) Either way its great that you are looking into opportunities now. Good luck.</p>

<p>Nothing beats @free. Congrats to your daughter for her excellent effort. It will serve her well in life to know that if she works hard she can make things happen. </p>

<p>How are the honors programs in your state schools? Sometimes that can make all the difference. </p>

<p>Good luck with the testing!!!</p>

<p>OP- it will help a lot if you can start to deal in real numbers. People in real life like to say things like, “My kid got a half tuition scholarship” which of course sounds so impressive- but if half means the parents are still on the hook for 40K per year, plus transportation to get the kid there and back, and if that’s out of reach, it doesn’t help anyone.</p>

<p>Pull your financial information together and run a few scenarios at a couple of colleges just to see if your income would qualify you for need based aid at the schools she thinks she’s interested in.</p>

<p>If not- at least you know it now. If yes, you need to compare and contrast to see if you’ll get a better deal with need based aid vs. a merit scholarship somewhere else.</p>

<p>You also need a hard dose of reality re: the outside scholarships. In general, these fall into three buckets:</p>

<p>1- small local things (garden club, the book award, service award from the Elks) which are a great honor, but are barely going to make a dent ($500 here and $500 there is nothing to sneeze at, but they aren’t making an unaffordable college affordable.
2- significant, generous merit awards from the actual college. these can be quite substantial, but your D needs to be at the top of their applicant pool to get the really big ones. Some schools hand out 5K merit awards like candy… it makes people feel good to know they are wanted. But if the school isn’t at all affordable now, an extra 5K isn’t likely to bridge the gap. (or maybe it is, and then- how fabulous to know that up front). You need to read the fine print. What GPA is required to keep the award for sophomore year- how many kids lose the award due to bad grades, will your D get reinstated if she has a medical withdrawal but then is ready to return a year later, etc.
3 - the national merit scholar awards and other national type things that your guidance counselor probably has info on. These range from small to generous. They can be fantastic opportunities but again- fine print.</p>

<p>Good luck…</p>

<p>Well, once she has test scores and maybe NMF status, then we can better advise.</p>

<p>How much can you pay each year? </p>

<p>NM does have some good schools for serious students. However, if her stats end up high enough, she will have some OOS options.</p>

<p>And there are some OOS schools that have lowish costs. U South Dakota has a low cost…the OOS cost is the same as instate. There are two publics in Maine that have an OOS COA of about $15k. </p>

<p>But, if her scores end up high enough, she’ll have a number of other options.</p>

<p>What do you think she’ll major in? What is her career goal? edit…I see …animal sciences…does she want to become a vet?</p>

<p>Are you part of the WUE? <a href=“http://wue.wiche.edu/search_results.jsp?searchType=all”>http://wue.wiche.edu/search_results.jsp?searchType=all&lt;/a&gt;
I feel her pain though, we are in UT and instate is not part of my plan as a parent.
Really though, she should be on the site herself, she should be looking at common data sets and NPCs herself. She should at least be looking at what kids looking for scholarships have to offer in comparison with her own achievements and plans. Has she got skin in the game? Is she opting for the most rigorous choices at school? Is she actually being realistic about her plans? </p>

<p>Your daughter did well to get good test scores. However, you need to realize that being in the top 20 of her school will not make her a NMF Many schools have no finalist, and very few schools except for the gifted and talented or tech schools have more than a handful.</p>

<p>Set your budget and make her figure out how to get to an OOS school. It is going to be hard to beat $3k in tuition. What doesn’t she like about NM schools? How would Ft. Lewis or Adams State be any different (and how are you getting instate in Colorado too?). I know a lot of people who have attended those schools, and they are fine, but nothing she couldn’t get at a NM school.</p>

<p>I think that a lot of this wanting to go OOS is the ‘grass is always greener’ and there is really no benefit to the student academically, socially, or even personally. Throughout life there are always ideas that things would be better if only… that there is a dream job, house, car, vacation. Dreams are fine if you (she) can afford it, but she may miss opportunities if she is always dreaming. </p>

<p>Just set a budget.</p>

<p>Have to agree – the simplest is just to set the budget and let the student find the financial aid or scholarship money if s/he wants to attend something more expensive than the budget. And tell the student well in advance of making the application list. Actually, it may be better to make the student aware of budget limits in general terms earlier, and ensure that the student knows that performance in school and standardized tests can affect opportunities for scholarships and admission to schools with better financial aid.</p>

<p>My D is a freshman at UNM this year. I want to clarify some things for you, OP. </p>

<p>1) The new HS GPA requirement is a 3.0 to get the $1500 Bridge Scholarship for the first semester. A 2.5 GPA will net your D a $1000 Bridge Scholarship for the first semester. You are on the hook for the rest of the tuition plus fees for the first semester. Using today’s tuition numbers for UNM (NMSU’s tuition is slightly less), tuition plus fees for the 15 required hours for the scholarship is $3223. Assuming your D gets the $1500 Bridge (very likely), you would pay OOP $1723 plus books for the first semester. If she lives on campus, add another 9k for housing and required meal plan. Also, the required freshman orientation fee is $175, for a new total of $1898. If your D majors in a science area, expect another $75 in lab fees, breakage fees, and lab book fee for each lab class per semester.</p>

<p>2) By the 2nd semester, provided she maintains a 2.5 GPA, you would still have to pay $725 per semester in fees. This amount will likely be higher when your D starts college. So, it’s not completely free.</p>

<p>3) There are many WUE out-of-state schools your D can attend and get in-state tuition. Don’t limit her to a small school like Adams College just to save a few bucks. She should attend where there’s a good program for her intended major.</p>

<p>4) The low graduation rate is more a reflection on NM’s poverty rate and due to thousands of freshmen starting with the bridge and lottery scholarships and then not being able to afford the rest or dropping out because they need to work full time to pay bills. Or, those coming in with the 2.5 GPA can’t keep up with the college curriculum.</p>

<p>If you can’t afford to send your D out of state even with some scholarship money, have her apply for the top scholarships at the state schools which will cover the first semester (no need for the Bridge money), plus fees and books. In the event that the lottery scholarship money dries up (which is a very real possibility), your D would still be covered with the school scholarships. My D was offered top scholarships at both UNM and NMSU. She chose UNM based on her major. She lives on campus and loves it! </p>

<p>There are other scholarship opportunities for incoming freshmen from outside local businesses that aren’t hard to get, either. My D got them and your D can too provided she has top grades, a high score on the ACT, and school/community involvement.</p>

<p>Just seconding the WUE recommendation. New Mexico is part of the system. She could theoretically go to a western school for either instate tuition or a deep discount on the OOS (though it’s select schools in each state.) We know a few kids from California using this to attend schools in Colorado and Nevada. Adams State, for example, you’d save 5316 on tuition through WUE. </p>

<p>WUE does not grant instate tuition to OOS students; it’s 150% of tuition plus fees. Usually a great deal, but not instate rates. At some schools (Wyo) the scholarships are limited and very competitive.</p>

<p>Keep her working her part to earn all discounts she can. Working for her means the best grades, and ec’s she can get in hopes of scholarships so she contributes her fair share. Hopefully, she can learn from OP experience about the difficulty of paying “a ton of” long-term debt, and the limits on one’s life and lifestyle if one has a great deal of debt. I DO think parents are on the right track to convince student about dangers of long-term debt- but it may be a “hard sell” given the parents’ choices.
For the parents, they have to balance life choices. What % of income goes here? there? there? Or somewhere? Although junior yr is a bit late to think of that. A parent’s distribution of income is a pie and if one piece is made bigger then some other piece is made smaller. Those with a larger piece benefit, those that get a smaller one just have to deal with it. Money given(spent) on item X means less money to give to item Y. A parent also, has to look at that distribution so all “pieces of the pie” get their fair share. I can’t tell from the Op how long parents have been saving for this child’s college, but I get the impression they have not amassed a pile of money.
To be fair to the student, be clear, up-front- how much you are willing and able to chip in toward the gift of their further education. Then seek colleges. Don’t seek colleges and then look for affordability.</p>

<p>The median income in NM is $45,000 per year. Your child can go to an Ivy for free if your family makes $60,000 per year or less. Up to $120,000 per year is scaled from 0% to 10% of the cost.</p>

<p>The level your income would have to be to get no aid would be more than $200,000 per year.</p>

<p>It seems like you said you paid all your debt off then said you still have it. Debt in particular is going to hurt as colleges don’t count debt and monthly debt payments when they consider how much you can afford.</p>

<p>Have you run some net price calculators? I don’t think it is fair to “expect her to be mature” if you haven’t even tried to run some, especially if your income is below the $120,000 per year range.</p>

<p>I do understand that even $10,000 per year is beaten by $2,500 per year, but is it her fault that you did an international adoption? Maybe she’d end up taking on some of her college loans herself.</p>

<p>I don’t agree with affordability being considered first without knowing your EFC and your debt level. Some people wouldn’t even afford a few thousand per year due to high debt. But again, do you have a lot of debt or is it gone?</p>

<p>PS - we have a spreadsheet of schools, and we have columns with 25th percentile and 75th percentile SAT scores. If your daughter is well beyond the 75th percentile SAT score of a school (using projected SAT score from PSAT score if she doesn’t have an SAT score yet), you should consider making sure they have an honors program, or look elsewhere. My son’s SAT scores are 200 points above 75th percentile SAT M + CR for the three cheapest schools on our list. His top choices have 50th percentile just below and just above his scores, but they do have higher costs. It’s not an absolute gauge, but it gives you an idea.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Yes, WUE is 1.5 times the in-state tuition at the other-state school (not all schools in the WUE states offer it).</p>

<p>Note that some schools (e.g. some in South Dakota) have normal out-of-state tuition that is less than 1.5 times in-state tuition, so WUE makes no difference there.</p>

<p>Yes, I stand corrected. WUE schools are at a discount, but not equal to in-state. Some of D’s friends attend Texas Tech which is only a few hours away and that school does offer in-state tuition rates plus merit scholarships for NM applicants, but that’s not the same as the WUE program. There are, however, many schools in Colorado and AZ that offer in-state tuition as part of their scholarship program based on ACT and HS GPA, but according to what I infer you can pay those schools would still cost too much for your budget.</p>

<p>Ok, I’m not going to comment on the affordability of any option. But, Adams State??? Has your D ever visited Alamosa? It is not exactly a “hot” spot. (It’s my dad’s hometown, so I’ve spent quite a bit of time there - not by choice!) And my dad and uncle attended Adams State in the stone age and, unless they have really improved, I can’t imagine that it is much better than your local NM schools. just my 2 cents. </p>

<p>Hi! I’m also from New Mexico and am now at USC-- I completely understand her wanting to go out of state for college. That being said, NM Tech is a phenomenal in-state option if she wants to pursue a STEM career. If she’s adamant about going out of state, make sure she works hard for National Merit! It opens up an incredible amount of doors.</p>