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While I do agree to an extent, because of how I was brought up culturally, that it is a shame if two Ivy league grads cannot afford to send their kids to the college of their choice, (which in my culture would make them a failure in that they weren't able to provide their kids the opportunities they were provided by their parents) I personally couldn't care less as long as it wasn't hurting someone else's financial aid.
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<p>But you don't know whether those parents of Ivy leaguers paid cold, hard cash to that Ivy League school for the education of their offspring. The opportunities that a parent provides aren't restricted to financial ones. The parent who went to an Ivy school may him or herself have gone to that Ivy school on scholarship. </p>
<p>A parent may have opted to stay home while the kid was growing up, and educated him, formally or informally. That's an opportunity for which many families take a financial hit. That parent provides opportunities to the child; it may be that the parent, in, say, homeschooling the child, has given the child an opportunity to go to the Ivy school not because the parent can afford it, but because the child has grown into someone who has the educational background, the love of learning, the drive, to be a competitive applicant to that school, because of that parent's teaching.</p>
<p>Oh, I was assuming their parents paid the cold hard cash. And I'm certainly not disputing the fact that there are many other noble ways to spend your time, other than making money. But good luck to me if I tell my parents that they are paying for me to go to college without me being able to do it when my time comes!</p>
<p>Gosh I wonder if my Ivy educated friend who teaches on an Indian reservation in the middle of freaking nowhere doesn't deserve help if his very brilliant daughter gets accepted to his alma mater. This is such a sad thread topic I can't even believe that there are people who think like this in this country.</p>
<p>^^
I agree with you fully. It's interesting that you say that it's sad people think like this in this country. From what I've observed from POIH's posts is that he is an immigrant from India (not like Indian reservation) and a lot of immigrants from West Africa, China, and India have this sort of mentality, especially for males. Trust me on this one, I've lived with it. I'd be more surprised if a non-immigrant held a belief like this, but when people come from countries where the vast majority of people are living below the poverty line, it's sort of a, "How can you turn down money?" kind of question, or "Make as much money as you can!" kind of advice. I wouldn't say it's a poor reflection on who POIH is, or a lot of people in my culture, it is just the circumstances.</p>
<p>Well, to set the record straight, colleges do not evaluate the capability of parents to provide for their children except by how much money they earn and have. However, because college education is considered the responsibility of the parent, those with the capability (defined by the colleges themselves) are expected to pay. THis is in itself an flaw in our financial aid/college situation since those kids whose parents do have the money, and will not pay or have not managed their finances so that they can pay, are disadvantaged in the college process. However, if the parents do not have the money, the kids are eligible for financial aid.</p>
<p>Bear in mind that parents who do not make enough to pay for college take the risk that their kids are not going to be able to go to the college of their choices, as few colleges meet full need. Not only do the kids have to get into a college that meets full need, they need to get need defined the same way the parents define it, and there are often loans involved. It is not easy for those families who cannot pay for college.</p>
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Isn't it a fraud? It is like Obama children trying to get the advantage of being URM when it is time for Ivies admissions.</p>
<p>Parent ability to make money should be considered while making decision regarding need based financial aid.
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<p>How do you quantify that, POIH? If I have an elite college degree but I decide to be a pastor or social worker, should it be assumed that I "could have" been an investment banker on WSJ and therefore I really should have been making a couple hundred thousand a year, if not a million? </p>
<p>You may also be unaware that in a case where both parents are grads of elite universities, they may have incurred so much debt to be there that it is not immediately practicable for them to be able to send their kids to similar schools. I know this is the case for quite a few dual-grad couples of my own top 20 school. </p>
<p>Like you, I am fortunate enough to be able to pay for my children wherever they want to go. My suggestion is to be grateful for the combination of good luck and hard work that got you there, and stop stewing about others who haven't, since it doesn't take away from you in the least.</p>
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I recently came across a thread where a student indicates that his parent both graduate of the top Ivy school earns collectively less than $60000 and so they won't have to contribute a penny towards the tuition.</p>
<p>Isn't it a fraud? It is like Obama children trying to get the advantage of being URM when it is time for Ivies admissions.
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<p>I recently came across a thread in which a father was trying to game the system by taking advantage of his daughter's field hockey interest, figuring that if he could "work the system" on her behalf, she'd be in to the Ivies, which of course this poor man thinks are the only schools in the country worth attending! Always looking for an "in." Shameful, isn't it? When everyone else just relies on their grades, scores and genuine interests to present their profile.</p>
<p>I have always had a question about parents owning businesses. I know some people who's EFCs are 0 because of this. If your parents work at the business and own it, on financial aid it shows up as them not making any income. Does anyone know anything about this? (such as hotel/motel/shop owners)</p>
<p>There are some advantages to owning a business, but there are the pitfalls as well. One of them is that it is very possible not to have an income. If costs and investments into the business are such that there is no money left over, the owner goes without pay. A situation that many small business owners know about. From what I have seen, there is no huge windfall or any at all in owning a business from financial aid perspectives. I believe some changes were just made this year, in fact, to adjust for some true disadvantages.</p>
<p>Businesses are tricky. If it's a partnership or S corporation, for example, then all the income of the business is attributed to the partners/shareholders. They are charged with the net profit as income, even if they plow it back into the business. So it's rare for someone who owns a small business to show 0 income.</p>
<p>I know someone who is retiring the year before the kid graduates, after earning a substantial income for many years. He was asking me about fin. aid. He seems to think his income will be low and the kid will qualify for fin. aid. Or what if you didn't work that last year before college and had a large amount of home equity and just used that money for income? That would show up as income on the FAFSA, sort of like a loan to yourself.</p>
<p>OP, we all need to vent from time to time, but you're stressing over something in which you have no control. Because, if you had the control to do something about this, I would hope that posting this thread wasn't the solution. When you are 'on the outside looking in', it's easy to say what someone else should or should not do. Is it really the inner city kids you are concerned about the legacies taking FA from or is it your own?</p>
<p>Getting the best deal via financial aid via need is a moving target. If you can hit it dead on, great. I know families who played FAFSA to the max because of a divorce situation, and with mom and dad colluding, the student could get need based aid. But that is only at FAFSA only schools, and what do you get from that? Pells are less than $5K at most, and the only other thing guaranteed is loans. To go through all the trouble to target a school that might meet EFC only is taking its risks, especially as FAFSA only schools do not tend to meet full need. There is always a risk when you finagle your finances to get something, especially when you don't know exactly what that something is.<br>
Those who live on small incomes do have a crack at financial aid, but it is no way guaranteed. There are great risks and sacrifices that come with taking jobs of low income and raising a family on it. If someone can do this, good for them. More credit to them, in my opinon. My hat goes off to him, and I wish his kids the best in getting their college needs met.</p>
<p>This might be OT but i have heard of some students, particularly transfer students declaring themselves emancipated minors so their parent's income doesn't show up on Fafsa and other aid programs. Is this possible?</p>
<p>No, it is not possible. The government has strict rules to prevent this from happening. A student <em>can</em> get a financial aid administrator to declare him independent in certain situations ... but this generally requires documentation to back up the financail aid administrator's decision. This kind of professional judgment would only be used in cases where the student had a really bad home home situation (like a violent one) that could be backed up with written documentation from a professional who is familiar with the student's situation.</p>
<p>The student father is an alumni of Columbia and he clearly state
"The thing is that my parents own a business so, on paper, we have very little income. I am not sure exactly how it works, but supposedly to the government and anyone else who checks, we are more or less dirt poor.
".
He is hoping to get full ride at Columbia.</p>
<p>There are a lot of advantages to having your own business. That is the way it is set up - many deductions, you can put your kids on the payroll, etc. I don't think it is fraudulent, if they are following the law, they are using the system as it is designed.</p>
<p>Small business owners can actually record little to no income on paper. Certain LEGAL deductions, such as depreciation which doesn't actually decrease the cash a business receives, can drastically reduce the taxable income reported on the tax return. I have seen MANY tax returns where depreciations has so drastically cut the profit that the self-employment income reported on the 1040 return is a negative....despite the decent amount of revenue that was actually generated. It isn't illegal and it isn't fraudulent.</p>
<p>And you can chalk me up as anothe deadbeat member of society...since I choose to work at a small, private LAC instead of a larger public institution that would pay me at least twice as much as I currently make. Or, for that matter..since I work in FA instead of as a Professional Tax Preparer or CPA which would provide me a larger net income. Shame, shame on me :(</p>
<p>And then some small businesses actually do have years when they generate little to no income...just ask most sole-proprietor architects in the northeast these days...</p>