<p>"To date, Beloit officials have promised not to cut the aid that supports nearly 90% of students through grants, student loans or work-study. Quietly, however, the school has moved from a need-blind admissions approach to a less inclusive one that enrollment director Nancy Benedict calls "need sensitive," which probably means granting admission to fewer students who need large aid packages." Colleges</a> Learn to Navigate the Credit Crunch - TIME<br>
Do CCers know of other schools who are thinking of doing the same?</p>
<p>Csleslie, There are more schools who are doing this than will admit to the practice. As a rule, if a school does not out and out say they are need blind, they may not be, if they are a selective, private school. </p>
<p>It's tricky, because most schools are need blind. They just don't guarantee meeting need and gap. The schools that make an attempt to meet need are the ones that have to be need sensitive as their budget cannot meet totally need blind admissions.</p>
<p>"because most schools are need blind."
Whoa! Didn't you mean to say most schools are NOT need blind? Because the only schools that can afford to be need blind are those with large endowments, which does not describe most of the 2500- odd college in the US.</p>
<p>No, Menloparkmom, most schools are needblind. Most of the 2500 odd colleges in the US could give a hang what your financial needs are. Most state schools, tech school, non selective school are need blind. They want your app and will then try to work with you for some funds and ways to pay when accepted. Most of our local schools are NOT need blind. But they do not have the funds to help most kids through school. Go through your college guides and it is easier to pick out the schools that admit to being need blind. Very few of them.</p>
<p>Agree with CPT. Most schools do not even look at your need when they look at admissions. Certainly the majority of State schools don't consider how much need you may have in the admissions process. My daughter had her acceptances long before it was even possible to submit FAFSA.</p>
<p>"most schools are needblind. Most of the 2500 odd colleges in the US could give a hang what your financial needs are. Most state schools, tech school, non selective school are need blind"
""Go through your college guides and it is easier to pick out the schools that admit to being need blind. Very few of them."
HUH? You just contradicted yourself.</p>
<p>Sorry, I meant need aware. Most schools are need blind. They do not bother to see who needs what when they go through the admissions apps. They also accept most applicants knowing that those who cannot scrape up the funds may end up not attending. There are only a few schools that admit to being need sensitive. Try finding a list of them. Not easy.</p>
<p>I undertand the premise of this thread; there are need-blind schools and they are supposed to maintain that mantra during the admissions process. But, it has always bothered me that colleges needed to know the profession/employment of parents on the students apps. Why? Yes, I have had posters say that admissions does not use this info for financial reasons, but more for what ops did the student have available while gaining education. However, it has and continues to bother me that they need this info and it might be particularly telling in today's economic times. I still maintain that admissions does not need to know if my student's parents have a college education, where they are employed/current profession. Need blind should be just as the phrase indicates and the apps should be reviewed based on the student's info-not parents info.
Just my two cents! PS-I have noticed on some acceptances threads for schools that students are listing stats to include that no FA was needed as well. Colleges must be taking a harder look at students apps these days no matter how large the endowments!</p>
<p>Notre, I agree with you that colleges ask a lot of information that flies in the face of being need blind... but for whatever it's worth, the information isn't necessarily used for pernicious purposes (unless you believe that all holistic admissions is by definition pernicious). Two applicants to Harvard-- Family #1 parents are pastor and psychiatric social worker; gross income $70K. Family #2 has HVAC repairperson and cashier at Walmart; gross income $70K. Both families have aprox. same assets and therefore, need.</p>
<p>Unless you know both families, and there were extenuating circumstances, most people would assume that family #1 has two parents with graduate degrees, and family #2 may have two parents with no college degrees. It would be hard not to also assume that at least some of the trappings of a higher SES would go along with family #1, whether or not that is the case.... and so the income levels are only weakly correlated to perceived advantages in the home, depsite the fact that at the end of the day, both kids would need the same aid to attend Harvard.</p>
<p>However, I feel that's Harvard's problem. My own state has no trouble giving merit aid to kids who can already afford to attend our state U, and giving no assistance to kids who won't be attending without significant aid, so that seems to be a bigger bugaboo than what the privates do!!!</p>
<p>I've been wondering what colleges would do given endowment losses. Something needs to give. Do you cut back services to those already enrolled or take fewer with financial need? Quite the dilemma.</p>
<p>I'm wondering if those need-blind rules are a-changing! When our own student was applying in '05-I argued with many posters about this need-blind issue and the need for so much parental info on many college apps. And, yes, contrary to what many posters have indicated, I think admissions could deduct income level based on parent info. (That is unless that parent is unemployed!) My feeling is (was) that no college in the world could take a class full of kids that needed fin aid. There has to be some full pays-even in a good economy! Now that endowments are in a nose dive (as well as many 529 plans!), I do wonder if a full paying student is going to look attractive to some schools. No, I am not advocating dismissing the whole need-blind admissions process--but something has got to give and you can't tell me that colleges are going to turn down full pays with the right credentials, scores, grades, etc. !</p>
<p>As mini often points out, there are dozens of proxies for family income on most applications. Starting with zip codes, secondary school, ECs, jobs . . . Heck, starting with standardized test score, which tend to track family income. Even at a need-blind college, one wouldn't have to toggle too many switches to lower the financial aid bill. Let's get some squash players and sailors in here! Wow! That summer program building a hospital in Africa is impressive! As is the Harvard Institute on Basket-Weaving! Ooooh, I bet you learn a lot more working on marketing for Mom's law firm than you do behind the register at 7-11! And, gosh, isn't Exeter's curriculum impressive?</p>
<p>In the best of circumstances, "need-blind" probably means "need-peeking" whenever it has to. And from the standpoint of an applicant with need, I would much rather feel certain that if I was admitted I would receive a fair aid offer than have to go through a whole new substantive application process with the financial aid office. I don't think any reputable institution is going to abandon economic diversity as a value altogether, they may just decide to have a little less of it.</p>
<p>Notre- EA results are trickling in from my community and indeed, colleges are deferring (not turning down, but the stats aren't looking good) quite a few full pays who at least on paper, have the scores, grades, cello-playing tennis champs chops. (sorry, long day and I needed some giggles.) One would think that the orthopedic surgeon and ligitation partners kids would be having open season right now.... but at least based on my very limited sample.... colleges are not opening the floodgates to the full pays... at least not until they see the whole applicant pool this winter.</p>
<p>I think parents who hoped or prayed that having the dough would slide Jonny and Jenny right into "You wanna be here U" are finding out that this is still a brutally competitive year. And since most of the EA applicant numbers appear to be up at most schools- why should the colleges bend the stats to admit a richer but less qualified student body?</p>
<p>One would hope that adcoms realize that it will take a while for the new reality to sort itself out. Parents with losses in retirement funds, paper losses in the value of their primary residence, etc. aren't neccessarily going to qualify for aid- even if the parents are feeling poor vs. a year ago. And since the payout to financial aid from endowments was never 100% of the investment returns, it will also take a while for the colleges to figure out the impact on financial aid from the hits their endowments are taking.</p>
<p>Yes, colleges can use lots of data as proxies for income. But there are school teachers and firefighters and dental hygenists living in Winnetka and Scarsdale and Greenwich.... and those kids have a right to apply to college also without being penalized by their zipcodes.</p>
<p>I sure hope and pray the economy turns around soon--it has hit a lot of people hard and Blossom, I think you are right in that colleges are maybe taking a wait-and-see approach. They have been hit; the repercussions of this downturn may still not be felt for a while though. Let's hope they are paying attention and planning ahead, though!</p>
<p>Cornell's contract schools accepted mostly out-staters (at least on CC) and very few in-staters for ED (out-staters pay a lot more than in-staters for contract schools). I am not a believer of need blind because it just appears all of those need blind schools have approximately same percentage of students on scholarships year after year. When it comes to admitting waitlist kids, I think you have a better chance if you could pay full fare.</p>
<p>Not that many schools are need blind, most of them are need aware. Two years ago, Tufts said they were very close in being need blind, they thought in a few years they could be need blind and it would help with recruitment.</p>
<p>The system is stacked in favor of those who can afford to pay fully without the adcoms having to make the adjustments. One constant in education has been the direct relationship between family income and academic achievement. Yes, there are exceptions, many exceptions, but for the most part it remains solid. I have heard that if some differentiation in background is not made, there would be even more full pays admitted, and not because they are cherry picked. Understand that those schools that are need blind AND meet full need or close to it are few and tend to be the more selective and sought after schools. </p>
<p>Most admissions folks do not make a lot of money. Perhaps the director of admissions makes a salary where his/her kids will not qualify for college financial aid, but many of the employees are not high payed. They are not going to feel a whole lot of affinity for silver spoon kids. There is a natural sympathy for the underdog in these situations. Schools that are need blind or close to it, do not necessarily just assume that those applying for financial aid are necessarily going to get it,nor can they necessarily tell how much aid the student is going to need. Financial Aid office does that determination, and unless they work together or are the same office, the admissions decisions are not based on need. I am familiar with how one need aware school works, and admissions there is NOT made based on need. Kids are categorized as to how desirable they are, and then financial aid sorts through who gets the money, who doesn't and who gets denied admissions. Admissions accepts without that regard.</p>
<p>The current economic situation is going to strew the stats, I'm sure. A school that accepts 1000 kids, knowing that 100 will not get past financial aid, may find itself in the situation that the funds run out with 300 kids that cannot be funded which leaves it with a shortfall of students. That would mean that the full pays that were rejected or waitlisted would have to be examined again to make up the difference. </p>
<p>I don't know how schools are going to be able to handle those families who no longer have the assets to pay for college that they counted on. This includes those whose credit has been decreased so that they cannot borrow for college. HELOCs are being pulled, borrowing on margin is now a problem, loans are not easy to get.</p>