<p>But I AM obsessive, do not colleges want to know the real you…? XD
Yes, admissions does probe for weaknesses, but there’s no reason to highlight them. In my opinion you’ve gone past the tipping point. Taking the tests again is likely to do more harm than good. </p>
<p>How about Amherst/Swarthmore/etc?
It depends on your objectives. Amherst and Swarthmore are EXCELLENT colleges, but are not known as serious math/physics destinations the way Williams is.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure what you mean by speed over quality.</p>
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<p>[Maxwell’s</a> equations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell’s_equations]Maxwell’s”>Maxwell's equations - Wikipedia)</p>
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<p>It is not generally a good idea to take a lot of student loan debt. The definition of “a lot” depends on whom you ask, but it is commonly said that the maximum reasonable amount of student loans is the limit of government subsidized student loans (i.e. don’t take private student loans). Some people make adjustments based on job and career prospects of your major, though such adjustments are not going to be huge (i.e. it is not generally a good idea to take $100,000 in student loan debt). Students planning on (expensive) medical or law school are often advised to do what they can to minimize student loan debt in order to not drag it along through medical or law school.</p>
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<p>PhD study in STEM subjects is often funded by fellowships, research assistantships, or teaching assistantships.</p>
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<p>Note, however, that the top math majors often want to take graduate level math courses as undergraduates. Check course catalogs to see if each school has the desired courses.</p>
<p>Let me correct some of my earlier mistakes:</p>
<p>1) It does appear that most students like yourself actually do better on the Writing component of the SAT1. The only part that doesnt have machine grading would be the essay part of the W test. So I think the graders have lightened up a bit when they read the essays, and grade fairly liberally which -> generally higher scores on W as compared to the CR, along with many, maybe most, who would probably believe the CR is tougher.</p>
<p>2) The conversion tables for converting from one to the other wrt SAT & ACTs are probably done by percentiles: 99th percentile of scores = 35, ACT and 1560-1590, SAT, etc. Theres not a lot of play between a really top ACT score and a moderate one, so the conversion of one ACT score will have a corresponding range to the SAT.</p>
<p>3) You can undoubtedly send both SATs and ACTs to each c and u to which you are applying. If there were a marked difference between your two top scores, youd undoubtedly send the one that you scored best. There isnt a lot of difference between your two scores, but again, it appears your SATI is your best foot forward. I think the overlap of SAT/ACT %s for Cal is probably by those who did send in both because I dont think compelling information to add to or change your application includes taking the tests after you sent in your app. I could be wrong again, so ask your counselor. </p>
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<p>I dont think so, but ask your counselor. You have to be mindful of the turnaround of obtaining your scores by all parties. Will the colleges be significantly into reading the apps? Probably so…</p>
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<p>The number associated to each student has large gaps, so those not listed probably dont have four-year college choices. </p>
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<p>There are some private schools that have some spreadsheet forms of databases that have somethinng fairly similar, but not nearly as comprehensive. And private-school admissions is entirely different to each c and u.</p>
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<p>You can undoubtedly take SATIIs along with only the ACT. And for reporting, some students undoubtedly report ACT along with SATII scores.</p>
<p>@momrath
I suppose, I would probably do worse anyway. (I am likely a bit out of practice, my last SAT was March.)
How hard is it to get into these top Liberal Arts colleges compared to Ivies?</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus
Taking classes at community college with teachers that are not as amazing as those at university.
I may put off E+M for college then, depending on if I can work around it or not.
Only public student loans, then, good to know.
What courses should I look for, besides the aforementioned math ones? </p>
<p>@drax12
<p>“How hard is it to get into these top Liberal Arts colleges compared to Ivies?”
I’d say Amherst/Swarthmore/Pomona/Williams are about the same in selectivity as Brown/Dartmouth. </p>
<p>Midwest schools like Grinnell and Carlton – which are their equals academically – are one notch down in selectivity.</p>
<p>Admissions criteria at LACs are somewhat different from large/medium universities, though. They put a lot of weight on personality and multifaceted background and interest (as well as grades, scores, etc.) Because the community size is small they look for students who will fit in and can contribute either talent or life experience. Demonstrated interest as in visits or “Why College X” essay questions count for a lot.</p>
<p>@momrath
I suppose since they are slightly lower on my list then Brown and such, I could cut them if I have to shorten it more. </p>
<p>Does the same apply for schools like Chicago? Ivyish but less selective?</p>
<p>Would my one notable EC be the sort of thing they might look for?</p>
<p>Okay, I’m going to throw something out that may raise a few eybrows:</p>
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<p>Why do you feel compelled to narrow your list further? You have stated you are uncertain about what amount you can/cannot afford and what your EFC is. I know there are many on CC who have very strong opinions about limiting the number of schools you apply to; however, if finances are part of the equation, I believe you should cast a wide net and weigh your options after the results are revealed. Assuming you can afford the application fees, keep your list as is.</p>
<p>@jc40</p>
<p>My parents informed me that they would only let me apply to 5 to 7 colleges and that I had to shorten my list. However, since my AP scores came out, I convinced them to “reward” me by letting me apply to more colleges, apparently 10. My family will not inform me about any financial data and have yet to begin looking at financial aide. Currently, I am encouraging them to do so, and they should hopefully be helping me with it at least by the end of this week. </p>
<p>In my opinions, the cheapness of application fees makes up for the massive costs of college, the other reason keeping me from applying to so many is the quality lost in each application as the amount of them increases.</p>
<p>Like I said before, the number of applications that you need to submit is an OUTPUT of my algorithm, not an INPUT. </p>
<p>If you have a limit on the number of applications that you can file, for what reason I don’t know, then raise the threshold for the probability of attending until you get the right number. </p>
<p>I think that a better use of your time is to carefully research each school so that your preferences do not align with selectivity - why would they? </p>
<p>Visit what you can visit, like maybe visit Pomona as a candidate LAC (even though it wasn’t on your list), and visit some medium and large schools nearby to give you a feel for what your life will be like. How do you feel about going to college in the middle of nowhere. How about in the middle of a city. Look at the academic offerings at each school. Is there enough offered at the LACs that you would want to take senior year or would you top out. How often are classes offered - some schools have some courses offered every other year. How would you feel if you got locked out of classes that you wanted to take. This is sometimes problem at large publics, and I’ve read about this especially in California. </p>
<p>Surely you can see that either a large public or a small LAC is better matched to your learning style, needs and wants. Then adjust your preferences. This will help you eliminate some schools, even though they may be really great. </p>
<p>I think your biggest problem is that you haven’t given enough thought to imagining yourself at each school and how you would like it.</p>
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I agree with this 100%. </p>
<p>I’d want to keep Chicago on your list just because it’s EA and awesome, but I think 15 is a reasonable number to apply to if you want schools of that caliber. 5 - 7 is fine if you’re not going for the “lottery schools”, but since your stats are a match for those schools, I think it makes sense to apply to those that could actually work for you.</p>
<p>@ClassicRockerDad
The main problem I have right now is that all of the particularly good or bad things with each college cancel out such that none stand far apart from the rest. Of the hundreds of other colleges I have researched, all with glaringly bad variables have been eliminated, and all without massively good ones were cut shortly afterwords. I have little preference between my remaining colleges and it just so happens that selectivity and prestige go hand in hand. </p>
<p>However, I like the idea of checking out both a sample small and large college. Los Angels is within my region, so UCLA and Cal Tech are both good options, and I can add a small Liberal Arts College too. I am also vacationing in New Jersey this Summer, so I have an opportunity to check out Princeton as a sample for colleges on the east coast. The minor issue with thsi is that my parents care very little for visiting colleges, to the point where it is argued as a waste of time. I will probably be able to convince them otherwise though. </p>
<p>As for visiting colleges, what do you do there? I already have all of the data about each college online, so is it only so you can get the “aura” or “feel” of the type of college? It seems awfully subjective, but is that the point?</p>
<p>Currently, I have imagined myself at each of my schools and would quite content at all of them (though technically the safeties less so). The only reason not to go to CMU, for example, is that it would have been even nicer to go to CIT. In the end, I do not want to completely set my mind on any one college as I have a large chance of not making it in. My goal is applying to enough amazing top colleges such that I get into at least one of them. Then I can be picky about them by visiting to determine which to go to. </p>
<p>@GeekMom63
Chicago is clinging onto my list just as well as all of my other colleges; would you recommend I do EA with Cal Tech (and maybe MIT)?</p>
<p>The new question: What is the maximum number of colleges I should apply to, without decreasing the quality of my applications? I have a very school year and remainder of summer, so I do not have very much time. How much time is one expected to put into each application?</p>
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<p>Getting a realistic idea of affordability is essential in determining which schools are worth applying to. Remember that your safety schools need to be solidly affordable as well as schools that you know that you will be admitted to. You do not want to be the student who gets admitted to some schools but cannot afford to attend any of them. In that case, it would be off to community college – not a bad choice for many students, but may be unfulfilling if you are advanced in math and cannot take junior and senior level math courses as a freshman or sophomore as you could at a four year school.</p>
<p>Visits during the summer might not be as representative as visits during the regular academic year. But you’ll be in school during most of that time.</p>
<p>Something you might want to do if you visit is sit in on a class (easy to do in a large lecture at a big university, perhaps a bit more awkward in a small class).</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus
How exactly do colleges vary in financial aide?</p>
<p>I would only be able to do something like that my missing a day of school or something. Or I could go on a Friday night. Is it really worth it? And besides the impression, what else is there to gain from it?</p>
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<p>It basically is the point. You are human and are entitled to experience emotion. If you are happy, you are more likely to do well. You will be happy if you like your future classmates and the environment at the college. It would benefit you to investigate this. </p>
<p>For summer college visits:
<p>The information session and tour are really nice because often questions are asked and answered that you didn’t even know that you had, and it helps you get a sense of what’s really important to you. You might think, “yeah I could do all that online”, but I’ve found that you definitely get a feel for the school from the information sessions and tours. I really didn’t get a sense of just how vast the overwhelming resources were at a top ivy until going on the tour. One of the liberal arts schools on your list (Swarthmore) was so far out there in-your-face liberal that I asked the tour guide who there was to argue with? She answered that there were different degrees of liberal. I chuckled. Other schools seemed more balanced. </p>
<p>For visits during the school year (much better), my D1 found it useful to attend a math class and a humanities class at each school. That really helped her visualize what it would be like to attend classes there. At one top ivy she went to a humanities class and many people in the class were on facebook or texting during class. At $55K per year, I couldn’t believe it! At another top, more math/science oriented school, the same class only had 4 people in it and she felt so bad for the professor that she sent him an email telling him that she really enjoyed the class and thanking him for allowing her to attend it. At the school she ended up attending, the same subject was taught in a small class of about 20 and everyone was really engaged. An 80 minute class felt like 20 minutes. </p>
<p>Once she was admitted, she also did an overnight at each of the “finalist” colleges where she was able to talk to many students in detail and really help her make her final decision. She was also able to talk to a professor and found that really insightful. A professor at a university is much more likely to take the time to talk to an admitted student than a prospective student. </p>
<p>Rankings are useful to find schools where you will find like minded peers, but after a certain point, the schools have individual characters. You need to find what it is about each one that appeals to you.</p>
<p>@ClassicRockerDad
Pssh, emotion. >.> I am not really too sure what I am looking for and I guess I will just hope that I will know when I see it. </p>
<p>What exactly are “liberal” or “conservative” colleges? (Besides politics.) </p>
<p>I think that I will reserve going during the school year for after I find out which ones I get into. For now (summer) I will try to get to at least one large and small college. It seems more like I will be looking for things I dislike rather than like, which should not be too hard. In regards to my application list, when I visit, say, a small college, and realize that I dislike small colleges, do I assume that all other small colleges have the same problems, whatsoever they may be, and remove all small colleges from my list? (Woah, that was a weird sentence.)</p>
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<p>Need is typically defined as cost of attendance (COA) minus expected family contribution (EFC).</p>
<p>Some schools meet need with loans.</p>
<p>Some schools meet need without loans.</p>
<p>Some schools do not meet full need and may require the student to find outside loans.</p>
<p>Some schools’ definition of EFC and need differs from the usual (may be more or less favorable).</p>
<p>Policies may differ for in versus out of state students at public schools.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus
What exactly is EFC and how is it calculated?
In what sort of situations i private cheaper than public?</p>
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<p>I meant politics. I think students who have grown up with any kind of cultural or political bias will learn a lot more being around intelligent people who have a diversity of opinions than from being around people who march lock step to a politically correct drum. At Swarthmore, they had all of these T-shirts on display for a very lefty cause right in front of the admissions office - I can’t seem to remember the particular cause. I thought it was pretty amusing, and though I’m kind of liberal myself, it made me wonder how welcome someone with a more conservative upbringing might feel and whether such people would feel welcome to express or debate their views without feeling ostracized. </p>
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<p>At that point, when you can identify things you dislike, perhaps go on College Confidential to the college specific groups and ask if the particular tribute that you didn’t like existed at those places too.</p>