Need guidance on choosing college - engineering

College Search & Selection
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I have lurked on CC for the past year and found many discussions extremely helpful. I just read the posting “100k in loans for Northeastern University Computer Science degree???” and it motivated me to posted for advice. This is my first time posting so please excuse my novice write up. My oldest S17 applied to a wide range of engineering programs across the country (EECE). His stats are high: ACT 35, UW GPA 3.96, W GPA 5.6, NMF, a few good EC’s with leadership roles, good recs, 4 AP’s with 5s to date, 3 more AP’s this year, etc. I am fully aware he is not overly special, bc there are thousands of tippy top kids.

Our EFC is high, so we are full pay unfortunately. Fortunately, he was offered merit from a few private colleges (from $20k to $27) and from some state colleges ($10k to $12), except our flagship, UIUC. He applied EA to many and applied RD to a handful. His top EA college options to date are: UIUC, Purdue, Northeastern, Case Western, USC, and Miami U in OH. He got into UT-Austin, but it’s unlikely he’ll get any merit bc we’re OOS so it’s not really in the running. For RD schools, he’s waiting to hear from Rice, Harvey Mudd, MIT, and Northwestern. He was deferred from MIT, but the likelihood of receiving an acceptance is a super long shot. To his surprise, he also got deferred from Michigan. We have some $ in a 529, but we want to stretch it as much as possible bc we have 2 younger children (D19, S22). S17 recently was awarded a private scholarship of $30k over 4 yrs. He’s applying to a couple of more, but not taking it for granted that he’ll be awarded. At the end of all this, I suspect the EA colleges that offered merit and UIUC will be the top contenders. As for the RD schools, I suspect merit will be small, if any, if he’s accepted. Luckily, S17 does not have a #1 choice; he’s also fully aware that full pay is not possible at private schools.

The following are my assessment of the schools, but I would love some guidance on the pros and cons to consider:

UIUC - very competitive, highly regarded engineering program, has a state of the art engineering campus. S17 was offered James Scholars, but it does include merit money, but he can register for classes before others. It is very large school where minimal guidance will be given, 4 year tuition cost is locked in, many opportunities available but he has to seek them out, and it’s in middle of the state which he finds limiting.

Case - good program, more guidance since it’s a smaller program, more hands-on, nice campus, but heard school spirit and social life are bit lack luster and tuition increases annually. Offered annual $27k in merit. Also applied for the First Robotics scholarship, but won’t know until after 4/1. I think only 2 scholarships are offered so I suspect, it’s very competitive.

NEU - good program, S17 feels indifferent about the Co Op. Ok with the 4yr program, but not love the idea of not having any summer breaks to earn extra money and just some downtime. S17 initially not interested in the 5 yr bc it sounded really long. He loves Boston and the urban campus even though it is small. Loves that hockey is the school’s #1 sport. Offered only $20k annually in merit so it’s the most expensive. He can pick NEU as NMF school of choice, but is not guaranteed to receive the maximum of $30k as listed on their website. I was told if he selects NEU early, he may get $30k, but he’ll be notified after he chooses the school. He will apply for the First Robotics scholarship for full tuition, but won’t know the outcome until 5/1.

USC - Again, good program, high energy student body and school spirit, larger than NEU and Case, but not as big as UIUC. It’s the first campus where he couldn’t stop smiling nonstop. It’s a very expensive school even with 1/2 tuition merit if he’s awarded the Presidential scholarship. He’s hoping for additional merit, but it’ll be ultra competitive. He also applied for the First Robotics scholarship, but I’m not sure if he’ll qualify for it if he gets the Presidential. If somehow he blows the interview for Presidential, he can then pick USC as his first choice for NMF and could qualify for 1/2 tuition merit.

Miami U - the only school to offer full tuition so it’s in the running even though it’s not the most competitive engineering program and it’s geography is limiting (I heard students either love it or hate it). It’s also the only school we have not visited; I heard the campus is beautiful but it has a big party atmosphere. Many students from our local HSs attend Miami so there will be many (too many?) familiar faces. Not crazy about the quarter system and the long January break. If S17 finishes at the top of the class, will he get similar job opportunities from top employers?

Given S17 is our first, the process and decision making is overwhelming even though we are trying to stay grounded and neutral as much as possible. A good fit is important so he’ll thrive. He does need to be challenged academically to be truly motivated, but he also wants to build a strong social life where he’ll find his best friends and maybe even a girl friend! He wants to have time for intramural sports and club activities. Thanks for reading this super long write-up and I look forward to your advice and insights.

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Have you asked NEU about the 30K NMS? I think they only reduce that if you get FA from NEU - if you are merit only - he should get the entire thing…call them and ask specifically (say you are Full Pay and definitely NMS finalist - will he get the 30K).

Does your son have AP courses to bring with him to college?

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Have you determined your budget of what you can contribute for his school costs, while leaving a reasonable amount to contribute for any following kids’ college costs and your own retirement?

If so, how do the net prices after scholarships compare to that budget?

If he could potentially change majors, he should also consider how difficult it can be to do so at each school. UIUC has many majors which are “full”, so that can mean a high GPA or competitive admission to get into them if not directly admitted as a frosh.

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“where minimal guidance will be given”

Out of curiosity what do you mean by this? From a current CS student at UIUC, every ECE major I know has great things to say about Kudeki and the other ECE advisers.

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Based upon the way you describe your search, it sounds like you have some reasonable options so far. All the schools you list are good schools, although I’d consider the top choices to be UIUC and Case.

Regarding UIUC, I’m not sure what you mean by “it’s in middle of the state”. Are you referring to the “middle of nowhere”/“middle of the cornfields” reputation it has? Because I think that’s exaggerated – no, it’s not a big city, but there’s really plenty to do on campus/around town (my son is a student there).

Regarding the schools you’re waiting on RD, I think they’re all need-based aid only (perhaps not Northwestern), so if he gets into any of them they’ll likely end up significantly more expensive. You’ll have to decide whether that’s feasible or not. The schools he’s already in are not much lower quality than them, if at all.

Otherwise, things might depend on your son’s and your preferences, and how the final costs work out (although it sounds like a slight different won’t matter so much, and all those schools – other than Miami, clearly the weakest choice – will cost a similar amount). Will UIUC’s large size and somewhat hands-off nature be a problem? Likewise for Case’s somewhat lackluster school spirit? You’ll have to decide what’s most significant.

If you can, try to visit again, possibly an overnight, before a final decision has to be made.

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suzyQ7 - I called NEU and was told that NMF are eligible up to $30,000 merit-based award, but the final amount is determined by NMC. Therefore, S17 may be awarded the full amount, or not and his total merit $ will be the same as the initial award of $20k. NEU also confirmed that the FIRST Robotics scholarship recipients will not be considered until the student has accepted.

S17 has scored 5 on AP Econ Macro/Micro, AP US History, and AP Comp Sci. He plans to take the exam for AP Calc BC, AP Psychic C, and AP Psych in May.

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literallymarx - Thank you for sharing that your son and others in EECE are receiving great guidance from advisers. I am a little concerned that he’ll get lost in the crowd. We were really blown away with CoE campus and the student tour guides at various major specifics appear to really love what they are learning. Our gut instinct indicates that UIUC is the best reputable school for his interest. The CoE is also the largest in student population so I’m a little concern how he’ll manage the large classes. He’s independent, a self-starter and mature, but we know he’ll go through a learning curve on adjusting to a larger population (his senior class is 400) and adjusting to peers who are all very motivated and academically high achievers. His current peers are too, but the top 10% is only about 40 students.

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csdad2 - Yes, the location of the school is not too exciting for S17, bc he thinks an urban setting will offer more options. We are also aware how prevalent the Greek system is at UIUC and how time consuming rushing in the first semester is and that could impact his classes/grades. He’s concerned that he’ll not have a social life if he doesn’t rush. Unfortunately his HS peers does not think too highly of UIUC, most prefer OOS and highly selective private schools. We know that for S17’s major and interest, UIUC is an excellent school.

S17 scheduled admitted student visits at UIUC and Case (overnight) in April. He’ll do an overnight at USC for the Explore event. Hopefully he’ll have a better idea then. We also agree that the RD schools’ financial package will be very limited if any. Unless a miracle occurs, I don’t think they are in the running.

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It’s true that UIUC has a large Greek system, and is big on sports – but one advantage of it being such a big school is that there are still very large numbers of people not into these things. AFAIK, my son has not done a single thing with Greek life, nor attended a single sporting event, and has been perfectly happy. His dorm situation was a LLC-type situation, and that worked out very well.

I also would not worry too much about some of your son’s HS peers looking down on UIUC – when you consider that it is a top 5/10 engineering school, at probably the most reasonable cost of all the choices – that should be enough right there.

But as already stated, it sounds like he’ll have a few similar cost, similar quality schools to consider, so he can consider these kinds of things.

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@cag60093 I would definitely call NMS corporation right away and get a final answer then. You are a finalist - there is nothing left NMS would need to wait for to determine how much you’d get. They should be able to give you a definitive answer right away on if you will get the 30K. I can’t see why you would not get the 30k and it would make zero sense for them to require you to select the school before knowing. Tell them you need an answer to determine where you child is attending. The people there are very nice- but I would not take no for an answer - they need to give you a definitive amount. Tell them what NEU said (which I find odd - never did I hear that NMS controlled the dollars that the SCHOOL is granting).

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If money is a concern then I’d lean towards the lowest cost program that is ABET acredited. Engineering is a flatter world than many outside it know. With ABET acreditation you take the same classes no matter where you go. There are elites like MIT and Caltech, but most schools fall into a broad middle group and employers view the grads as essentially equivalent. Engineering is not Wall Street where a pedigree works wonders. New hires from anywhere get the same starting salary. Hiring at many companies is dependent on convenience (eg. within a few hours drive from the employer).

To be honest more important than the name on the diploma is what the kid has done in college. Taking part in engineering projects in college where teams build something is a plus. Internships are a key; usually an auto job offer from the employer if the kid does ok since they know that kid better than someone off the street they interviewed for a few hours.

I don’t want to read too much into this. However you should know that nationally more than half of those entering college as engineers drop out of the major. Your son is unlikely to have a “strong social life.” Since it is difficult to get accepted as an engineer it is seldom because they couldn’t do the work if they wanted IMHO. My belief is many never were that committed to being engineers in the first place and don’t find all the work worth it. If he hasn’t talked with engineers you know about their career and thought about whether it is what he wants I think that puts him at higher risk. He should understand that to get good grades he will be working 6-10 hours per week outside of class in every math & science class. Sit down with him and sketch out a pretend schedule with 7 days broken up into hourly boxes for each day and fill it in. On a quarter system 4 classes 3x a week, a discussion section for each class, probably a 4-hour lab for at least 1 class, plus the work I just mentioned. On a semester system add another class. No joking; see http://catalog.illinois.edu/undergraduate/engineer/departments/electrical-computer-engin/electrical-engineering-major/ towards the bottom where they have “Suggested Sequence.” Other schools will be the same. That is his life for 4 years. Is he up for it? Kids see their friends in other majors with a lot more free time and social life, they pack it in.

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ucbalumnus - We will contribute up to $20k annually for S17 and he’ll take out an Unsubsisized Loan of $5500 annually. We think he should be responsible for part of his education. His summer job will go towards his spending $ while he’s at school. Net prices after scholarships for each school annually: UIUC $23k; Case $24k; NEU $30k, USC $30k (if awarded the Presidential). If he is lucky enough to be awarded a couple of more smaller local scholarships, we may contribute a little less than $20k to stretch out the 529 $ in the event of unknowns for younger children’s education. D19 and S22 both have 529 too, but not enough to cover all 4 years for them just yet. We’re definitely on track for our retirement accts; contributing regularly to 401k.

S17 has been involved in the Robotics Club the last 3 years; he really enjoyed it and feels confident that he wants to major in EECE. He also attended a summer program at UIUC after his freshmen year to explore all the engineering majors; he liked EECE best then too. I am aware though that many engineering students change their majors after a year or two in the program. At UIUC, he was admitted into the Computer Engineering major; changing into a different engineering major like CS or BioE will be nearly impossible I understand. He also has to keep a minimum of 3.5 GPA to keep the James Scholar status. Choosing a major outside of CoE will not be difficult. At the other universities, it will be easier to change his major if he decides engineering is not what he expected.

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Honestly, I don’t think you could go wrong with any of these in the end. All of these seem to have some discounted price and solid programs. I think finding the balance between fit and price will likely be the key here. Given how close the prices are and the waiting on other scholarships, I would focus on fit and try to visit the schools again as others have suggested.

I do want to add that being an engineer and being social are not mutually exclusive at all. I know plenty who maintain great grades and accomplishments while also having very fulfilling social lives. It can be tough, but that just isn’t the way all engineering experiences are. Not every engineering class needs 6-10 hours a week outside of class. For example, while not in engineering, I spent about 3-4 hours a week on most of my higher level math classes and got nothing below a B flat. Just wanted to add that.

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Looks like NEU and USC would require him to work more, while UIUC and CWRU would not need additional work earnings from him.

What would UIUC cost if he got < 3.5 GPA? 3.5 GPA is much harder to keep in college than in high school. Does CWRU have GPA requirements to renew the scholarships?

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My S is at Case and all that is required to keep his scholarship is to be in good standing. He is an EECS major and is maintaining a good gpa and taking more than the standard course load. Engineering students have a lot of work outside classes but he manages a good social life.

If you or he wants to work during the school year there are plenty part time jobs. My S works at thinkbox and that is an ideal place for an engineering student.
Have him arrange a tour of thinkbox when he visits. If you want pm me and I can see if my S would have time to give him a tour but I think he could probably just ask when he visits. It is a cool maker space.

I don’t know much about the robotics club but they seem to be active and also robotics research that maybe he could ask to be part of. A few professors have some different research projects based on robotics.

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Forgot to add that as a junior in EECS there are alumni scholarships he can be nominated for if his gpa is above a 3.0 or something. My S is interviewing for that at this time so once he knows more I can post a follow up

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No doubt this is true for some students. However the standard advice you will get, and the experience of my friends seemed to bear it out, is that 3-4 hours a week per class was not sufficient.

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@cag60093 Did your son get a university or COE level scholarship to bring the price of UIUC down?

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MerryLee - S17 is full pay at UIUC as well as at every other school. He did not receive any merit $ from CoE from UIUC, but was awarded a private scholarship of $7500 annually that could be used at any school.

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suzyQ7 - I asked NMC to clarify NEU’s response that NMF’s determines merit $. NMC staff said that it is school that determines if they offer merit to NMF. So I called NEU again and I was told the same thing that NMF may be awarded up to $30k, but the final amount is not determined by them and that students won’t know what the amount will be until students accept enrollment at NEU. I explained that until we know what the final merit $ is, we can’t compare in order to make a proper decision. At that point, the NEU staff person said she’ll pass on my request to someone who is more involved with NMF issues and that I should expect a return call in a couple of business days.