Need Guidance on College Options

College Search & Selection
1

Evening,

I’ve been a long time reader here, but this will be my first post. I am a rising senior and am from North Carolina. I’m having a hard time nailing down my application strategy for this fall despite having my list of schools pretty well decided upon. My real dilemma arrives when deciding where, if anywhere, I should apply early decision. I will post all relevant stats and personal info below and the list of schools I am considering. As far as school type goes I really value institutions that are both academically rigorous and socially adventurous. I’m a “preppy” southern male and Greek life or any equivalent such as Princeton’s eating clubs is seen as a plus.

Class Rank: 1/150 (approx)
GPA: 3.96 / 4.8 (unweighted/ weighted)

ACT: 34
SATII

  • World History: 800
  • US History: 800
  • Math II: (Registered for Oct.)

AP Scores
Gov & Politics: 5
Euro: 5
Stat: 3
US History: 5
English Lang: 5

Extracurricular

I won’t go in depth here as this isn’t a “chance me” or anything like that. I have pretty solid ECs on the whole. Varsity golf player, Eagle scout, part time job, NC Governor’s School, AP Scholar w/ Distinction, state debate champ, student government, math club, several hundred hours of varied community service, mission trips, and winner of several state and national awards related to economics and finance.

College List

Dartmouth
Duke
Harvard
UChicago
UPenn
UNC - Chapel Hill
Washington & Lee University
Williams
Yale
Georgetown
University of South Carolina

I am aiming for a economics or finance major depending on the institution, but understand that there is the possibility of this changing down the line. I’ll certainly be applying for financial aid and price is a consideration for my family, but we are not opposed to taking out loans if it meant getting me through Wharton. Most of our expected family contributions for the schools listed above comes in between $10k and $25k. UPenn being on the high side while Harvard was, unsurprisingly, the least.

The question I pose to the community here is, taking into consideration my desire for both a academically rigorous school that will make lading an IB or consulting job relatively easy (ie. Wharton @ UPenn) and a good party/social scene, should I be looking at early decision to UPenn or to Dartmouth?

I’ve toured both UPenn and Dartmouth and honestly could see myself in both places despite the wildly different environments. My parents are especially hesitant about ED as a whole because they feel that I have a solid chance at HYP. I appreciate their enthusiasm and support, but I am trying to be pragmatic and reasonable. Given my stats would applying ED to Dartmouth be jumping the gun in the name of safety? Am I even a competitive applicant for UPenn? Should I hold off on ED completely to see if I get into HYP or one of my other far reach schools?

Thanks in advance for any guidance. I would really just appreciate to hear some other folks opinions.

2

If Penn is on the high side of the net price estimates, would you really want to do ED there knowing that any other school that admits you is likely to give a lower price? Where does Dartmouth come in on net price estimates? Are the net price estimates in the whole range affordable to you and your parents? If it came to UPenn at $25,000 versus Harvard at $10,000, which would you choose?

3

Note that fraternity/sorority life varies considerably from none at Williams to a majority of eligible students at Dartmouth and W&L.

4

@ucbalumnus Thank you for the quick response!

We’re still comfortable with ED at UPenn even with that expected family contribution. My family’s main concern is whether I would be unwisely limiting my options with ED. Just FYI Dartmouth came in at $23,000, Yale at $14,000, and W&L at $45,000. Unless I received the Johnson, attending W&L would be unlikely.

5

The reality is that Penn relies heavily of ED for filling its class. Last year 53% of the class was selected ED, meaning that the acceptance rate for RD is lower than the stats show. EA to HYP is not as much an advantage as ED to Penn or Dartmouth but at least its non-binding. You’re evidently a very competitve candidate. My sense from your writeup is that Dartmouth is definitely not your top choice, while Penn is closer to that spot. Your dilemma occurs often for top candidates and there is no easy answer.

6

Usually, being undecided between more than one school means that you should not apply ED.

According to:

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=67
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=403

Penn considers “level of applicant’s interest”, but Dartmouth does not. Since applying ED is mostly a strong signal of interest in the school, it may be that the ED gain at Penn is more than at Dartmouth. But that does not mean that you should apply to Penn if it is not your clear first choice.

7

Also, entry via ED to Penn certainly doesn’t guarantee Wharton.

8

I’m leaning towards UPenn and if Dartmouth really doesn’t give preference to their ED applicants then there’s no point in applying ED there.

@fogcity @ucbalumnus @wayneandgarth Thanks for the help guys. Penn is a great school and if I were to be lucky enough to be offered admittance I would happily accept without knowing if I got into HYP later on. Wharton, even with ED, is incredibly tough, so worst comes to worst I’ll likely be deferred and I’ll get to keep my options open anyways.

9

Also a key is that, despite your strong stats, most of those schools are real reaches. Are you VERY satisfied with USC as a safety? If you aren’t then you may want to look at others such as Michigan, Emory or others with slightly higher admissions rates and reasonable merit (not that Michigan yet has good merit - but they are trying to improve).

10

@wayneandgarth I would be very happy with USC. Great international business program and good social scene.

11

Look at the REAL USC (in Los Angeles). I think you would be an excellent applicant for their top merit scholarships, and they have a top 10 undergraduate business program. Getting a full ride has the equivalent acceptance rate of HYP, but that seems to be a possibility for you and a half-scholarship looks well within your reach.

12

I think that replacing uchicago with USC (la) seems like a good idea bc given your self-description, I don’t think uchicago is a good fit for you. And I do think you have a shot at good merit $ at USC.

13

“Level of interest” is not the most reliable way of gauging the impact of ED. Dartmouth admits that it gives ED applicants a boost, but the boost is not as noticeable as at some other universities (such as Penn).

Yes, there’s no disputing that ED provides a boost at Penn. As another point in the OP’s favor, Penn takes class rank seriously, and students ranked #1 in their class are admitted at rates noticeably higher even than students ranked #2.

You are a solid candidate for HYP, certainly. These days, however, that means the same 5-10% chance as any other solid applicant – not great odds. Penn and Dartmouth are both extremely good schools. If you are 100% sure you’d be happy at either, ED might be a very prudent choice. As RD admit rates plummet, applying early can make much more of a difference than it used to.

UNC is a match if not safety for the OP (in-state). Being in-state also gives the OP a boost at Duke, although admission is much more unpredictable there than UNC.

I agree that the list is reach-heavy, however, unless the OP gets admitted ED. UVA and some of the top LACs like Colgate might be worth a look.

14

UChicago would not be a fit-definitely not preppy. For safeties try some LAC’s like Bucknell and Holy Cross…Might get some significant aid from HC. UPenn might not be a preppy school.

15

@warblersrule Thank you for the extended response and advice. I am dropping Williams from my list and adding University of Southern California for something more in the middle. I’m also looking at both Boston University and Boston College. BC is very expensive and from what I’ve heard they aren’t fantastic with their aid.

I agree with your sentiments regarding ED. I have toured both Dartmouth and UPenn and they stand out as my favorites. I could be accepted to either and happily attend without having any regrets. Given my feelings, wouldn’t it come down to my math two subject test coming up? If I score well then I should go ED to UPenn and if not go to Dartmouth? My thinking here is that I would love to go to either, the price is right at both, but Wharton is picky over the math 2 subject test and if I were not to score well (below 750) then ED to Dartmouth would have a higher likelihood of success?

16

BC promises to meet need, just as the other schools on your list do. It will, of course, vary in what that means, just as it will across ALL the schools that promise to meet need.

17

Thanks for the response. I’ll give BC another look.

18

Dartmouth and Penn are my two favorites as well so im just going to share what I am doing in case you agree with my reasoning. So personally, dartmouth edges penn for me but i would be extremely happy at both. The problem is dartmouth gives no advantage to ED so im going ED to penn to give myself some advantage.