<p>chai…hyps means the ivies…harvard, yale, princeton etc. you might want to check the threads on schools that offer good merit aid, and check schools that offer nmf scholarships… schools that are highly selective may offer good need-based aid (and minimal merit or no merit aid) but chances of getting in can be very low…ie vandy on your list had a 16% acceptance rate this year and the ivies are lower than that. look for schools that tell you what stats qualify for merit aid then your finances have nothing to do with it…if you are looking for safeties, sometimes you have to come down a tier</p>
<p>HYPS=Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford. These schools have aid way better than all the others, some don’t include home equity at all. But they are big reaches for all without hooks (athlete, legacy, minority) and your sons scores are on the low side for them and you don’t mention him being val, so they are, frankly, unlikely.</p>
<p>After that, at school that meet 100% of need you pretty much need to be able to afford your EFC. That would include Brown, which has some of the weaker aid for an ivy league school MIT, Swat and Mudd.</p>
<p>As you get to lower ranked school like Northeastern, he’ll most probably get some merit aid, but they don’t meet need, so whether it ends up doable will remain to be seen. </p>
<p>So a school where it’s FAFSA only, that won’t count home equity and he could qualify for a Cal grant and maybe a Regents-a UC-ends up making sense for many in your situation.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html?highlight=guaranteed[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html?highlight=guaranteed</a></p>
<p>A couple things.</p>
<p>Have you run an EFC calculator? With your income I’d expect your EFC to be quite low. That said you made no mention of your son’s Dad … if you are still married his salary will come into play. If he is a non-custodial parent his income will not come into play at FASA-only schools (most state schools) but will at CSS Profile schools (most high end private schools). Knowing his EFC will greatly affect what schools are good choices.</p>
<p>Stanford, MIT, Princeton, Princeton, and Brown do not provide merit aid … only financial aid … meeting 100% of need as defined by their EFC calcualtion. (PS - if science and engineering are potential majors than Cornell, Columbia, and Penn all might make more sense than Brown).</p>
<p>MIT is a TERRIFIC school … however pretty campus and college feel are not dscriptions often associated with MIT … to me it has a unique vibe that most students either love or hate … the campus is quite urban and far from beautiful.</p>
<p>Rice would be a great fit for him; it’s LAC sized (growing to 3500) and has a lot of flexibility in programs and students don’t declare majors until just before Junior year. Also has merit aid and great financial aid. :-)</p>
<p>anxiousmom, he’s definitely applying to Rice. We haven’t visited (and won’t unless he gets in and gets a good offer), but he feel very positive about it after going to a local presentation from one of the admissions officers.</p>
<p>OP- D (class of 2013) applied to 22 schools. Accepted to 14. We are in California and she applied to UC Davis, LA, Berkeley and Irvine. I wouldn’t worry about graduating in 4 years. From what we hear from her friends at Davis, you can do it in four years with proper planning. She is a math/science kid too and applied to HYPMS, U of Chicago, Northwestern. Got all no’s from this group, except for Stanford. So, I don’t know if applying to many of the top schools increases chances. As for financial aid at Stanford- a “full ride” still requires the family/student to pay about $4,500 for the 2014 class. Feel free to PM me if you would like more information.</p>
<p>You left out Rose-Hulman. They’re like Mudd, except slightly less selective, 2000 kids, and always in the top spot (instead of usually in the top spot) of USNWR’s rankings for engineering programs at schools not offering a PhD. They offered my son good merit aid, but not-so-good need-based aid, and our income is a bit better than yours. </p>
<p>And if you’re considering Colorado SCHOOL of Mines, you might also want to consider South Dakota School of Mines. I don’t know much about them except that they’d be cheaper for my son to go to than Colorado School of Mines even though we live 30 minutes away from CSM.</p>
<p>Make SURE that he submits his completed application to USC by the Dec 1 deadline. With his stats he would likely be considered for the Full tuition Trustees scholarship, but if he misses the Dec deadline he would not be eligible. He can apply to USC by Dec 1 AND any college that offers SCEA/ED, because an early application is required by USC for Trustee scholarship consideration [ NMF 1/2 tuition scholarship does not require early submission]</p>
<p>chai;</p>
<p>SD is usually considered #3 UC. And since your S is not interested in sports, it could be his #1. With his stats, it’s a safety for admission and honors program. Whether he’s would be competitive for Regents?</p>
<p>Vandy is big on sports and school spirit, so may not be a good fit.</p>
<p>Definitely include some of your state schools as safeties- both for financial and academic reasons. Near perfect, or even perfect, test scores and grades are no guarantee of admission to HYPS- you’d be surprised at the numbers of students who are your son’s academic peers among the thousands of HS seniors compared to the limited number of available spots at those schools. </p>
<p>Regardless of how liberal a U is the student body will reflect their hometown roots to some extent. Part of the college experience is to widen horizens. But also consider his comfort zone- the ability to find like minded students.</p>
<p>As a math/science person I understand choosing colleges with larger offerings/majors in math/science/engineering than available at many smaller LACs (liberal arts colleges). I also can see choosing some larger public/private schools that have many students in liberal arts so he is exposed to other ways of thinking in electives as well as in the dorms and other areas. Consider travel costs when choosing geographic regions.</p>
<p>cem, I’d suggest that your son look at Williams. No engineering, but excellent math and sciences with a great track record for internships and graduate school admissions. Williams also has exceptionally good music and art opportunities for majors and non-majors. Aid would be entirely need based but it would compare favorably with other needbased selective colleges.</p>
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<p>Even if your son has no intention of majoring in art (or even taking a studio class) he should submit an art portfolio as a supplement to his application. Small LACs and some mid-sized universities appreciate multifaceted, talented kids and this would be a point of differentiation that would set him apart from other math/science kids.</p>
<p>Keep Case Western Reserve University on the list. It sounds like a very good fit for your son; I think he would like it there very much. Good merit aid, too.</p>
<p>wis75, I do appreciate the comment about geography. I have an older son who went to school in Boston and I know we didn’t see him as much as we wanted because of airfare. We were lucky though. He resettled in our area after college and I don’t think that’s the norm.</p>
<p>Some of the schools that you’re considering don’t give any merit (or much merit) at all.</p>
<p>I can see that your son has his eyes on elites and those MAY work out for him acceptance-wise and financially - but they may not.</p>
<p>You mention needing both merit and FA. **I hope you realize that FA is often reduced when merit is awarded. You don’t get awarded FA and then get to use merit to pay your EFC. ** Many misunderstand that. So, if COA is $30k and EFC is $15k, and you get a grant for $10k and a scholarship for $10k, then the grant is going to be reduced by $5k. </p>
<p>There are really only a couple of ways to reduce EFC so as to reduce the amount that you’ll have to pay.</p>
<p>1) Get a merit scholarship that is so big that it exceeds “need” and then cuts into EFC</p>
<p>For instance…if COA is $30k and EFC is $15k. If you get a merit scholarship for $20k, then you’ll only have to pay $10k. </p>
<p>2) Go to a school where the COA is less than your EFC</p>
<p>**Those who are self-employed sometime get unfavorable aid because EFC formulas don’t deduct your big social security contributions and such. And, depending on how you have your business set up, your AGI income may be very high…even if your net income is rather middle class. Your EFC may end up too high. ** A UVA self-employed family sadly learned late in the spring that their real EFC was a lot more than they thought it would be. Their FAFSA was corrected to include amounts that they didn’t realize would be included for the dad’s self-employed income.</p>
<p>**Advise your son to protect himself by applying to several financial safety schools. ** Financial safety schools may not always be the perfect fit - but that’s the sacrifice one makes for affordability…sort of like the difference between buying a garment “off the rack” at a much, much better price than having it custom made. </p>
<p>Some parents solve the problem with kids who won’t apply to a few financial safeties by insisting that the student apply to a couple of “parent picks”. </p>
<p>BTW…financial safety schools usually have the easiest applications - often no essays or recs are required - so not demanding of much time/effort at all. Sometimes parents are able to do those apps themselves online. My SIL did 2-3 of these for my niece. My SIL told me it took like half an hour to apply online to 3 safeties.</p>
<p>**
The fear about sports schools and party schools is often overblown. ** Any student in a serious major will be surrounded by other serious students. WHO CARES if across the campus in other buildings there are kids who are taking lighter majors and have time to party? What difference does it make to the serious student???</p>
<p>My kids have awesome scholarships (NMF and Presidential/Engineering) at a so-called party school - Alabama (we’re California natives). My boys are in the honors dorms (very quiet), they have serious-minded classmates (their majors are math and chemical engineering/pre-med), and they’re both in the Honors College.<br>
**
It doesn’t affect my kids at all that some kids in lighter majors across the quad have time to party. ** </p>
<p>As for caring about sports. Many kids who attend so-called big sports schools don’t care about sports. My kids do like attending football games, but they have friends who’ve never been to one game. There’s no pressure to attend. No one cares what people choose to do. That said, it’s also not unusual for a student who never cared about sports to end up enjoying attending some games - especially if the team is winning. </p>
<p>We have a very large EFC because of rental property. The only way for us to not pay “full freight” for both sons at any college is for them to accept big scholarships. That worked for us because we’ve agreed to help them with med school and grad school. </p>
<p>Bama has strong academics and a gorgeous campus (as a native Californian, I was blown away because I was used to mostly ugly Calif campuses.). It has a phenomenal Honors College which has 4 very different honors programs - including the Computer-Based Honors Program which only invites 40 students per year.</p>
<p>BTW…Alabama has 40% of its students from out of state so it’s a more cosmopolitan campus and less of a “southern” campus. It definitely is NOT a deep south campus at all…except for friendliness.</p>
<p>Bama recently jumped 17 places in the US News Ranking. That’s partly because Bama has aggressively recruited high stats kids from all over. Bama has over 2000 students on campus that receive free tuition or more because of their very high stats. </p>
<p>Bama has kids from all 50 states. To give you an idea of the numbers of kids from various states that aren’t close to Alabama…</p>
<p>Illinois: 148
California: 103
Texas: 752
Mich: 53 students
Ohio: 124
Penn: 73
New York: 43
Virginia: 338
New Jersey: 66
Maryland: 144
Mass: 37
Conn: 47
Indiana: 49
Florida: 728
Hawaii: 8</p>
<p>Since money is a big issue, your son will be a likely NMF and has high stats, he needs to protect himself by having some acceptances and big **ASSURED **scholarships from a few schools. **MANY have early scholarship deadlines, so don’t delay! ** Every spring there are students here on CC lamenting that they didn’t apply to financial safety schools or they only applied to one and they don’t want to go there. At that point it’s waaay tooo late for these kids to apply to schools that would have given them big scholarships for their high stats.</p>
<p>Schools with big competitive scholarships cannot be considered safeties since the money isn’t assured. Applying to a couple of those schools is fine, but also include some schools with assured big merit for stats.</p>
<p>Some think you only need one financial safety school that you like. I don’t agree. Sometimes a schools that is “loved” in the fall, is not loved in the spring (and vice versa).</p>
<p>**I think that when money is an issue, a student needs 2-3 financial safety schools at least. ** That way, if the pricey schools don’t work out, he has a choice. No one likes to feel railroaded into one affordable school. It hurts morale. </p>
<p>In spite of your son’s objections, he needs to also apply to at least 2 UC schools as matches/reaches/safeties (depending on UC)</p>
<p>The UC issues are rather overblown. I have several nieces and nephews and countless cousins who are either at UCs or recently graduated from UCs - and they all have or will graduate on time. Three graduated EARLY! Those students who take 5 years or more often cause the problems themselves - by changing majors, dropping classes, refusing to take an 8 am class or late afternoon class, etc.</p>
<p>In case you don’t know what a financial safety is…it’s a school where your son is certain to get accepted and that you KNOW FOR SURE will be affordable because you can pay for it out of pocket and/or assured merit.</p>
<p>The truth is that when money is an issue, a choice isn’t always “perfect”.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids, thanks for the straight talk. i believe you wrote to me last spring about your sons’ experiences at Bama. I really appreciate what you said about having several financial safeties so my son has a choice come spring if none of the elite choices come through–either with acceptances or enough funding.</p>
<p>What I’d really like to know is how to assess how my self-employment income will be handled. How self-employed people are treated by the financial aid offices? What documentation is needed? How many years of returns? Etc. Do you know of any threads or posts that deal specifically with the nuts and bolts of that issue? </p>
<p>Would it be better for me to start a new thread on that topic or just post about it here? I don’t know the etiquette here. What do you suggest?</p>
<p>Also, knowing my son’s interests, besides UC Davis, what UC campuses do you think would be best for him to apply to?</p>
<p>mom2collegekids, one more thing…besides bama, what other schools would you suggest be on the absolute safety list?</p>
<p>Chai, don’t want to be negative but another consideration for you needs to be what happens to your son sophomore, junior and senior year. Your income can/will go up and down. If you are so disciplined that every extra penny your business earns would be available for college than you don’t need to worry. But for most people that’s not the case.</p>
<p>We know LOTS of kids who, sadly, this year and last were not able to return to their colleges. Kids lost merit awards due to a bad year (many of the very generous scholarships have GPA requirements which are very tough to maintain with a tough course load); kids need based aid was trimmed if/when a parent got a raise or income increased substantially; we know parents who were frantically faxing in medical forms all summer to show that their “special situations” warranted extra aid even with extra income.</p>
<p>So make sure you and your S are looking not just at Year I reality, but also subsequent years. </p>
<p>Cooper Union? U Missouri at Rolla? and have you looked at the stats on admissions from his HS to get a reality check? I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a list that’s reach-heavy as long as they are realistic reaches. If nobody from your HS with your S’s stats have ever gotten into one of the reaches on his list I think it’s safe to eliminate it.</p>
<p>I wish there could be a cookie attached to some of the great posts, like momcollegekids, blossom, axm, 3-2-go, etc. I want to print out these posts and present them to every parent/teen who thinks that if they apply to a dozen “reaches”, wanting full FA, something will work out. (Actually, I will do that, but Chai’s questions and the answers offered represent years of wisdom.)</p>
<p>I’m another poster recommending to keep the UCs in the mix.</p>
<p>S1 did a double major at CAL in 4.5 years including a semester abroad. The two majors were unrelated and one was applied math. He did not start with these majors, but was very focused once he selected them. </p>
<p>S2 is currently at UC Davis in engineering. He transferred to the school of engineering from letters and sciences at the end of his sophomore year. I expect he will graduate in 4.25 years.</p>