Need Help Choosing: NU, DUKE, CORNELL

Colleges and Universities A-Z Northwestern University
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<p>Hello, I was recently accepted to Northwestern, Duke, Cornell.
I am still waiting on NU's MMSS program decision and am highly interested in completing the Financial Economics Certificate. (Assume that I did get into MMSS for this discussion.)
I understand that all three are excellent schools and that other major factors like personal fit, setting, etc. should be factored into my final decision.
Given that, I will be visiting all three schools mid-April.</p>

<p>However, I wanted an honest, professional/student opinion about which schools have the edge in terms of:
1. Raw Academic Caliber (in my area of interest, see below)
2. Internship/Work Opportunities (in my area of interest, see below)
3. Graduate School Prospects (specifics are detailed below)</p>

<p>As of now, I am highly interested in economics and mathematics.
I am also thinking of pursuing a career in law, getting an mba, or doing more graduate work (economics Phd perhaps).
But one thing I am pretty sure that I want to do is to work for our government, particularly the Federal Government and its various departments/bureaus/agencies.
Possibly somewhere like the Federal Reserve or the US Justice Department or the US Dept. of Treasury.</p>

<p>I heard NU has many students interning at the Chicago Fed every year. Some input concerning this and other public sector internships not only in Chicago but in DC as well would be appreciated.</p>

<p>Also, is it true that NU students tend to be confined more towards Chicago in terms of recruitment unlike say Duke which has representation in NYC/DC/South? What about Cornell? (I don't know much about Cornell.)</p>

<p>Now, I know how legendary Northwestern's MMSS program is along with its heavy recruitment each year. But I am having second-hand thoughts about whether it indeed is the best program to be in especially when a lot of top-notch federal and private sector recruiters hire based on name-brand recognition: ex. Cornell is an Ivy School, Duke seems to be more recognized on the eastern seaboard.</p>

<p>Also Duke seems to have a Financial Concentration in the Economics Major. What is this and how does it compared to Kellogg Cert?</p>

<p>I need help choosing and would really appreciate a fair, honest opinion not biased by school pride. I have to make my final decision in the next few weeks.</p>

<p>A few pointers on what/whom to seek out when I visit NU during the Wildcat Days would be appreciated. I know I'm gonna go visit the MMSS director and students/econ dept.
Also what should I ask and seek in general when I go visit the different colleges?</p>

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<p>Northwestern has all the name brand recognition anyone ever needs. You have three outstanding choices; you don’t need to look for “an edge” but rather you can make the decision simply based on personal fit and preference. Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>The financial concentration in the econ major at Duke is considered a business light (we have those too in BIP); it’s not high-level like Kellogg cert, not anywhere close.</p>

<p>If you want to work for the government as a quant or analyst, technical skills are as important as school name. That’s probably why the three agencies you mentioned are on this list:
<a href=“http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/students/job-opportunties.html[/url]”>http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/students/job-opportunties.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Economics
US Dept of Justice Antitrust Division, Economic Analysis Group
Federal Reserve Bank Chicago
Mathematica Policy Research
National Bureau for Economic Research
Office of Financial Research US Dept. of the Treasury, Washington, DC</p>

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<p>I would say academically, if you get into MMSS, there is no question you should choose NU. There is 0 question MMSS is at the very very top of the line- many students each year choose it over Wharton et al, and the recruitment can’t be beat.</p>

<p>Without MMSS it gets murkier- assuming you like all three equally, I’d say NU and Duke trump Cornell fairly handily, and from there it’s a real question. Duke tends to do better in Ibanking and hedge funds, whereas NU does better in MC.</p>

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<p>I would narrow it down to Northwestern and Duke and go from there. But to be honest, I think if you get into MMSS or the Kellogg Certificate, you are essentially guaranteed a prestigious job unless you mess up or don’t do internships throughout college. However, if you visit Duke and think it’s a better fit, go there. If you visit Northwestern and like it more, then definitely go there. I agree it really comes down to fit at this point. </p>

<p>While the path at Duke is less certain, you can definitely land a prestigious job coming out of there as well, if you know the right things to do and make sure you follow through on those commitments. Being able to create your own path in that sense can be exciting, but realize that not everybody will be hired in the end.</p>

<p>With MMSS/Kellogg Cert, your classes are set, employer partnerships are established, and the classes employers are looking for have already been determined for you. It is essentially an established pipeline to a fast-track prestigious career. While there’s room to deviate from this, at least there is a clear path ahead that can give you a greater sense of security throughout your college years, and that’s a huge plus.</p>

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<p>

This simply isn’t true Sam. The Kellogg certificate sounds extremely intense and rigorous but the Financial concentration offered in the Duke economics department isn’t business light by any means. I took Intermediate Finance which is like the gateway course in the concentration and it was very calculus and math heavy-calculating bond durations/yields/convexities, predicting futures using calculus, and complex interest rate calculations. It was taught at a very high level and my B+ there was well-earned.;)</p>

<p>Neither Duke or NU would ever have a certificate or concentration within their traditional core majors that would be less rigorous. It would go against the liberal arts traditions of the two universities.</p>

<p>Check out the course requirements for the Financial Concentration within the Economics major at Duke: <a href=“http://public.econ.duke.edu/uploads/assets/News/finance_concentration.pdf[/url]”>http://public.econ.duke.edu/uploads/assets/News/finance_concentration.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There’s a business certificate called Markets and Management that’s offered through the Sociology department and I can confirm that that’s a total joke.:D</p>

<p>

Based on my experience, this isn’t true. Cornell is better than NU for banking specifically and NU is much, much better for consulting. Duke is on par with NU for consulting and Cornell for banking so it might be the best overall option.</p>

<p>For instance, McKinsey only lists Harvard, Yale, Penn, and Duke as their core schools for their Sophomore Diversity Leadership Institute.
[Sophomore</a> Diversity Leaders Internship | Careers | McKinsey & Company](<a href=“http://www.mckinsey.com/Careers/Apply/University_recruiting/Internships_at_McKinsey/SDLI]Sophomore”>http://www.mckinsey.com/Careers/Apply/University_recruiting/Internships_at_McKinsey/SDLI)</p>

<p>NU is a strong target for BCG, Bain, McKinsey, and Booz for sure though so you can’t really go wrong.</p>

<p>Ultimately, I agree with Pizzagirl to visit all the schools and decide based on personal preference in the end.</p>

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<p>Some generic comments that should be considered - Duke is in the South and has many of the Southern traditions and philosophies, NU is in the midwest and similarly has midwest traditions and philosophies. Duke is more conservative and preppie, NU more creative and liberal. My cousin is a professor at Duke and a different cousin’s daughter is a Sophomore there. The prof has been there for many years and always felt he was more of a Southerner even though he was born and bred up North. The student loves it but does get tired of the Southern viewpoint.</p>

<p>Academically I’m sure you’ll be very successful in both, look at the schools to try and understand the feel of each.</p>

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<p>^^My bad; I confused that with Markets and Management. NU econ dept also offers couple finance courses like Corporate Finance Theory, International Finance, or Public Finance. They don’t have many of these perhaps because if you get too many, the major would become more like finance as a trade instead of economics as a social science and liberal arts major.</p>

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<p>

Those are rash generalizations in the view of someone who attended Duke and has friends who went to NU. Duke is a very liberal institution and in fact the only top schools I can think of that can be characterized as being conservative is Notre Dame for obvious reasons. Even Vanderbilt is a liberal institution. Some schools like Berkeley or Columbia are ultra-liberal but neither NU or Duke fall in that bucket.</p>

<p>

The majority of the employees at Duke are Southern but the undergraduate student body is pretty geographically diverse with the top 5 states of representation being California, North Carolina, New York, Florida, and Texas in that order. There’s a high contingent of kids from the VA-MD-NJ-PA area as well but with the exception of Virginia, none of these states have a particular Southern affectation. Even in VA, most of the Duke caliber students are located in the wealthy NOVA area and not the extremely Southern part of the state.</p>

<p>I actually wish Duke was a little more Southern actually.:wink: I’m sure NU draws a lot of students from the Northeast corridor and California as well.</p>

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<p>I believe the saying is if you’re a smart kid from North Carolina and want to go to a great college in North Carolina, you go to UNC. If you’re a smart kid from North Carolina and want to go to a great college in New Jersey, you go to Duke. :P</p>

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<p>Thanks for the input guys. More input on government work/DC internships would be appreciated.</p>

<p>Some of you guys said that NU MMSS puts you on a certain track for good jobs in MC and other places.</p>

<p>However, that is one part of my concern. I am, for now, pretty set on doing economics. But I also have an interest in engineering as well.</p>

<p>To my knowledge, at Duke it is much easier to switch majors/departments/schools freely. (Example: Trinity Arts and Sciences to Pratt Engineering) This kind of flexibility is definitely a plus I think as opposed to NU which has partitioned schools with separate admissions. Changing say from economics to engineering would be more difficult and may result in 1 extra year of school no?</p>

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<p>Also,
Also how does NU MMSS fare in terms of JD/Econ Phd/MBA placement to Duke and Cornell?</p>

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<p>School is completely irrelevant for JD placement (ps don’t go to law school). NU will put you in just as good stead for PhD admissions. I can’t speak to MBA but I imagine NU would be just as good as the other as well (again, Work Experience, GMAT, and GPA will be more important).</p>

<p>Transferring out of Engineering is easy. The problem with transferring in is keeping up with the core courses.</p>

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<p>Just sharing the experiences of those I know, both students and professors, at Duke. If your experiences are different, thanks for sharing.</p>

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<p>Other than IEMS, I can’t think of any engineering discipline that would interest you, based on what you told us. But Duke does not have IEMS.</p>

<p>There’s a 4-yr IEMS-Econ dual major program at NU. But you’d probably have to give up MMSS in that case (unless you really want to take 5 classes a quarter). IEMS does set you up nicely for Managerial Analytics certificate.</p>

<p>The Engineering First curriculum means you probably have to transfer in before the fall start, or you’ll have to wait for next year. Based on what you told us about your interest, I’d stick with econ + MMSS and maybe take a few IEMS classes if I were you.</p>

<p>Also, check the following out:
<a href=“Harvey Kapnick Center for Business Institutions - Northwestern University”>Harvey Kapnick Center for Business Institutions - Northwestern University;
[Roads</a> to Business at Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.roadstobusiness.northwestern.edu/]Roads”>http://www.roadstobusiness.northwestern.edu/)</p>

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<p>Cornell for engineeriing!</p>

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<p>^Northwestern is as good as Cornell in quite a few engineering disciplines. For IEMS, it’s even better (ranked #3 in the nation).</p>

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<ol>
<li>Raw Academic Caliber (in my area of interest, see below)</li>
<li>Internship/Work Opportunities (in my area of interest, see below)</li>
<li>Graduate School Prospects (specifics are detailed below)</li>
</ol>

<p>I’m surprised the OP’s question isn’t being more pointedly addressed in responses and that people aren’t being clearer in supporting arbiter’s “School is completely irrelevant” response.</p>

<p>lienad60, you will not be able to parse the miniscule differences between these three schools re: opportunities. There will be ABSOLUTELY no MEASURABLE diffences in grad school (law, PhD or, eventually, MBA) placement between them. If you work your tail off, take every challenging opportunity to prove yourself and do so, you’ll give yourself an understandable boost in competitiveness anywhere. As Sam Lee has argued (and I’d agree) speaking to NU specifically, the built in top recruiting that comes with MMSS and the Certificate programs is really not beatable. If you choose to “compete” on this level and achieve, the world’s your oyster. As far as worrying there’s a Chicago centric focus for grads - welcome to the a school in the midwest where the largest single group of students call the midwest their home. And Chicago is to the midwest what NY is to the east. Fed jobs are there regardless of where you hail from - New York, New Orleans, New Canaan or, well, you get the point. </p>

<p>It’s surprising given the marked differences in locales these schools present that that doesn’t seem to be factoring into decision making. Durham-Triangle, Ithaca, Evanston-Chicago will present pretty different settings over four years.</p>

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</p>

<p>Seriously. Ithaca is pretty and all, but you don’t want to live here for 4 years if you have other options.</p>

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<p>Wow, Bala good post.</p>

<p>You know what, I think what I’ve consistently heard from you, Sam Lee, wildcatalum, and Pizzagirl is that NU’s MMSS is really geared towards prestigious internships, career opportunities, and grad school prospects (given that you put in a lot of effort).</p>

<p>I don’t know if it is biased to say that NU+MMSS+Kellog Cert. is better than Duke(with no guarantees).
And I still have questions about whether the whole IVY LEAGUE thing with Cornell or Duke’s slightly better name recognition really matters in terms of recruiters.
Any advice concerning these issues would be much appreciated.</p>

<p>But with what you guys have said, I am leaning towards NU just in terms of the skills (MMSS+Kellog Cert.) and the strength of its Economics department/research/faculty.
This is aside from personal fit, which I cannot know unless I visit for myself.</p>

<p>I’m gonna go visit NU for 2 1/2 days during its Wildcat Days program.
One of the first places I’m gonna go is to Prof. William Rogerson’s office(director of MMSS) to talk to him, to talk to other MMSS students, and to experience some of its classes/learn more about Kellog Cert. and the econ courses at NU.
Any other things I should do to absorb the NU experience in full?</p>