Need Help Dealing w/ Parents Concerning College Search

College Search & Selection
1

Hi, I’m a junior in HS, making a list of colleges to apply to next school year. I found some schools that I really like, mentioned them to my parents - who promptly blew up. Long story short, I need help with convincing them to agree with my choices.

BACKGROUND: First-gen immigrants + Asian + SoCal residents (worst combination for college expectations lol…) and I’m the first kid in the family to go through the whole college admissions journey, so I’m pretty much winging it. To tell the truth, my parents don’t know that much about college admissions - my dad has yelled at me for not writing my college essays during spring break (of junior year!) and my mom has demanded to know how many of my fellow juniors had gotten accepted into Stanford this year. It’s gotten to the point that I’ve begged them to look at CC to get a better idea of how this whole thing works - only for them to protest that everyone has a different situation, and so nothing that any other student has gone through can possibly be applicable to my own.

Anyways, I’m mostly looking at liberal arts schools/schools with a liberal arts philosophy, because I want somewhere with a smaller school size and bigger focus on undergrad… because with tuition being as high as it is, I really don’t want to get shoved aside for the sake of research projects w/ grad students. I’m currently looking at becoming a Chemistry major, or possibly CS/Bio/Engineering, but most of the LACs I’m looking at have pretty good programs for these. I’m also interested in the humanities, mostly English (which I’ve considered as a double major) so there’s no “STEM master race, gross icky humanities” thing going on with me. Judging from my family’s income, I’ll most likely get a lot of FA (since I’m well aware that LACs have crazy high tuition/board, and I don’t expect to throw a 60k a year burden on my family’s shoulders.)

My parents have a pretty unrealistic idea of my acceptance chances, and seem to believe that as long as I am a good writer, I can be that one “student who gets into HYPS without a 4.0 but with a beautiful essay” that their friends always talk about… which, no. Their main concerns about my college lists are:

  1. Location - they want me to stay in California (which I’m seriously not excited for, I want to get out, sorry sunshine state!), but when I try to talk to them about that issue, they claim that I’ll come crying home after a month where winter actually exists/in a college town/where the population isn’t 50% Asian. Also, they told me that there are no internship/research opportunities available if I go to school on the East Coast/Midwest.

I’m not as cocky to go “LAC life, screw the really good UC’s and CSU’s” but… I guess I’m just not very excited about them (though I would go if there wasn’t other options, obviously.)

-> I do have a list of fly-in’s that I’m planning on applying to, in order to experience the environment there. Everything else, I’m hoping to find hard evidence to contradict.

  1. How good the schools are - they’ve never heard of schools like Carleton, Bowdoin, Amherst, etc. and have only heard of Williams from that one Newsweek poll. When I told them that they were seriously great schools (that are actually my reaches) they said that there had to be a reason why none of the other kids they’ve heard of applied to them.

*3) Maybe not as related to specific college selection, but my parents criticize me on the majors I’ve considered, I guess because I’ve never been super good at any subject. I get A’s/5’s/750+'s on the aligned tests for chem/bio/cs/etc, but not like… semifinalist/top 20 for USABO/USACO or anything like that. I’ve always thought that entering a certain science field doesn’t require a national-level skill for it, but if I can have any reassurance that just general aptitude for a subject is good enough for entering a major for it, it would be really, really appreciated.

Whew, okay… this was a lot (maybe put a bit of a rant in there…) But I’m looking for ways to to solve the issues they have with the schools on my list and maybe convince them to consider my own choices a bit more. Anything helps!

2

You and your parents need to do one thing first: figure out the college budget, and check how realistic financial aid will be at each college, using each college’s net price calculator.

Next thing is to start your list with a safety which you are certain to be admitted to, certain to be able to afford, and which you like (if you like UCR and it is affordable, you can sign up for its admission guarantee in June or July if you have the needed GPA and SAT/ACT score). However, it looks like your parents won’t like anything that could possibly be a safety, since anything with the prestige value of Stanford cannot be a safety for anyone.

Chemistry should be common at LACs; you can check https://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/coldfusionapp?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=mapp_cptasl_page . Biology is also common, although LACs and other smaller schools may not have as much breadth and depth in the various subareas. Good CS and engineering may be harder to find at LACs other than a few obvious ones. Note that chemistry and biology are popular majors, so they tend to have large class sizes compared to others at the same college, and the bachelor’s degree level job market specific to these majors is relatively weak.

Yes, you can major in something without having been a super-achiever in high school in that subject. Most chemistry, biology, CS, engineering, and English majors were not super-achievers in high school in those subjects.

3

Thanks for the help! Yeah, I get that tuition and etc. is the most important thing. Problem is, right now, they refuse to even fill out the net price calculator for the specific LACs (especially since my dad saw something about Stanford giving full rides to everyone with a family income of 125k or less… :neutral_face: ) I know these things are hard to predict, but I have a < 100k family income for a family of 6. Any vague predictions for that? (Also, the LACs I’m looking at are mostly 100% need met.)

Do you know about the internships/research available at LACs with good STEM programs? Harvey Mudd reminds me too much of the hardcore GPA calculating study-study-study environment of my high school to be somewhere I really want to go, though it is a LAC.

Thanks for the reassurance on the major issue (hah)!

4

http://financialaid.stanford.edu/undergrad/how/parent.html says that Stanford financial aid will cover tuition charges (but not necessarily room, board, books, etc.) for parental income under $125,000.

He should use Stanford’s net price calculator at http://financialaid.stanford.edu/undergrad/how/calculator/index.html to get a better estimate.

Do not rely on claims of “100% need met”. Financial aid packages can vary significantly between schools making that claim. See this discussion: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1675058-meet-full-need-schools-can-vary-significantly-in-their-net-prices-p1.html

You can try the net price calculators using $99,999 income and a family of 6. However, if it asks for assets, you may be taking a wild guess, you can try with various levels of asset estimates.

5

Williams and Bowdoin and other northeastern LACs are just as good as the ones on California, if not better… Williams is an amazing school, but be prepared for winters! Also, see what schools offer strong departments in your major… Finally, Bowdoin is a beautiful college with an amazing location, great food, etc

My recommendation would be to meet with your guidance counselor, ALONE, and take discuss your options

6

1.) Location

Get to the bottom of why they want you to stay in CA. Hammer it out. A lot of parents don’t like to admit that they have selfish reasons for keeping their kids handy that have nothing to do with research opps on the east coast or Asian populations or the nasty north winds. That’s a smoke screen. Sadly, many parents are so controlling and untrusting that they can’t bear the thought of not exerting their influence over their children, and how can they manage that when junior is in Boston? Parents get lonely too and don’t like seeing children leave the nest. However, that’s a terrible reason to put the binders on a child: learning how to take responsibility for your actions/decisions is a huge part of growing up, and what parent that loves their child wouldn’t want them to grow up? How are you supposed to become an adult if your parents won’t give you the freedom to choose? Stuff that in their pipe and let them smoke it for a while. See if they mellow out.

You need to be absolutely clear about whether your folks are even going to allow you to venture out-of-state for school. I’ve seen that before. They nod their heads from August to March and say, how nice, junior is applying to a school in Massachusetts, oh and look at this lovely one in North Carolina. Good for junior, I hope he gets in. Then you get in and whammo, they put the hammer down and essentially force you to go to school down the street. What a giant waste of time. And let’s face it, many students engage in similar behaviour. They will spend weeks hunting for the best fitting out-of-state schools and writing fantastic essays and feeding their dreams, but when the school finally grants their wish and admits them, they get cold feet and can’t really consider the school seriously due to the distance from home. You need to be clear about your own limits and your parents’ intentions, and if you don’t like their conclusions on the matter, find some more arguments to throw at them.

You’d be missing out on an opportunity to politic with your parents if you don’t apply to a few UCs. Throw them a bone and apply. They will likely take some of the heat off you for wanting to go out-of-state. Plus, if you get admitted, you’ll probably have affordable options in the bag. So bargain with your folks and offer them a few CA schools in exchange for the freedom to head out-of-state if the opportunity arises. Make sure you have a firm agreement about what that “freedom” means.

2.) Academic Quality

This isn’t your problem, exactly. You know there are dozens of excellent schools out-of-state, many of them fairly wealthy LACs that might meet your needs perfectly. Make this their problem. Throw it in their laps any way you can. Ask them what they know about these schools. Provide the websites, the rankings, the CC threads, the articles on the benefits of a liberal arts education, etc. They’re not going to do this research on their own. Tell them there is a “reason why none of the other kids they’ve heard of applied” to these LACs. It’s because those kids’ parents didn’t do any research either, just like them. Get out the pipe again.

3.) Majors

What majors do your parents approve of? You’re a 2200+ SAT student. So what if you’ve never been top-shelf in any subject! That’s partly what college is for, to discover talents and passions. Besides, you’re interested in chemistry, biology, compsci, engineering. Sheesh. Whatever you do, don’t come home from school one day and announce that you’re giving up on the STEM and you intend to pursue classics with a smidge of sociology. The folks will throw a conniption fit.

Stay the course with the majors. I think it’s great that you’re looking to supplement science with the arts. Your parents will eventually come around here, but maybe you can lessen their fears by charting out a solid long-term plan for employment.

7

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and my mom has demanded to know how many of my fellow juniors had gotten accepted into Stanford this year.


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How much are your parents willing to spend?

If a lot, then hire a college planner. That expert will set them straight.

8

@lovechemistry301 Look into Deep Springs College. It’s reputation is outstanding, it hits all you LAC interests, it’s far away but still in California, it’s elite, tiny, and all students get a full-ride. Graduates matriculate to the best schools, and half of the graduates have gone on to doctorates. What other school can say that?

9

I doubt the parents would accept that school. ^^ They likely want one that people have heard of and will say, “wow, your kid is smart!”

I think some person could make a mint as a college adviser to these Tiger type parents.

10

If you can’t afford a college planner find another better informed adult to talk to them. Do you have a friend who is also looking at LACs maybe their parents can talk to yours. Or even better if one of your parent’s friends have a kid at an LAC ask them to talk to your parents.

11

Is there any opportunity for them to visit some options with you? (Would that help or hurt?) You’re on the right track exposing them to as many alternate opinions as possible. (We have a related issue with a family member sorta stuck in ye oldene times … they’re coming along day by day…)

12

Take a break from discussing this any further until you’ve had a chance to bone up on a better approach. There is a book I recommend, “Getting More: How to Negotiate to Achieve Your Goals in the Real World” by Stuart Diamond. As he says, paraphrasing a bit

So you have some suggestions above that sound perfectly rational (find an informed adult, have them visit some colleges, etc). You say you are looking for " hard evidence to contradict." IMHO none of this will not work. Not yet, anyway. These methods are your standards, not theirs, and will be summarily dismissed. Any set of facts, anything someone else tells them, can be “refuted” by a counter-argument because the negotiation isn’t something being scored by debate judges.

As Diamond points out, the way to negotiate with a more powerful party is to find out what their standards are. How does one identify a good college? Where else should you apply if you don’t get into Stanford, and why? Are there books or people such as a GC that can give guidance on how to pick a good set of colleges for you? What matters aren’t your answers, but theirs. Only when you have agreed on a framework to pick colleges can you then work, together, to put their standards into play. Right now you’re focusing on outcome, not process, and its a battle of wills that you are going to lose. But if a book they suggested or a person they said knows the college game says to look at LACs they are going to have a hard time backing away from their own approach.

Invest an hour watching Diamond talk at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOZo6Lx70ok and see if you want to alter your approach, to read his book.

13

Woah, I didn’t expect this thread to get attention almost a month since my initial post! Thanks everyone for the advice.

Fortunately, my situation has gotten a lot better, in that my parents seem to be considering letting me venture out of California, though I’m not sure if that will last when the actual application season starts - they’re still pretty iffy.

I get the feeling that because my parents don’t have any previous experience with the whole process and we’re not well-off enough that we can casually plop down a few grand for college counseling/planner (which is how much that goes for in these parts, so you’re not wrong about the people making a mint @mom2collegekids LOL) they just want to go with the “most common approach” to schools than considering other options.

@Dunboyne: This is seriously very helpful, thanks! I’ve talked to my parents and just about locked down which specific UC’s I will be applying to, and in return, they’re letting me apply to around four or five LACs, which is great. I’ll try to figure out how legitimate they are in letting me go out-of-state.

@MaMoi77: Thank you for the suggestion! It looks amazing, and it’s somewhere that my parents would at least consider (if just because of the full ride.) I’m just a bit wary about the size (26 people is seriously tiny) and the location, which might a bit too remote and rural for my tastes.

@whatthewhat: That’s pretty much the situation I’m in right now, except I don’t know many people who they might be able to talk to. I go to a pretty tech-oriented schools, and while there are still a few kids who get into top LACs every year, I don’t know any of them personally. As a result, the school counselors - or maybe just my own - don’t seem very familiar with LACs either - mine told me to apply only if I was certain about my interests in art, and seemed five seconds from calling up the mental asylum when I explained my prospective majors.

@porcupine98: Planning college visits will be difficult, since my family’s pretty big and my mom works full-time. I am applying to some fly-in programs this summer/next school year, and I hope it will give me some legitimacy in my desire to go out-of-state (since then I would have actually experienced the weather/atmosphere.)

@mikemac: Thanks! I’ll take a look at those as soon as possible.

14

Are your parents now willing to run the net price calculators on each possible school? They should not expect the Stanford result to be applicable to others, since Stanford tends to be extra generous with financial aid compared to most other schools.

Have you and they had any cost-related discussions? Perhaps also important, is it possible that they may try to force you to take unwise amounts of debt to satisfy their notions of school prestige? Some students have reported overly-controlling parents trying to force them toward higher cost/debt schools when they really prefer a lower cost/debt option.