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<p>That’s my experience too. I don’t drink except on rare occasions, but it’s merely because I don’t care for the taste. I just drank soft drinks and enjoyed being with people. You can find kids like this everywhere, and kids who are hard partiers everywhere.</p>
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<p>I can. I recall an incident (mid 1980’s) in which a drunk student on my campus decided to go do push-ups on a major road running through campus at 1 am, and was hit by a car and killed. Point being, I think some things fall under - whenever you’ve got a bunch of kids who are now freed from parental controls, there are always x% of them who will do stupid things. That was true then, and it’s true now.</p>
<p>^Without getting gory, we had all that when I was in college. I think OP’s question is legit, but I also see that many options are available to kids who don’t want that scene. I do think, though, that any one poster’s anecdotes (about one school, one friend’s experience) can’t speak for the variety of options many schools do offer. </p>
<p>I also think OP might be served well if she posted on one of the specific college threads, to see what some current students think.</p>
<p>collegealum314, I believe there’s one frat on MIT’s campus that’s known to be tamer than the others; it might be that way on other campuses, as well.</p>
<p>The talk of wellness housing reminded me that Penn has wellness housing and it’s been a great fit for a young friend of ours. We visited her dorm (my son and I) and met another student there, and it seemed to work out really well for this group of students who wanted to have a great time but wanted to do it without drinking.</p>
<p>So, I think wellness dorms can be good options and truly, I don’t think there’s a problem of being labeled, particularly on a large campus. Maybe no one cares? I don’t know, but it didn’t seem to bother our young friend in the least. She’s having a blast at Penn.</p>
<p>^Sure, there are many different frats with many different reputations. </p>
<p>But it’s a safer bet that there is less of a drinking culture in the dorms. You can still go to the open parties held at the frats. </p>
<p>I am assuming that the eating clubs/finals clubs have some open parties too that are open to all students.</p>
<p>I am not sure some schools are better than other schools at this sober thing when you consider the top schools. someone mentioned a naked freshman walking around MIT campus last month who was rushed to the hospital because he was high on something. </p>
<p>You have to go in assuming drinking happens on all campuses and then ask if they have any special accommodations for someone who wants sober accommodations if that is a requirement. Expecting a completely sober campus in any top 30 school is a pipedream.</p>
<p>Yep, I heard that story, too, texas. Sad, but not surprising, though why people want to waste a good education like that doesn’t really make sense to me.</p>
<p>I think OP asks a fair question–if she wants to know what top schools are less focused on drinking than others. I think part of the answer is to look at what drives the social scene of campus–if it’s frats (or similar organizations like eating clubs and finals clubs), it’s likely that drinking will be a bigger element of campus culture. If it’s off-campus apartment parties and clubbing, I think there will be plenty of drinking, but probably less binge drinking. If social life is focused on dorm parties and (most importantly) on campus organizations, then I think drinking will be somewhat less.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, all the top colleges will have plenty of campus organizations that don’t focus on drinking–musical, political, sports, religious and many others.</p>
<p>Marsian,</p>
<p>“Phenomenal advice, and explanation!” (others gave great advice too, so I apologize if you feel left out, but I wanted to comment on one particular part of Marsian’s post). </p>
<p>“Live in substance-free housing. For almost everyone I know who has done this, it has been a godsend. Substance-free housing is sometimes called “wellness” housing, because it also emphasizes healthy eating and exercise – pulling in more athletically-oriented people. Some “wellness” groups go on camping trips, field intramural teams, or sponsor/run in 5Ks.”</p>
<p>That sounds terrific! And my kid likes everything from intramural sports to some outdoor stuff (relatively athletic but nowhere near “college team” athletic), but is always up for a game of Ultimate, or tennis, or soccer, or hiking, etc. But then again, I know most of those things do NOT likely occur on a Friday or Saturday night! </p>
<p>Question: Since I personally only recently heard of a few schools even having substance free dorms, how many actually have “wellness ones”? Does this type of info readily show in college online websites or is this they type of info they don’t typically disseminate until after students have accepted admission? And how do they advocate “healthy eating”? Like by seminars and such, or do they have special meal plans? Just curious… (I don’t think I would want my child to HAVE to be segregated with their meals unless each dorm had its own dining hall…)</p>
<p>Hunt, you hit it right on the money! “I think OP asks a fair question–if she wants to know what top schools are less focused on drinking than others.” Yes, that is exactly what I meant! </p>
<p>I am not seeking a SOBER school or necessarily a Sober Dorm (though that option might be nice") - I mean, my kid is “normal” - super bright, yes, but semi-athletic, interested in a variety of stuff ranging from going to see a play, possibly even Acting in one, intramurals, etc. but having interests and having ample “open availability” of these other social options as well as a large peer group to share it with is what I seek. (And is what did NOT exist at the school I attended).</p>
<p>I mean, it’s great if a place like Princeton has 10 theater groups, but if one does not choose to ACT in one, but just view, will they easily find “like minded peers” who want to catch a show/movie and ice cream on a Sat. night or are the vast majority of their social peers going to be “at an eating club partying” and the non-social ones holed up in their rooms doing their own thing - reading, studying, (sleeping?), spending hours playing starcraft on their computer? I guess I seek a happy medium - between social kids, and OVERLY Social (partier) kids, and I seek a school in which the culture, atmosphere, and administration foster such. IS THIS A UTOPIAN SCHOOL WHICH DOESN’T EXIST? </p>
<p>And if so, duly noted, but then WHICH of the Ivy’s or Ivy like school’s next come CLOSEST to this ideal??</p>
<p>STEVEMA - can you please name a few of the colleges at which you noted “Wellness dorms”? Thanks!! And were, (as another poster suggested) many of the students there ones who were “recovering” from past substance abuse??!!! That would have never dawned on me had another poster not suggested it.</p>
<p>Re drinking in dorms vs frats: nowadays, the practice of “pregaming” is prevalent. Kids drink in the dorm --often shots of vodka or other hard alcohol–before going out to parties or clubbing. It’s cheaper, and of course underage kids won’t have to worry about showing ID. It seems that many of the alcohol poisoning cases start with someone pregaming in their dorm. Many fraternities serve only beer. It’s more difficult to consume enough of it to kill yourself, but perhaps not if you arrive after having had 10 shots of vodka.</p>
<p>I was in the college class of 75. The drinking age was 18, and pot was plentiful. There was plenty of drinking, but I never heard of a case of alcohol poisoning, much less a death from drinking. I really think that things have changed and it is not overblown.</p>
<p>BTW, I know of HS kids who have been confronted with drunken, vomiting hosts when visiting several of the top LACs that have no Greek life. The drinking just moves into the dorms, and is more likely to involve hard liquor.</p>
<p>It seems that just about all schools have substance free housing these days.</p>
<p>At Yale, most kids drink, but many don’t drink a lot. Almost all of them are heavily involved in campus activities, and those activities often have things on weekends. There are always plenty of things to do–plays, lectures, concerns, etc.</p>
<p>Thanks, lifelearner! The way to find out about wellness or substance-free dorms/halls is to go to the housing information on a university’s website. If the housing information mentions learning communities or living-learning communities, click on that to see what’s available. Here are some examples from my state, so that you can get an idea of what they’re about:</p>
<p>UNC: [Substance-Free</a> Environments | UNC Chapel Hill Housing and Residential Education](<a href=“http://housing.unc.edu/residence-life/living-learning-communities/substance-free-environments.html]Substance-Free”>http://housing.unc.edu/residence-life/living-learning-communities/substance-free-environments.html)</p>
<p>Appalachian: [Living</a> Free Community - University Housing](<a href=“http://housing.appstate.edu/index.php?module=pagesmith&uop=view_page&id=37]Living”>http://housing.appstate.edu/index.php?module=pagesmith&uop=view_page&id=37)</p>
<p>Duke: [url=<a href=“Duke Student Affairs”>Duke Student Affairs]Wellness</a> on West | Duke Student Affairs<a href=“upper%20class%20students%20only”>/url</a></p>
<p>As for wellness communities that emphasize healthy eating, most do so through seminars on nutrition, cooking classes, and group cooking events. I’m not aware of any learning communities that have separate dining facilities.</p>
<p>Even if a university doesn’t feature living-learning communities on its website, you can always ask a housing rep, but they may not like to answer if they don’t provide wellness/substance-free housing. We visited one college that had not mentioned it, so my child asked whether it was available. The housing rep, in a very patronizing manner, said, “ALL our housing is substance-free, because we have underage students in the dorms.” When I followed up, she acted as if she had never heard of the concept of a substance-free learning community. Later, on a tour, another parent asked our student guide about emergency services on campus. The guide (probably forgetting that she was talking to parents?) responded that the service is mostly used for cases of alcohol poisoning. Needless to say, that college would not have been a good fit.</p>
<p>Harvard and Yale don’t have substance free housing because they don’t believe in students segregating themselves by interest. The house/residential college system is predicated on the idea that you bring together students from all disciplines with as much diversity as the university itself and the cross-pollination that occurs in the halls and the dining rooms is as much a part of your education as classes. Some of the other Ivies do have various versions of substance free dorms. Stanford ran an editorial last spring advocating a pilot program. </p>
<p>The finals clubs at Harvard consist of about 10% of the male undergrads and 5% of the female ones. In four years at Harvard I only met one final club member (that I know of). The male clubs have been around for over 100 years ago, the female clubs were all founded well after I graduated. They are not recognized officially by Harvard and are easy to avoid.</p>
<p>lifelearner-I think most schools have a wellness dorm or at least a floor that is substance free. I don’t know that we haven’t seen any that don’t have one. They just might be called something other than “wellness” dorms/floors.</p>
<p>Are you seriously telling me the school you attended had no activities outside of drinking for students? I find that very hard to believe. What you need to look for are schools were 90+% of the kids live on campus, preferably all 4 years and you will find schools that have plenty of activities for kids to partake in other than drinking. </p>
<p>Consolation–the difference from when you went to school is that it was swept under the rug. I had an older sister that was in college the same time as you and there were kids that died from excessive drinking, etc. back then, however, it wasn’t front page news like it is now.</p>
<p>OP- there is a long time poster here (now maybe just a lurker) who goes by Mini who works professionally in the field of addiction and substance abuse, and who compiles statistics on binge drinking for a government agency (Mini, forgive me if I have some of the details mixed up.)</p>
<p>As far as I recall, there are sorting elements you can use in evaluating schools- urban schools have less binge drinking than rural ones is the only one I can recall right now. I also think that Wellesley, Barnard, Bryn Mawr and the other top tier women’s only colleges have less drinking and more of the fun stuff on the weekends.</p>
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<p>While I’m willing to bet Consolation’s school was indeed on the less-hard-partying end of the spectrum, I think that SteveMA’s point about it not being front page news is spot-on. In “our day,” I remember 3 things - the alcohol death that I mentioned (drunk kid lying down on a major road and getting hit by a car), an attempted break-in and sexual assault that occurred in a sorority house, and a suicide. None of these things elicited a lot of commotion or attention other than from personal friends of those affected; it was sort of a “shrug, that’s a bummer.” These days, most universities would do one or more of the following things: provide specific counseling not only for friends of those affected, but other students who might be concerned; have RA’s or student life officials give talks on the topic and how to avoid similar bad fates; pull together the student community in a ceremony to mourn the deaths of the students (whether drinking or suicide); issue flyers; and so forth. These kinds of things gets a LOT more attention today than they did back then, IMO, in terms of a college having a coordinated response to the community.</p>
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<li><p>The mini stuff: rural vs. urban, small vs. large, residential vs. commuter, young students vs. older, rich vs. not rich. The more a school trends to the elements left of the “vs.”, the more likely it is to have a high proportion of people who drink a lot.</p></li>
<li><p>The knock on substance-free housing: People have lots of reasons to be there, including for many the fact that their parents wish they would be substance-free. Or people who are happy not to abuse substances in their rooms, but who venture out to other dorms to get wasted and return to their home dorms to vomit. In the end, it turns out that what matters is compatibility and comfort with your roommate(s). And two people who signed up for substance-free housing are not necessarily more likely to be compatible and comfortable with each other than either would be with random kids from non-sub-free dorms.</p></li>
<li><p>The University of Chicago. It has plenty of drinking and drugs, but it’s much lower-key in that regard than other colleges.</p></li>
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<p>^So, does that mean stay away from Dartmouth?
I’m still on the side that says you need to explore activities on campus (always some section on the web site) that draw kids away from drinking, and their strengths in numbers. I don’t want to start an argument, but of course they drink in dorms, if there aren’t frats for parties, you choose not to go to frat parties, and drinking is not allowed in other spaces on campus, at dances, etc.</p>