Need Help Finding Small LAC Safety Schools (I know you're sick of this Q. but, help!)

College Search & Selection
1

<p>My daughter believes her list is complete. She's already taxed by the number of applications, interviews, and tests, and doesn't want to add more to the list. I'm worried that she doesn't have enough safeties. Would love your advice -- especially if you could suggest schools or ease my fears? I'd love her to apply to UMass Amherst but she hates the party school vibe and feels like it's too big. </p>

<p>What other schools are similar to the ones she's visited and likes that might be a safety for her?</p>

<p>About her application:
- She's going to need almost all of her costs covered by financial aid, work story and loans in order to be able to attend school. I'll only be able to contribute a few thousand dollars per year.</p>

<ul>
<li><p>She lives in Mass.</p></li>
<li><p>Her superscore SAT Is: Reading - 740, Math - 570, Writing - 700</p></li>
<li><p>Her unweighted GPA at a public school is about 3.8. She's in the top 7 percent of her class.</p></li>
<li><p>She took 2 AP classes her junior year and is taking 3 her senior year. The others are all honors classes. Math is not her best subject and she is only going as far as Pre-Calculus.</p></li>
<li><p>She has a few ECs. She is captain of the Xcountry team and has been involved in student government and a couple of other clubs for most of her four years.</p></li>
<li><p>She's undecided about a major but favoring English. We'd love a place with very good college advising programs.</p></li>
<li><p>She wants a smaller school (under 5,000 if possible) and in the east if possible</p></li>
</ul>

<p>ON HER LIST/VISITED & LOVED
- Mount Holyoke College
- Connecticut College
- Dickinson College
- Kenyon
- Wesleyan
- St. Lawrence University
- Wheaton (MA)</p>

<p>ON HER LIST/HASN'T VISITED YET
- Grinnell (still thinking about)
- Holy Cross (others have strongly recommended; she's unsure)
- Goucher (safety?)
- Clark (safety?)</p>

<p>SCHOOLS SHE VISITED BUT DID NOT LIKE
- St. Michael's in Vermont -- turned off immediately / not sure if it was the religious affiliation or the fact the buildings were pretty worn down or some other intangible factor
- Ithaca College -- she thought she'd love it but it felt too big/cold and students had to choose a major earlier than she wants
- Skidmore -- she thought she'd love it but couldn't get over a "slytherin" feeling, although she gave high marks to the dining facility for its Gluten Free friendliness.
- University of Vermont -- too big but loved town and the university
- Hampshire College -- too unstructured / felt like she needed "grades"
- Gettysburg -- too much of a party school</p>

2

<p>If she would consider coming to Ohio for Kenyon, what about Denison, Ohio Wesleyan and/or College of Wooster as slightly less selective options? Also, what about Allegheny in western PA?</p>

3

<p>Denison - about 45 minutes from Kenyon and a bit higher accept rate, also GREAT FA/merit.</p>

4

<p>lol, great minds :)</p>

5

<p>Yep - Denison is high on my D’s list - she has visited twice - once in Junior year and once this Fall when she interviewed and sat in on a class. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for an admit + merit there.</p>

6

<p>Knox College in Galesburg, Illinois, would be a great choice for her. It has a fantastic writing program, an excellent literary magazine, and is generous with merit aid too. I think your daughter would be a good candidate. Knox has a fun, welcoming campus vibe, and it’s in a decent-enough town only a couple hours from Chicago by train. My son visited and loved it. (It was just too close to home for him.)</p>

7

<p>

</p>

<p>What is your Expected Family Contribution?
([FinAid</a> | Calculators | QuickEFC](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org/calculators/quickefc.phtml]FinAid”>http://www.finaid.org/calculators/quickefc.phtml))</p>

<p>Is there a non-custodial parent in the picture? If so, is s/he able and willing to contribute?</p>

<p>If you can cover your EFC (properly calculated to include the contribution of any non-custodial parent, as appropriate), then I think your list is pretty good. However, if there is a large gap between your budget and your EFC then you may need to rebuild that list, because even the less selective ones are very expensive.</p>

8

<p>…just one more thing about Denison if there is a non-custodial parent in the picture. They are a FAFSA-only school. It’s kind of unusual for a school so generous with institutional aid to not require Profile/NCP but there it is.</p>

9

<p>She needs to apply to UMass Amherst as a financial safety or Mass College of Liberal Arts.
At UMass Amherst she might get into the honors program and it would help provide her with a sense of being in a smaller environment. They have separate housing which I think would help reduce her exposure to the party types.
<a href=“https://www.honors.umass.edu/honors-residence-life[/url]”>https://www.honors.umass.edu/honors-residence-life&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>We told our son he needed to apply to at least one UMass and he ended up getting a full scholarship to UMass Lowell and a partial to UMass Amherst. Once he investigated UML a little more he was really tempted to go. He never gave Amherst a second chance though :-(</p>

10

<p>Union College, Wellesley…</p>

11

<p>Westfield State University is a very good Mass public in a nice city with a cute campus and it is smaller. It is actually close in distance to UMass Amherst (closer than most people think) and the Pres is wonderful and doing a lot to bring Westfield into some sort of cross - registration thing with UMass. Bridgewater state would get her closer to Boston, if she wanted to be close to a large city, but is still smaller than UMass. I didn’t want my D applying to UMass-A because it continues to have such a strong local rep as a party school that I didn’t want that to be the first thing potential employers from the area would think of when they saw her resume. It’s a great school, but every year the news is filled with stories related to UMass Amherst that aren’t very positive…There are plenty of other schools that end up just as affordable, if not more affordable after scholarships and grants, that DONT end up all over the news all the time to choose from around here.</p>

12

<p>

I really like these suggestions. Allegheny was one I thought of as well.</p>

<p>Earlham in Indiana would be well worth a look. It’s a bit quirky but not obnoxiously so, and the friendly Quaker environment is great. </p>

<p>Cornell, Beloit, Lawrence, Kalamazoo…lots of great options in the Midwest. The PNW schools (Lewis & Clark, Whitman, UPS, etc.) would be worth a look too. In the South, there’s Hendrix, Elon, Warren Wilson, NCF, Oxford/Emory. </p>

<p>Given that financial aid is so important, it’d be worth sending at least a couple of applications to top-flight LACs. The best single-sex schools (e.g. Bryn Mawr) tend to be a bit less selective than their coed peers and provide good financial aid. Financial aid becomes more iffy as you go down the academic food chain, though merit $$$ becomes more likely…the LACs other posters and I are recommending are good, but they are not necessarily affordable (at least, not without large loans) for lower/middle class families.</p>

13

<p>Thanks so much for all the thoughtful responses… Can’t tell you how much I appreciate it.</p>

<p>I believe I will be able to cover the EFC. (Yes, there’s a living non-custodial parent but he’s not involved in her life nor does he contribute any support. Sadly, his life is a mess.)</p>

<p>I agree that she needs to add a Mass state school but I think she’d be unhappy - UMass Amherst has such great resources with the 5 College consortium that I wish I could convince her. Westfield State has been suggested more than once as a good option; I think it just feels too close. She probably has to choose one of these. I don’t know anything about the Mass College of Liberal Arts. I’ve never even heard of it.</p>

<p>We did a drive-thru of Denison on our way to Kenyon. It was raining that day – and wasn’t on our list at all – but even so my daughter and I were charmed by the campus and the kids we stopped to speak with. It too has a reputation as a party school – and it’s very far from home. Kenyon and Grinnell are on her list but I’m not thrilled about it. I just negotiated to have Occidental removed. </p>

<p>We drove through Union on our way to Skidmore. My daughter liked what she saw – and what she read about it – but I was uncomfortable with the location of the school and we elected not to do the tour. </p>

<p>I’ll look into Knox – seems like a fabulous school and suited to her interests. Would it be a safety school for her? What’s the neighborhood like? Most of her choices have been rural or suburban. Knox is urban — and far away.</p>

<p>I like Wooster too. It wasn’t on our radar when we visited Ohio but might be worth considering, despite the distance. (It’s not just the cutting of strings that’s an issue, but the additional expense of travel that has me concerned.)</p>

<p>Wellesley would be amazing but we’ve decided we have enough stretches on the list and Wellesley feels like it might be one.</p>

<p>Do any of you know anything about these schools? I’m looking for maybe one more safety/very solid target. Campus/residential life? Academics? Aid packages? Differences between them?</p>

<ul>
<li>Goucher</li>
<li>Hobart & William Smith</li>
<li>Ursinus College</li>
<li>Mulenberg</li>
</ul>

14

<p>@Warblersrule: Mt. Holyoke, which she loved, is on her list. I’ll speak with her again about Bryn Mawr. What do you think about the schools I initially listed in her terms of their ability to give significant financial aid? I think it’s late in the game to begin pitching Vassar or other top-flight LACs that would be a stretch. Or am I wrong?</p>

15

<p>

</p>

<p>I think she can count on getting into Knox. It is right within the town (not city!) of Galesburg. It is a stable midwestern town that prides itself on only having local businesses in the downtown area (i.e., they refused a permit to Starbucks a few years back). It is NOT a hopping urban center by any means, but Chicago–one of the best and most fun cities in the country–is an easy train ride away, and the kids can get very inexpensive tickets if they choose to go for the day or the weekend.</p>

16

<p>Thanks, Sally305.</p>

17

<p>If you can cover your EFC, and if there is not an uncooperative NCP in the picture with significant earnings/assets, then the original list should be pretty good. However, I think warblersrule captured an important issue. The less selective safety schools often are less likely to cover 100% of need. Therefore, a good admission safety won’t necessarily be a good financial safety for a high-need applicant. One way to hedge against this risk is to look at Southern, Midwestern, and women’s colleges that meet full need, but don’t have as much application traffic as the most famous New England LACs. A few schools with religious affiliations might also make good “contrarian” choices. The idea is to use other people’s biases as jiu jitsu in your own favor.</p>

<p>Here is a list of full-need, need-blind colleges:
[Need-blind</a> admission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission]Need-blind”>Need-blind admission - Wikipedia)
LACs (and small univerities) on the list that might deserve a closer look (more to less selective):</p>

<p>Davidson (Southern), Brandeis (traditionally Jewish), Vassar (women’s)
Barnard (women’s), Smith* (women’s)
Grinnell (Midwestern), Macalester* (Midwestern)
Holy Cross (Roman Catholic)
Mt. Holyoke* (women’s), Bryn Mawr* (women’s), Richmond (Southern)
Lawrence University** (Midwestern)
Beloit** (Midwestern), Knox** (Midwestern)</p>

<ul>
<li>Macalester, Bryn Mawr, Smith, and Mt. Holyoke are not on the Wiki list of need-blind, full-need schools; however, according to recent CDS files, they do cover 100% of demonstrated need.</li>
</ul>

<p>** according to the Lawrence CDS for 2011-12, on average it only meets 89% of need
** according to the Knox CDS for 2011-12, on average it only meets 90.4% of need
** according to the Beloit CDS for 2011-12, on average it meets 92% of need</p>

<p>Bryn Mawr, Smith, and Mt. Holyoke are consortium colleges. This creates opportunities to cross-register for classes at neighboring schools. Barnard is part of Columbia University, which also means Barnard students have many more classes available to them than students have at most other LACs.</p>

18

<p>Other schools that might be worth a look :</p>

<p>Colorado College (Western), Whitman (Western)
Rhodes (Southern)
Muhlenberg (Mid-Atlantic)
(These schools are not full-need, but do meet more than 90% of need on average.)</p>

<p>Centre College (KY) meets about 88% of need on average.
Agnes Scott (Southern, women’s) meets about 87% of need on average.
Goucher and Ursinus appear to meet less than 85% of need on average.</p>

19

<p>Given your EFC, I think private colleges that will meet your need are best. Public college are less generous. Massachusetts doesn’t have a public LAC that will serve a student of your Ds caliber well. SUNY has some like Geneseo or New Paltz, and they are only a couple of thousand more expensive than UMASS for MA residents, but it’s still a pretty good sized bill. Truman State in Missouri is a really good public honors LAC with total cost of $20K. Admission would be automatic for your D and if she applied by Dec 1, she would qualify for automatic scholarships. Even with all of that, I don’t know if it would be affordable, but it’s worth checking out. </p>

<p>I think a problem is that private LACs as a rule tend to have less predictable admissions because they can’t handle the variation in yield. </p>

<p>For the safety school I would look at the list of need-blind schools, and pick the ones that have Early Action so that you have at least one in the bag before all of the other deadlines pass. If it’s one of the schools that has good financial aid, you have a safety. </p>

<p>These schools include
Boston College (apply by 11/1, find out mid-December)
Beloit (apply by 11/1 - notification 12/15, or apply by 12/1 notification 1/15) - this is a great option if you can get your school to act fast enough.
Kalamazoo (apply by 11/20, find out 12/20) - still enough time to add schools for 1/1
Lawrence (apply by 12/1, find out 1/15 - perhaps too late for many other options)
Ursinus (12/1 deadline, but will respond within 4 weeks of complete application) so if you do it soon, you’ll get a decision in time. </p>

<p>Lawrence and Beloit are full-need, both in Wisconsin. Beloit is about 80 miles from both O’hare and Milwaukee. Jet Blue flies low cost to O’Hare and Southwest now flies low cost to Milwaukee. Lawrence is closer to Green Bay and is harder to get to. </p>

<p>Having Beloit as a safety (after she’s admitted of course) will give you both great comfort.</p>

20

<p>^ EA + full-need, at a school where your kid’s stats are in the upper 25% of enrolled students, is indeed a great combination. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that “full need” means the school claims to cover 100% of determined need. The determination is of course the school’s, not yours, and you have to be admitted to get anything at all. Also keep in mind that the percentages of covered need are averages, and that the full-sticker COA is not equal at all these schools. </p>

<p>So even though Centre College only meets 88% of need on average, it’s a less expensive less selective school than Wesleyan. A school like Centre might be motivated to cover 100% of generously-determined need for a very strong applicant.</p>