<p>Bassdad and violadad thanks for the help. the info has helped a LOT. oh and for sure I practice well. I try not to establish bad habits and if I do I fix them.</p>
<p>Actually, the way UCLA works in any of the arts (audition or portfolio driven) is that if you succeed in the audition/portfolio (which depends how many spots, how many students, the level of competition, etc.), then you need only to meet the UCLA minimum academic requirements (for CA residents, 3.0 GPA; not sure about out-of-state, and I forget the test scores). This was what we heard going in, and it was confirmed on the Arts Tour and Q & A. It’s different than virtually any other school my son applied to.</p>
<p>ETA: This is not to say that UCLA music students don’t have high GPA’s. They do. Our tour guide told us the classical students had, as a group, typically had the highest GPA’s at UCLA. I laughed to myself at how her comment left the jazz students out.</p>
<p>You are receiving wonderful advice. I will throw out some alternatives that are somewhat less discussed.</p>
<p>First, we are from an upper midwest town of about 10,000 people. Son’s experiences have almost exclusively been with local music teachers except for a couple of weeks at composition camps in the summer and all-state choir. You and he are in the same neighborhood of experiences pre-college I think. He was pretty good around here, but we didn’t know how he might stack up in the broader music world. He plays piano really well but not conservatory level and sings and plays guitar pretty well so he didn’t fit many traditional music (classical and jazz) programs where you probably would. Biggest strength is songwriting (to be distinguished from composing).</p>
<p>He is currently a freshman Singer/Songwriter in the Popular Music Performance program at USC. There is a freshman saxaphone player in the program who is exceptional. Also an electric violinist. There are also at least two people in the program who are also part of the Jazz program at USC. I suspect Berklee in Boston has similar diversity in its music program. </p>
<p>Son’s experiences have been exceptional at USC in terms of industry contacts etc. PM me if you would like more on that. Midwest conservatism prevents listing them out here. I have listed some on the USC board. </p>
<p>Most University music programs are geared to classical and jazz and the majority of USC’s music students and faculty are too. But there are other avenues of study that are rigorous, challenging and available. If you are interested, you should look into those too. </p>
<p>One other thing to consider if these other avenues are ones you would consider is attending “Grammy Camp” in the summer run by the Grammy Foundation and held at USC with a fair number of USC faculty I think. There is an audition process. After son was accepted at USC they sent him information about coming last summer but we didn’t want to spend the $ since we would be spending a lot for college which would do the same and more I felt (he would have liked to have gone). I think it is a couple thousand $, but they might be flexible if your parent’s income makes it prohibitive. Never hurts to ask. </p>
<p>You are well ahead of where my son was as a junior in looking into and planning for your musical education. Best wishes and have fun.</p>
<p>Raddad, every time I read your posts, I wish my son had applied to popular music as well as studio/jazz guitar. If he’s lucky enough to get accepted to Thornton, I hope he’ll be able to be one of those jazz students who “crosses over” a bit!</p>
<p>Saxyboy-</p>
<p>I know this sounds like a stupid question, but have you talked to your teacher about this, about what level you are at and so forth? The other suggestion I have to try might be to ask your teacher if there is anyone he keeps in contact with who might be willing to do an evaluation on your playing (since you live in alaska, might be easier to do it via CD recording). He might be able to arrange for someone who taught him and who still teaches at a program to give you an evaluation (yes, it would be limited, but it is better then nothing). Even getting an evaluation like that is not perfect (since teachers are not machines, they have biases and preferences, what to one person is perfect playing to another is boring <em>smile</em>), it isn’t the be all and end all, but gives you an idea.</p>
<p>I think the big question for you is what do you want to do? Do you see going into Jazz music as the be all and end all, with all that entails? Or do you like the idea of being more flexible, able to experiment? Your ability obviously determines a lot, but there is also what you want to go into, too. You might be talented enough, hypothetically, to get into a decent classical conservatory on sax, but would you want to do that? You might get into a good jazz program, and find out that going into jazz performance doesn’t hit you. The key to actually moving forward in music is finding what it is that you want to do IMO, I have seen a lot of really talented classical music students, who had all the technique and the like, who ended up flopping because they were doing something they didn’t really want to do. I think once you are able to at least see the question a little clearer, your path will be easier to find:)</p>
<p>jazzmom - not to hijack the post, but I think that if your son decides to go to USC there are a couple of probable options.</p>
<p>First contact Chris Sampson who runs the program (who by the way is a blues guitarist I think). Wouldn’t surprise me if he sits in on the guitar auditions for studio guitar since he is a guitarist and has a title of Assistant Dean of Thornton or something like that. If not immediately able to be in Popular Music then maybe the next year I would think he could slide in. They did not have any real guitar phenoms in popular music this year so I would think that Chris as a guitarist would like some. Biggest things in first year of popular music that I think might be different is weekly popular music performance class where they have assigned bands and perform 2-3 songs for the teachers and are critiqued and popular music forum which is weekly and brings in phenomenal music industry people to talk to them. If they don’t let him do the performance class he should ask if he can at least do the forum if he is interested in that type of thing at all. Also songwriting was a fall semester class if he is interested in songwriting at all (I don’t think all of the popular music kids in the class were experienced songwriters)</p>
<p>Might actually be ok to express this interest to Chris now. Not sure what it would hurt.</p>
<p>The popular music kids are forming bands all the time. Son should reach out a little and let people know he wants to play in a band or two and start getting to know some of the folks. It is a fairly small group and it won’t be too hard. The more he can show his ability to play and ability to work well and have fun the easier it will be of course. </p>
<p>BTW there is an amazing studio guitar major who got to get up and perform with Steve Miller at the concert this fall and ripped it up. There is enough cross pollination between jazz and popular music that they don’t leave exceptional people from jazz out of the popular music opportunities I think.</p>
<p>Best Wishes. Saw your son was accepted at Berklee which is a great accomplishment already :)</p>
<p>Hi im a a freshman and im doing a research project for my mom. Do im looking into colleges where they have a good program for the classes i would like to major in like dance music drama, etc. I was wondering if u could help me find a college that could help me reach my goal.</p>
<p>oh ok good. cause I will admit it I have been fairly lax about completing hw for school core subjects. i was thinking of going to UCLA b/c my teacher went there and said the composition program is pretty good. thanks for that info, it will help me a LOT!. thanks : )</p>
<p>Thanks raddad for the info on USC. One of the guest artists at a music camp was named Jason Goldman, who teaches at USC. That was one of my option for college also, but I wasn’t sure. thanks for the advice</p>
<p>musicprnt thanks for these ideas and I will be sure to keep them in mind. I have asked my music teacher what his opinion is. He is one of those ppl who are into the music because of its beauty and that I should just try to do the best to give justice to the music I play. He has said that I am better than a lot of players, but there are definitely people better. so good advice but doesn’t really answer my question on where I should go. He does have a few contacts though I could look into. Thanks for this advice I didn’t think about that. Thank you</p>
<p>one thing I want to point out is that even for alaska I am in a very rural area. there is only about 3000 ppl in an area the size of maine that makes up my community. so VERY small. A lot of these options are very helpful, but not all of them are realistic for my area. Just asking that you keep that in mind thats all. I hope I am not being annoying in saying this. Thanks for the input everybody. It has been really helpful.</p>
<p>Saxyboy, you are not even close to being annoying. Keep asking questions until you have all the information you need.</p>
<p>I don’t know how you broached the subject with your teacher to get the sort of answers he gave you. Maybe you asked all the right questions. Just in case you didn’t, let me point out that when asking someone to evaluate you playing, it helps to be as specific as possible with your questions. If you give them something open ended like, “What do you think of my playing?” or “How do I compare with others?” without telling them why you are asking, you might get the kind of answer that your teacher gave you. If you were to say something like, “I want to continue studying music in college, possibly as a performance or composition major. Am I adequately prepared to do that? Can you recommend any teachers and schools in particular? What should I do in the next year to improve my chances of acceptance?” you stand a better chance of getting helpful information.</p>
<p>This in reply to iemobandgeek (post 27 within this thread) who wrote </p>
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<p>As a high school freshman, you may have time to position yourself for a program that would prepare you for one of the performing arts.</p>
<p>Without knowing any of your background and training within the disciplines, it is virtually impossible to begin to suggest schools, so I’m going to point you in a number of directions for you to begin looking.</p>
<p>First you need to clarify in your own mind which of these disciplines you wish to concentrate on, and begin some sort of rigorous training if you haven’t already. Your spectrum is far too broad, and the one place where you might be able to achieve a performance degree encompassing music (vocal performance), dance, and drama/theater/acting would be in the discipline of musical theater. There is a dedicated CC forum here [Musical</a> Theater Major - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/]Musical”>Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums), and there are a number of “am I good enough” and “where do I start” threads there that will give you the background.</p>
<p>There are also separate CC forums for dance [Dance</a> Major - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/dance-major/]Dance”>Dance Major - College Confidential Forums) and drama/acting [Theater/Drama</a> Majors - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/]Theater/Drama”>Theater/Drama Majors - College Confidential Forums) and each is the best source for discipline specific information of an informed and accurate caliber.</p>
<p>Within the music major forum I’d suggest you begin here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html</a> and then read this, which is pertinent for all performance disciplines <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html</a></p>
<p>One of your other posts asks how competitive or how much does Juilliard weigh their dance audition. Honestly, the results of that audition alone constitutes the majority of the basis for an admittance decision. Same for music, same for drama.</p>
<p>You will need to know the differences between audition based admissions, audition driven admissions, and audition/academic admissions. You will need to know the differences between BA, BM, and BFA degree variations. You will also need reasonable and accurate professional assessment(s) as to how your talents relate to competition within each institution’s audition pools.</p>
<p>There are programs that would allow you to take coursework, potentially minor in any of the fields you cite in conjunction with an academic degree pursuit… They typically will not provide the training or background that an undergrad program designed to provide preprofessional training for a performance career would.</p>
<p>saxy-
Bassdad made a lot clearer what I was thinking about when I wrote to you, that you have to ask specific questions. Asking how you stand up against other people is a very generic question, are you talking about other kids your age who play sax? Are you talking against the population of kids your age thinking about heading into music? </p>
<p>And this also goes back to asking yourself what you want to do. Questions are never annoying, and they are never wrong (unless asked with the specific desire to irritate people, like some ■■■■■ posts I have seen at times), questions are how you get answers. The biggest questions I think you need to ask are of yourself, because those questions and the answers that come to you are what are going to really guide you in what you do. For example, you seem to want to be more a music generalist, rather then going into a tighter field with narrower focus (such as classical or jazz sax performance, or classical composition). The alternative programs in pop/alternative music might work (and it is getting interesting, Berklee for example just added a program in so called roots music, that includes fiddling,bluegrass and so forth) because I suspect they give more latitude. Other on here may know, but some schools have programs in academic studies that allow people to tailor their own coursework, maybe some music programs have the same kind of thing, that would allow you to tailor your program to fit your own vision. Standard performance degrees, unless I am totally mistaken, are pretty narrowly focused on the area someone is in, and that may not fit what you want to do.</p>
<p>The reason your teacher is so valuable is that he probably has some idea how music works in ‘the real world’, and he may be able to help you frame your own questions, to figure out what you want to do. I realize living in a relatively rural area has its disadvantages, but the issues you face are generally faced by most people looking to get into music, whether in rural alaska or in NYC. We live in suburban NJ, not exactly a rural area, and trying to navigate our son’s path to music hasn’t been easy. What it takes, wherever you live, is finding people who know what the music world is like and can help guide you to what is real, to help at least find people who know who can help. It is going to be harder where you are, simply because it is a rural area, but hopefully through your teacher you can find guidance or at least find those he thinks can guide you.</p>
<p>Saxyboy, feel free to pick the collective brain. </p>
<p>And just to let you know that being from Alaska doesn’t necessarily limit your options, there was a peer of my son’s while he was at Hartt who was from the forty-ninth state. </p>
<p>Can’t recall if he (she I think) was a bassist or composition student, but I asked my son if he knew who had the vehicle with the Alaska plates. He then proceeded to tell me the story about how they drove to CT from Alaska (and back) through Canada every academic year. Toting a bass would help explain driving rather than flying.</p>
<p>Replying to post 27: see if you can find or order the book “Creative Colleges,” which has listings for art, music, theater and dance. Also, Peterson’s has guides for Performing Arts and Visual Arts.</p>
<p>For saxyboy, maybe you could write a little more about your composing.</p>
<p>If you want to apply for composition, you still have time to think about putting a good application together. You will need 2-4 scores, if you decide to apply to a conservatory or BM program. Having actual musicians play your pieces and recording them (as opposed to a Finale version, for instance) can be really helpful. You usually would send scores and CD’s by December 1st, along with a music resume, transcript, maybe a list of compositions written. Then, there would be “auditions” in Feb. or March, usually consisting of interviews and theory placement exams.</p>
<p>The application process for a sax performance major would be different, as others may have described, with submission of CD’s and the rest also by Dec. 1st, then performance auditions in Feb. or March.</p>
<p>If, instead of conservatory, you are interested in college programs, then the deadline would be later, and chances are, there would be no auditions. In that case, you would call the schools and ask about submitting an arts supplement, and what they would want from you. You would probably do the entire regular application, and then put together a supplement, perhaps with a music resume, info on awards (include runner up!), then a CD with your sax playing AND a composition. In the case of a college, you would keep these CD’s short or let the college know which 3 minutes of each segment to listen to, because unlike conservatories, it is not all about the music, and both admissions and music department folks might not like it if they are expected to listen to long pieces.</p>
<p>It is hard when you have more than one talent. Honest! If you like both playing and writing music, then you might not want to specialize in one or the other just yet. At top conservatories, you would have to focus mainly on one thing, although you could start with, say, jazz performance and then add composing in your second year, for a double major.</p>
<p>If you go the college route, check for things like distribution requirements, and how many courses are required for the major. With your many hours of practice, you might prefer to be in a BM program rather than a BA, and might prefer a music school/conservatory. Having many distribution requirements can make it hard to focus fully on music. Some people like having that “broad” education, and some don’t.</p>
<p>Most colleges do not have performance majors. Some do have BM’s, but a lot of schools have music majors for a BA that are academic in nature, meaning, theory, history, ethnomusicology and so on. Composition majors often do fine on that type of environment, depending on what they want. Many college music majors pursue private lessons, whether inside or outside of their school, and, of course, many participate in ensembles and bands.</p>
<p>I am rambling a bit but don’t yet have a good feel for what it is you want. Hope this is helpful. I have a feeling that you are a bit modest, by the way.</p>
<p>So far, Berklee and USC sound good for you. Oberlin comes to mind too.</p>
<p>Note that Oberlin does not have a specifically classical sax teacher. They have a composition department and a very good sax teacher in the jazz department who will tell you that he does not like labels like “classical” and “jazz”</p>
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<p>Saxyboy, just to clarify a little in case you’re unfamiliar – there are “schools of music” at college/universities that operate more like the conservatories described by compmom. For example, University of Michigan, where my son attends, has a Dec. 1 deadline for composition/prescreen/portfolio, followed by auditions in Feb./March. You must submit a portfolio and interview/audition for composition, jazz studies, performance etc. The University of Indiana’s Jacobs school of music is another one that operates that way.
Academic or general study of music is also available at those and other schools of music (eg. a BA of Musical arts at UMich, BFAs in Jazz Improv, etc.) in addition to BMus. So, don’t assume if a program is at a university or college that it does not operate like a conservatory – sometimes it does and the phrase “school of music” is usually a tip off, as is the offering of a BMUS and accreditation.</p>
<p>Other colleges, however, do have music and sometimes composition departments that are not exactly part of a “school of music” or “conservatory setting” type of program, which typically have fewer music-discipline-specific graduation requirements. Hope that helps you get the distinctions a little.</p>
<p>One thing that might help you a bit – go listen to the level of play on university school of music websites (sometimes they have samples) and picture yourself playing that material at that level in the near future to guage, and search “auditions” in YouTube – you can glean a little by web romping. Also read the recommended repertoire for auditions and get familiar with whether or not that material is something you could master with practice. Eg. are you accustomed to transposing the key? Sight reading? Do you shine at improv? Do people comment on your tone when you play in public? Have you worked in depth on technique? </p>
<p>Good luck in your search!</p>
<p>(Hey compmom, I think you edited while I was posting this clarification…; )</p>
<p>Ok thanks guys. All this info is really helping me. I think I understand why I got the answers I did from my teacher. I now know I have to ask more specific questions and ones that are more relevant. Thanks a lot. oh and also thanks for the advice on going for a composition degree and how to be prepared for that. Oh and I think I have decided on going for performance. Not that I don’t want to compose, but I think if I learn hoe to perform first it will help having a better understanding of music. And hey I have all my life to compose once I master (or at least get good at) my instrument. and yet again thanks for the helpful info</p>
<p>oh and p.s. if anyone has and more info on schools that have a good performance program specifically that would be nice.</p>