Need help guiding son with college decision...engineering, etc.

@momofsenior1, I don’t know if things have changed dramatically in 5 years, but my son was offered $100,000 merit aid at Case. He didn’t attend, but in pure dollar terms, it was his best award. At the time they had a reputation as being generous.

Back to the OP, for schools like Lehigh that might give high awards, that’s going to be tough. The more selective a school is, the less likely it will be that a 3.9 will get a high award. I’d look at Case due to its affiliation with CIM. Eastman at Rochester and Peabody at Hopkins are others in that realm. I doubt any of them would be affordable though without substantial need based aid.It

Before wasting time and money on both SAT and ACT, have him take an online SAT/ACT diagnostic test. Usually students favor one or the other. There’s rarely a need to do both.

@eyemgh - My D graduated HS two cycles ago and Case admission, especially for engineering, seemed very unpredictable. Kids with great stats not only didn’t see merit money, but were wait listed. Conversely, our neighbor’s D who graduated 7 years prior, got a huge award. My sense is that as they are becoming a more popular choice with students, they aren’t having to give out the same merit that they used to.

@MWolf agreed, thats why I wrote depending on where OP lived. ?

Lots of colleges will give half scholarships for OOS. This seemed typical 3 years ago but that still leaves like $30,000/year Coa for most schools.

Have him talk to the school of informatics. We had a meeting with them on our way to visit Rose Hulman. It was interesting but it was brand new and not what my son wanted to do. Of course my sons mentor is in the school of information at Michigan and basically the same thing.

Also Indiana has some association with Rose Hulman and Purdue. You might want to look into that also and see if that makes sense.

Also look into places like Kettering. You do coop like every other semester and make money. Many use this type of school to pay for their schooling. There are other school like it

It may also be worth exploring programs like university of Cincinnnati that offer mandatory co-op as a part of the program. It is a large state school, but there is music on campus. Not sure about how a minor fits with engineering though. If he is a NMF, full tuition is possible. Co-op earnings are good and he can count on those earnings since co-op is required. Southwest flies between Baltimore and Cincinnati for very reasonable fares.

@momofsenior1, that makes sense. Schools give away money when they perceive they need to in order to increase rank. They probably don’t need to any more.

Since you are in a tough financial situation, you should also explore community college options. Some of the have excellent partner programs with 4 year university programs.

Thanks everyone! Really appreciate the feedback. However, can someone tell me what OP and NMF stand for?

OP = original poster
NMF = National Merit Finalist

Two schools that have both, excellent engineering and music schools, and make it easy to pursue a minor or dual degree: U of Rochester and Rensselaer Poli. Don’t be fooled by high acceptance rates at RPI. It’s one of the toughest engineering schools with the best employment outlook. Talk to your HS and ask if they would be willing to nominate your son for the RPI Medal. It’s currently 25k a year I believe. RPI also has paid internships and undergraduate TA positions.

Most Engineering majors do not have time to minor in music! My son is also interested in an Engineering career but personally I would like to see him get a science degree and either do a 3/2 BSEng program or get a MSEng later. Will you get BEST job as an engineer with a physics degree? No, but you will have a better well-rounded education, admissions are easier, and college options are endless. Engineering is impacted nearly everywhere and can be difficult to graduate in 4 years if you are not starting out with a ton of AP credit. As for job placement with a BA/BS in a STEM field? First choice would be Computer Science or Data Science. Most schools have CS majors that are not in the Engineering school and I believe this one of if not the highest paying majors for new grads. Other options would be applied math, or pretty much anything with a computer science minor. P.S. My husband and I are both Computer Science/Engineering grads and hiring managers in these fields. MD/DC has tons of jobs in these fields too.

@Techno13, a lot has been written about 3/2 programs here. For many reasons the general consensus is that they are not a great idea. As for CS, it pays great and demand is high, but sitting in front of a screen pounding out code day in and day out isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.

As the parent, you would be ok with paying for 5 instead of 4 total years of school in these scenarios?

One of the typical barriers to 3+2 intending students actually completing it by transferring to the “2” school is the extra cost (including potentially worse financial aid).

I’d prefer to see him get a 4 year science/math degree from a LAC and later a MSEng. But a 3/2 Program has its appeal. Yes, I would pay for it. We won’t get finaid anyway and the “2” schools we’ve looked at are cheaper than the “3” schools.

The 3-2 programs rarely work the way they’re supposed to because so often the student backs out of transferring. They want to finish Senior year at the college they’ve been going to the past 3 years.

I disagree with this. It can be done in 8 semesters without AP. There is a schedule and the student follows it. A 5th year wasn’t an option for us because of finances (scholarships lasted 8 semesters) so my daughter had to graduate in 4 years. My nephew did it too. No AP, no DE credits (at ALL). I don’t think they were outliers, I think they were typical kids on a budget. No dropping classes, no ‘light’ semesters. It’s hard work.

I don’t think any school is going to award a large music scholarship to a ‘minor’. Full scholarships go to those committed to music, and they are rare to majors.

The OP’s son will be eligible for an extra $4k/$5k in direct loans per year because the parents will not be eligible for Plus loans (bankruptcy w/i 5 years). He will end up with about $45k in loans. Ouch.

There are two states were he could move to, work, and then get instate tuition for the next year, Utah and Missouri. Both have excellent engineering offerings. He’d still be dependent for FAFSA purposes, but an independent resident for tuition purposes. (NY schools are not free)

Sometimes you have to go to the school that isn’t a perfect fit because of finances. If Indiana will give him a full ride, look for which majors would work for him. Sometimes it’s physics, sometimes it’s music. Free undergrad means grad school is a possibility. He might get a full scholarship to Alabama Huntsville or Birmingham. Look at U of Kentucky. If he is NMF, he can get a full ride to any Florida public or Miami(close to full).

If you want to stay near Baltimore, there is UMBC, Towson, Delaware has some nice scholarships. As you learned with your daughter, to get the big scholarships the school’s going to need to want the student, not just the student wanting the college.

He will be disadvantaged in the job search if he chooses this route. Multiple people have posted here about having trouble having gone down that road. It’s not impossible, it just raises more of a barrier. He needs to know that there’s a trade off in order to get the purported advantages of the LAC.

LAC is good for a general education, but usually falls short in any specialized field, even in science and math (because LACs aren’t equipped to offer a variety of advanced courses/specialties). A graduate degree later on may offset some of its shortcomings, but s/he would likely be out of the gate a step or two behind. There’re, of course, exceptions. LACs may be great fits for some, but certainly not all.

on average probably so, but I personally know so so many counter examples. And if you look at long term success in leadership in the tech/innovation sectors I suspect the tables get turned completely. Not to mention that a college education (for many) is not simply about getting a top paying job.