Need help making a college list. I'm a rising senior!

College Search & Selection
1

Hey! First time posting so I hope I’m doing this right. I’m having a bit of trouble narrowing down a college list. There’s so many colleges I like that I’m having trouble deciding where to actually apply at all, not to mention where to apply early decision. I’d prefer more supportive schools in an urban environment with lots of clubs. I’m open to pretty much anywhere, even outside the States, but preferably in the New England Area, New York, California, Texas, or Louisiana. I’m really open to a college anywhere though if I like it. I’m premed, considering studying anthropology, art history, psychology (evolutionary), ecology and evolutionary biology, or linguistics. Hopefully planning to attend an elite med school in the future (like Columbia) and maybe be in the military for a few years.

I’m half black, half white, and a little hispanic (great grandma was from Mexico, and my grandma partially grew up there.
We’re still relatively close to our family in Mexico). I’m from a catholic military family, dad’s a retired air force colonel and my mom was also briefly in the service before becoming a stay-at-home mom, so I’ve grown up moving a lot. We’re upper middle class now, but I’ve got two older siblings in college, and one younger brother a couple years behind me, so my family probably can’t afford more than around $20,000 to $30,000 a year at most.

I go to a large public in Utah that’s 10-12. It’s a really good school that’s over 90% white mormons, so most people go to BYU.
GPA: 3.962 uw
ACT: latest score is 29, hoping to retake and get at least a 32 this September

Sophomore Year Classes: US History honors, English 10 honors, Secondary Math 2 honors, Dance (actually yoga), Spanish 3, Foods 2, Emergency Medical Responder, Ceramics 1, Health, Physics, Intro to Health Science

Junior Year Classes: AP US History (5), AP Art History (5), AP Psychology (4), Spanish 4 (took the AP test and got a 4), English 11 honors, French 3, Medical Anatomy Physiology, Secondary Math 3 honors

Senior Year Classes: I’m getting my CNA at a local technical college, AP Gov&Pol, AP Calc AB, AP Spanish Lit, AP Bio, financial literacy, PE, TA for French 3 (may self study for AP French Lang)

Extracurriculars: Not that impressive
HOSA–been in it since sophomore year, was VP of service last year, and I’m probably going to be President this year
Nurse Exploring–kind of a nurse internship at a hospital I’ve been doing since junior year, only 1 hour a month though
NHS–been a regular member since sophomore year
Was in Military club sophomore year
No school sports, but I do Bikram Yoga and Hike in my spare time
I go to RCIA at my church, but I’m not sure that counts
Went to BYU french camp one summer, but I don’t tend to do much most summers, just visit family, have fun, etc.
I have maybe 70 hours of volunteering for high school so far (club activities, Spanish tutoring, etc) but I haven’t added them all up yet, so that could change

These are the colleges I’m considering so far:
Barnard College–maybe ED
Johns Hopkins–maybe ED
Tulane
SMU
University of Utah honors college–safety, but seems like a good school apart from the fact that they don’t have one of the majors I want (EEB)
McGill University
Williams–reach, grandfather went here
Bryn Mawr College
Dartmouth
University of Michigan
The New School
UC Boulder
University of Minnesota
Spelman college honors
Howard University
Cornell–great grandfather went here, and I’ve also got a relative that’s a doctor at Cornell Med
Duke
American University in Paris–doesn’t seem to have a good science program
Georgetown–my grandma worked here, and I have a great aunt and two great uncles that went here. Honestly, I visited but didn’t like it that much
Boston University
Boston College
Loyola University Chicago–don’t know much about it, but Chicago seems cool
Stanford
NYU–maybe, but doesn’t seem that supportive

If anyone has any suggestions on schools I should add/take away from this list they’d be greatly appreciated!! I’m a rising senior and I’m in a bit of a hurry to get a solid college list so I can actually start applying. Thanks!!

2

Hello,

Well, you sure seem to be all over in the place when it comes to your college choices. Hahahaha. I know the feeling. Hopefully I will be able to help you.

Let’s start off with international schools. I do not know what countries you might be considering, but I know that Germany recently made all of its public colleges free, even for international students. Now, I know what you are thinking. “I don’t speak German.” I don’t either. Personally it just sounds like some angry guy screaming at you half the time. However, a lot of German undergraduate programs in Germany are taught 100% in English. That is right. 100% in English. Germans are very eager to learn English as it is the world language and over 70% of the German public speaks fluent English, honestly probably better than your average American. On top of that, the cost of living in Germany is nowhere near as high. You can actually get a very decent apartment in downtown Berlin for about €600 which is about $650. When you add up food, public transport (that is right, Europe has public transport everywhere unlike us in the USA) and the fact that in Germany healthcare is free for all, and you subtract the fact that you don’t have to pay tuition, it seems like a pretty good deal. I know that the Free University of Berlin (yes, that is actually what it is called, I know, funny) offered a major I was interested in taking. It was North American Studied which involved American and Canadian politics and Anglophone culture in the United States and Canada. It was pretty cool. I had looked into it and contacted their admissions office (all in English of course) and they were super fast to reply (less than 24 hours) and very helpful. I didn’t have to know German, or take a test to show I did. They accepted SATs, ACTs, APs, etc. However, education in Germany is 3 years instead of 4 for a BA/BS so keep that in mind. Also, their admissions times are very different from ours so I would do research on that. Ultimately, I decided not to apply because it would have been too much of a hassle to move myself half way across the world (even though I am a European citizen so I wouldn’t have had to worry about visas or anything). I did a lot of research on European schools ALL over the continent. My advice is to stay away from English schools (I say English and not British because Scotland has a separate education system than the rest of the United Kingdom). They are incredibly expensive, hard to get into, you have to use their weird version of the Common App which looks like a website straight out of the 1990s and their aid tens to be stingy. Scotland, however, I have found to be more reasonable with their prices, usually much lower than schools in England, and, if you are an EU citizen, tuition is free. Now, in England, if you are an EU citizen, you get a MASSIVE discount on schools (even with Brexit the schools promised to keep that discount up for all 3 years of your BA/BS until the year that the UK official leaves the EU AKA March 2019). France, for its part, has good schools but they can be expensive and, of course, in French. The Netherlands is kind of a bit like Germany in that a selective amount of courses are taught in full English and their tuition, if you bother to go looking hard enough, can be much cheaper than many European schools. Spain has a fairly cheap university system with the crown jewels being the University of Madrid and the University of Barcelona. However, the downside is, of course, you have to know Spanish (you said your family had some roots in Mexico so if you know Spanish I might consider looking into these if you are interested). Looking outside of Europe, I would highly recommend the University of Buenos Aires. No matter what anyone here tells you or tries to snub it, UBA is the most highly ranked university in all of Latin America, coming in at about #75 in the QS overall world rankings. This means that it is actually more highly ranked than any university in Spain and many universities in Europe, even more so than many in Germany. Furthermore, Buenos Aires is a cosmopolitan city and one of the regional trading hubs of the world. The university is actually free for undergraduate studies for everyone, even non-Argentines. People come from all over Latin America, especially for the medical program, because of Argentina’s leadership in the region in advanced studies and advanced designs. The stereotype of Latin America being poor and backwards is very much broken here. On top of this, the Argentine peso is very devalued, so you can get 30 pesos for 1 dollar and that is bound to keep getting better. There is plenty of ample public transport in Buenos Aires and airplane tickets for domestic flights are subsided by the government (until recently you could fly from one tip of Argentina to another, about the distance from LA to NYC, for about $50 USD). So if you are looking for something out of the ordinary, this might be a place to consider. Again, if you know Spanish. I have lived in Argentina for quite a few years and can tell you that it is a beautiful nation that honestly doesn’t get enough attention for what it does.

3

Sorry. It cut off because it was too long. Here is the rest

As for foreign “American Universities” like the ones in Paris, Cairo, and Beirut, I do not think I can recommend them. My professor who is Lebanese studied political sciences at the American University in Beirut. He said he really liked it, but that he only went there because it made it easier for him to get a transfer to the US so he could do his masters here at USC and move to American permanently. From my research about the one in Paris, it is very expensive and if you cannot afford such a high cost, I would not even bother with it.

There are quite a few schools in the US that meet full financial need. Now, I know that you mentioned that you are “upper middle class” but in my experience with the people that I have met that have told me they are just that, their income varies quite a lot from about $150,000 to $1 million. I suppose it depends on the person. Also, upper middle class in one state might be very different from the perception in another. I live in California and what I would consider “lower middle class” (about $60,000-$70,000) might make someone in Wyoming or Montana very mad because the average wage in those states is about a third of that. I am really not an expert on Utah but I know that it is fairly well advanced and built for being one of the states in the country that is landlocked, so I am going to assume that wages are decently high. You said that you had 2 brothers in college and another behind you. So a family of 6 total. That might definitely help in terms of financial aid need. I think it might be wise to apply to schools that offer full need based aid. Some of those are even on your life such as the University of Michigan (which is pretty much highly ranked in everything), any Ivy League school, and a few others. State schools do NOT tend to be very generous to out of state students. I know, for example, that the UC system here in California is very mean to out of state kids and they basically have to pay twice what we have to pay. So do take that into consideration. You might want to consider looking for out of state private schools because, even if their price tag is higher (though probably not that much higher than an out of state public school) they will likely be much more generous with their financial aid package. For example, I applied to George Washington University, which is in the top 10 globally for international relations which is what I study, and it is a $68,000 a year school. They offered me $48,000 in aid. That leaves you at $20,000 a year. I did not take the offer as I thought it was too much and could go to an even better school in the UC system for much, much less money. However, for you, assuming the situation is similar, that would be a good bargain since it is in your price range. Another recommendation, family military connections help. But the best connections are those of people that either went to the school or worked at the school. If it is a prestigious school, that would make you a legacy student if your family went there, and they will be much more likely to take you. Which is why a lot of people that go to Harvard odds are have had family that went there before them. As for people that work at the college, I am not sure it works as much in your favor, but it certainly can’t hurt you. (Word of advice, in the UK, it is the opposite. NEVER tell anyone you are related to someone who works there. It is seen as a form of bribery that you are trying to use your connections to get in rather than your own work, and they do NOT like that. Unless you are the monarchs in which case nobody could care any less).

McGill is an OUTSTANDING medical university. My friend’s mom went there and (besides the fact you will freeze your literal ass off) she said that she never once regretted going there. She is a doctor herself (pediatrician) which her own practice and makes a solid $300,000 a year. So if you are looking for top notch definitely apply here. Back within the states, I would apply to any school you have family connections to (even if you don’t like Georgetown, just go there for a year and then transfer, as literally everyone will be desperate to take you), and possible a few others that you feel might be safety schools within your price range. Use the online calculators to estimate how much aid they would give you. Make posts on this forum about each college you are considering and see what people take you. Watch youtube videos online about it. Go there in person if you can to get a good feel for it. Personally I do NOT believe in the school that “feels right.” If it is a good school and I get in even if I hate it odds are I will go there simply because it is good. I rather suck it up for four years and lock myself in my room but show that I graduated from somewhere great than go to somewhere that “feels right” and not be able to get a job after it or be up to my head in debt. What I am getting at is, weigh all variables. I know people will tell you that it will be the best time of your life, but I never believed that. If you tell yourself that now you will have nothing to look forward to. College is just something you have to do man. If you like it then great. If it sucks, well, the next step is better. It is just another step in life, one that, whether we hate it or not, will help us in the end.

Best of luck!

4

If you think that you will go to medical school (or into a graduate or professional program), then you need to save your money for that, and not spend it all on your undergraduate education. Getting into medical school is primarily an issue of good grades, good MCAT scores, and good recommendations; it is not a question of the name or prestige of where you get your undergraduate degree. I have had doctors tell me that, once you have your M.D., nobody cares where you received your undergraduate degree.

Further, your specific undergraduate major does not necessarily determine whether you will get admitted to a medical school. So, I would still apply to the University of Utah; see what merit aid you get there, and then look at the costs of medical school after you figure out how much your 4 years of undergraduate school will cost you.

5

If you don’t like Georgetown, don’t apply. Others will chime in, but if you don’t have financial need, I don’t see Duke or NYU coming in anywhere close to $30k. McGill is a great school, but I don’t think a lot of aid for Americans, so that will probably be a little higher than $30k, if that’s doable for your family.

6

Sit down with your family and get a more precise sense of how much you can afford. Each college provides a Net Price Calculator that will give you an estimate of net cost to your family, based on income, assets, and so on. With those numbers in hand, it may become clearer how to start pruning the list. If you need merit aid, aim for colleges where you place at or above the 75th percentile of the entering class. You can find these stats on colleges’ Common Data Set docs (search the web sites). If you’re committed to medicine, it would be wise to keep undergrad costs in check. Applying ED could be at odds with this strategy.

7

@MonicaHippo - I only want to say don’t go to Georgetown if you don’t like it. there are so many colleges and universities to choose from and why go for one you don’t like? Also as a safety you should have a school you can afford, that you know with certainty you will get into, like and will have what you want to study. It should be someplace that you can count on if the rest of the list doesn’t go your way. Is there another college that can be that safety that has the majors you would like to pursue?

8

Yes, check costs (net price calculator) on each college of interest. Be aware that medical school is expensive, so saving money and avoiding debt can help you reduce the debt at the end of medical school, if you get in (note that pre-med and applying to medical school is a harsh weeding process, so that most frosh pre-meds do not apply to medical school, and most who apply get shut out). All US medical schools are elite in terms of admission – pre-meds should consider themselves lucky if they get just one admission. For some states, in-state public medical schools may be a bit less reachy than other medical schools, but still reaches (rather than super-reaches).

In terms of ecology and evolutionary biology as a major, many schools do not have that specific major, but just have a biology major within which students can choose ecology and evolutionary biology courses as upper level electives. University of Utah is such a school (here are its biology courses: https://catalog.utah.edu/#/courses?expanded=Biology ). So do not write off University of Utah because of this issue.

9

You have good stats. Don’t be too eager to move out of state. Almost all of the schools listed are either private or out of state publics. Out of state tuition is triple the cost of in-state. Private schools are even worse. This means that you’re going to get a list of acceptances to a bunch of schools you can’t afford. If your parents can’t afford the tuition, you can’t go there no matter how much you love it. You need to make cost your first consideration when applying to college. The U of U should probably be top on the list. If you want to go out of state, you can certainly do that, but you need to pair it with a scholarship or tuition waiver. That requires some research, and typically colleges like to see high ACT/SAT scores.

10

Tulane was the college I immediately thought of when I read this, so I’m glad to see it made your list. It’s become very selective, though, so getting that ACT score up to a 32 would help.

Some of the colleges in western states are exceptions to this, since OP qualifies for WUE as a Utah resident. Tuition at Utah is $8400 per year for in-state students. WUE tuition is actually cheaper at some OOS schools (e.g. $5600 at U Wyoming, $6600 at U Montana, $8000 at Montana State). WUE tuition is more expensive but within OP’s cost range at many other schools ($9200 at Western Washington, $16,300 at U Hawaii, $16,500 at Colorado State, etc.).

https://www.wiche.edu/wue
https://www.wiche.edu/info/wue/WUEsavingsChart.pdf

11

In addition to coursework in EEB, within the biology major, there is quite a bit of research in that area at UofU: http://www.biology.utah.edu/research/interest.php?int=10 And there’s an Honors track of the biology major, which would make the lower-division classes smaller. More faculty contact in Honors = more potential for strong med school recommendations. There’s plenty of strength there in your other areas of interest too. Your own flagship provides a fantastic deal; make sure you don’t discount it just because of “familiarity breeds contempt syndrome.” I especially wouldn’t see the point of paying double the COA for CU Boulder, for example.