After 16 years of marriage we are having our first real cultural problem. It all has to do with higher education.
We have a 14 year old sophomore daughter. She is VERY bright, always number one in her class, very talented in multiple areas. My husband comes at the question of college from a VERY Indian perspective. She has to know NOW what she wants to do and it has to be a choice that is VERY lucrative. He has agreed to forgo Doctor/Engineer but is still stuck on Computer Science or a STEM program. My daughter is great in math and science…but also happens to love writing and theatre. It makes him crazy to even discuss a path that is less traditional. He believes that a kid at 14 is perfectly capable of knowing what they want to do with their life (because he did - as did most of his classmates) and that it is showing a lack of commitment or passion to not have decided by this time.
I come at this from a completely different perspective. She is only 14 for crying out loud. I would of course love for her to follow her dreams - even if I didn’t see how that would lead to a high paying job in the end. I understand that a school that would require some debt/loans might not be worth it if she is looking at a less lucrative field. She and I have been looking at schools that offer merit aid with the idea of reducing costs. Of course my husband is all about the “top” schools - the ones that will cost an arm and a leg to send her to.
We have hired a private counsellor here (the one at school has her hands full) and luckily they seem to fall on my side of the spectrum in terms of helping her decide what she wants to do. They would even like her to go to college “undecided” which, honestly, might make my husband have a stroke.
I really need to figure out a balanced approach to this because it is causing pretty high levels of friction - and we still have years to go in the process!
At 14, she should try to do well in high school in all subjects (seems like she is capable of that), since she can certainly change her mind between now and college. Your husband may want to back off, since heavy tiger parent pressure to select a college major and career path that is not currently her interest at this early stage may backfire and lead to conflict and resentment.
Not all STEM graduates have good major-specific job and career prospects. CS often does, but the industry can have wild ups and downs – and job markets can be quite poor for those unlucky enough to graduate during the downs.
Something to consider is whether your daughter tends to be frugal in her personal spending habits. If she is, then she will have more possible viable career directions, because she will have less pressure to chase the money at every decision. If not, then she needs to realize that spendy spending habits can limit her choices in terms of career directions that she can support herself on.
Tiger Dad needs to chillax. Most kids are not “passionate” about what they want to do for a career. Most 14 year olds haven’t even HEARD of many careers.
It’s easier for a 14 year old to feel “passion” about the typical Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, Teacher careers because those are familiar to them. What about the 1000 other careers that they’ve never heard of? Naturally, those people went into those careers after learning about them at an OLDER AGE.
U need to challenge your husband to ARTICULATE PRECISELY WHY it must be very lucrative. Is the lucrativeness for your daughter’s well being? Or is it for his ego?
My husband is also South Asian while I am from Spain. We also experienced some cultural differences approaching college admissions and majors with our daughter last year. The Indian school system is based on the British system under which my husband studied. Students specialize early in school with the A levels exams and then are admitted to college to study a particular major. They graduate in three years and all they study is their major, no general requirements at all like here. Our daughter didn’t know what she wanted to study and my husband initially had great difficulty understanding how this could be so. Fortunately, he had no hang ups as far as the major itself, our daughter could have chosen pretty much anything and he would have been fine with it for the most part. I just gave him some statistics about the percentage of students that end up changing majors in the U.S. and it finally sank in that it didn’t matter whether our daughter went in undeclared or not, many of those kids that go in with a major will end up changing anyway. As far as the specific major itself, is your husband aware that your daughter could do a major and a minor or even a double major? It is way too soon to get stressed about your daughter’s career. See if your husband will be open to not closing doors just yet to non lucrative possibilities in the form of at least a minor. Good luck!
Some schools offer CS in A&S, not just in Engineering.
I would suggest for you to continue your discussion. There is a balance between knowing exactly what you want to do at 14 (more Asian) to “let her follow her dream” (very White people thinking). My kids are half Asian and half White. They will remark “that’s very White.” They do notice the cultural difference, and not one is completely better than another. If you continue your discussion (maybe without your kid), I think you and your H will come to an agreement.
@InfoQuestMom’s post is very helpful. The British system requires early decision making, and the Indian system is so segmented and competitive that realistically you have to make your choices early. At Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, etc. you do not need to declare your major until spring of sophomore year (note that you can do CS at Princeton either through the engineering school OR as a regular AB)…
Also, as the other posters have noted, there is no infallible link between a major and a paycheck- even with engineering, law, or medicine. A big part of it will be what your D chooses to do within that field.
Infoquestmom brought up some good points. It is not an either/or thing. Sometimes bright kids have too much going for them and it can make deciding on a major or a career very difficult. US education can be very broad-based.
D1’s dream is to be a pastry chef. She could also see herself in the military or in a convent. Our advice has been to get a 4 year degree in something that can be used in many fields and explore options through electives. If she still is bent on the culinary, we will fully support it. The problem with creative fields is that while there are examples of lucrative options, most often an artist (in the broad sense of the term) must work an 'ordinary job while building a portfolio that will launch their career.Better to have a solid fall-back than to pursue the dream only to end up bitter or on the street.
OP, your child does not need to major in English to be a writer…but she also may not want a STEM field anyway. Perhaps there is middle ground where she can pursue a degree that will lead to a solid fallback career and build her writing or theater as a minor, double or simply as electives.
@GMTplus7 it is genuinely for her well being. He wants her to be independent. He wants her to be comfortable. He wants her to be able to travel and do all the things she wants to do in her life. For him that means earning a high salary becomes a top priority.
@InfoQuestMom yes - you are completely right. It comes from the system that he went through and is familiar with. Yes, he is aware of double majors and those options. He just can’t get his head around “not knowing” what you want to do. From his perspective…the earlier you know, the more groundwork you can put in, the more likely you can go to the best school in your area, and the more advanced you can become in your career.
@collegemom3717 - that is very helpful information - the fact that she doesn’t even have to declare until sophomore year!
I think what I need to do is have the statistics that show that NOT taking three or two sciences every year in HS will not foreclose too many options for her in the long run. (Yes, that is a discussion we are having.)
As long as she takes biology, chemistry, and physics, plus math through precalculus, she hasn’t closed out any options. If she can take calculus, so much the better. If she’s interested in science and if her schedule permits, taking at least one AP science might be a good idea.
If she’s considering computer science, it would be a good idea to take one or more computer science courses in high school (or, if they’re not available at her high school, perhaps in the summer session at a community college). This is not exactly required, but she will find when she gets to college that most of the students in the computer science courses have some previous experience. (My son was a computer science major; I’m talking from his experience.)
It seems the best solution for your family would be to get your daughter admitted to a liberal arts program of some highly prestigious University or LAC as an undecided major. It should satisfy your husband’s desire to pay arm and leg for a prestige and employment prospects should still be good no matter what major she choses.
I have a similar background to your husband, this is the approach we took with our daughter and I am staying mildly optimistic that it will end well. I also believed that in HS everyone should study Physics, Chemistry and Bio every year for at least 4 years and become an engineer but there may be other options for a successful career that we do not know about, especially for a girl.
How can a 14 year old even know what is available to them? My D2 didn’t take Physics until her senior year of high school, and didn’t take a CS class until her freshman year of college. Now a junior at Harvey Mudd, she is majoring in Physics with a major option that allows her to take some high level CS courses as part of her physics major. But she didn’t even have exposure at 14 to either area.
Her high school did not even offer any science APs (they did have honors classes), and the highest level math was AP Calc AB, which they couldn’t take until senior year. She did self study for AP Calc BC during senior year, and also self studied for a couple of years to take the USA Biology Olympiad. But honestly she did not do great on the USABO, it is tough to self study for, especially if your HS doesn’t even offer AP Bio.
But the point is that she is faring very well at a highly selective college without taking a ton of advanced math or even AP sciences in high school. There is no earthly reason for your D to take extra sciences and push the pace beyond a normal HS schedule. ONE science per year is probably fine, 2 if she is really interested in something. If she is interested in STEM or engineering, she could try out some summer programs in those areas.
Do you live in a community with many S Asian parents? Are you and your family well connected with others through a temple or mosque? The reason I ask is that my community has man S Asian parents. My kid went HS (top ten ranked in US) that was 85% Indian & Pakistani (she’s biracial: chinese/caucasian) – and thus, we were witness to the full spectrum of families and their expectations.
I also happen to be a recruiter for an Ivy league school so many families know me.
Because our community is a destination point for other S Asians, a critical mass of families who have been here 10+ years was already established – and many sent their kids off to unis already-- having had to confront the concerns your husband is dealing with. Can you link up with other families and see how they have successfully navigated the US system (as opposed to the Indian-Pakistani-UK-European systems)? Perhaps this will allow your husband some perspective and can lessen his anxiety.
Indeed, one Indian friend refused to let his kids go to top ten HS b/c he wanted his kids to be in the more diverse district HS (which is still awesome).
BTW: my kiddo is a Computer Engineering student but her biggest ECs were sports and writing and art – she just happens to like coding and math/sci – but we never pushed her there. Indeed, her professors value her depth and she stands out amongst her peers – which I attribute to her natural creativity (writing/art)
