<p>I just learned that I got admitted off the wait list of Oberlin this year, and I'm now trying to decide between it and Haverford, the school I planned to attend if not admitted off the list.</p>
<p>I'm aware of some of the major differences between the two, (e.g. music conservatory, size, arty or not). I am not exactly very artsy and quirky right now (as my high school isn't exactly that way), but i kinda hope I could become someone like that and live with people like that. And I intend to major in one of the social sciences, maybe a minor in fine arts as well (or I could just take some related classes.) </p>
<p>Anyway, I'm mainly hoping someone could tell me something about Cleveland, as I've never been to US before, and have no idea whatsoever about what to expect there, and differences between Cleveland and Philly. (I somewhat prefer Philly as it's the northeast and historical and everything. I want to spend college near a city that's politically, economically and culturally active, a city that's at the center of things, where things are happening. So what's Cleveland like?</p>
<p>Also, Oberlin comes quite lower in ranking than Haverford (26th and 9th), and I wonder if it implies that academics at Oberlin would not be as stimulating, and qualified. So what's the American general impression about Oberlin: highly selective school that only the best get in or great school, but not quite outstanding? Would the impression about Haverford academics be better? (Say if everything else is the same, would someone graduated from Haverford get a job more easily than someone from Oberlin?) </p>
<p>I know I'll have to make a decision on my own after all, but any help would be highly appreciated!</p>
<p>I had to choose between Emory, University of Florida, and Oberlin. Oberlin won after I had visited all three.
I think that, for the most part, the general population does not know much about liberal arts colleges or their quality unless they are from the area, at least compared to large universities, but those that need to know (employers and grad schools etc) will. </p>
<p>I think what brought me to Oberlin was simply its feel. It has a very active student body and is large (due to the conservatory AND college) compared to its peers. There is so much happening there, just looking at the calendars and pamphlets that were posted.
I think you should look at the course catalog to compare the two, as smaller schools often have smaller catalogs -a larger Oberlin may strike your fancy. </p>
<p>Finally, when I visited, I got the feeling that people rarely go to Cleveland, and those that do do so only a handful of times. It is about forty minutes away. With all that is happening on campus, though, that was not a deal-breaker.
I am not sure whether Haverford is IN Philidelphia or whether it is a suburb, but you may want to look at commutes either way if a city is a deal-breaker to you. </p>
<p>Haverford is, practically speaking, really the Bi-CO (Haverford/Bryn Mawr) That makes it size-wise about the same as Oberlin, although because Bryn Mawr is all women, the sex ratio is more even at Oberlin. I’d say Oberlin and Haverford are both equally well regarded by employers and grad schools, and the academics equally rigorous. </p>
<p>Cleveland has major league sports teams, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, a world class orchestra and art museum, and some very hip new shopping areas. Obviously it isn’t as historic as Philly, but it’s got plenty to offer if you are so inclined. That said, I think you’d find that there is more than enough to do in Oberlin, and not having to go into a big city for entertainment is both cheaper and easier logistically.</p>
<p>They’re both great schools academically. However, socially they are very different. The area around Oberlin is extremely boring, but the campus is dynamic. Philadelphia is a real city, with all the cultural things a real city has to offer. Cleveland is far and I don’t think students trek there very often.</p>
<p>Oberlin is definitely not in Cleveland–the small town is encircled by farms and cows. Most kids seem to go to Cleveland only to catch the plane home.</p>
<p>But there is more than plenty to do on campus–speakers, plays, performances, etc.</p>
<p>There are plenty of quirky people at HVerford! You can be your new quirky self there and enjoy the arts. Being near Philly not a bad thing or internships, jobs, etc.</p>
<p>Ds was also accepted to Haverford and Oberlin. He chose Oberlin.</p>
<p>In the words of my younger kids’ pediatrician, whose son went to Haverford and husband went to Oberlin, why go to the boring, serious school? Go to Oberlin and and have fun!</p>
<p>As a PP said, Oberlin’s campus and student body is dynamic. There is never a dull moment for these kids. Yes, they certainly work hard. Academics are great. But, in one night, they can attend a performance, help with a fundraiser, have a picnic at the observatory and walk a professor’s dog. There is no need to venture off campus. The students are bright, interesting, passionate and loving. They love all that life has to offer.</p>
<p>Oh - and we live within an hour of Haverford. It’s a wonderful school, but Ds loved the energy and students much more at Oberlin.</p>
<p>Thank u guys so much! This had been very helpful!</p>
<p>And just one more question: I’ve been going through some student reviews about Oberlin and I noticed that there’re some complaints about dorms and class registry. Some say that they’re generally more stressed to register for courses than their mates at other similar size schools and couldn’t take some of the courses they want to take. And students also say that housing options for freshmen aren’t very good. And most importantly, they pretty much all don’t appreciate the school administration very much, which is quite the opposite of Haverford’s case. </p>
<p>I get the impression that the school administration isn’t working their best to satisfy the needs of the students, but only seeking convenience for themselves. I don’t know if this is correct, but if anyone could give me some insights on this topic it’ll be great! This is somewhat the only thing that’s keeping me hesitant. </p>
<p>I respect both schools very much, but they are quite different, as so many have pointed out. Haverford is absolutely closely connected to Philadelphia, with a local train just steps away from campus that will take you into the middle of the city in half an hour. Cleveland is quite remote from Oberlin, and few students go into there because there is so much to do on Oberlin’s campus. If being close to a city that is dynamic politically, culturally and socially is important to you, Haverford would have a huge edge. Philly is a great college town and Haverford students can access that very easily–a few even take classes at Penn.</p>
<p>Many Haverford faculty actually live on campus and historically, going back at least to forty years before (according to a friend who is a Haverford alum from that era), there has always been a strong unifying thread to the Haverford community. Oberlin has a strong community, too, but many of us experienced a chill over the racist behaviors of a deluded student or two this spring that shook up the campus this spring. Doubtless this has made Oberlin even tighter than before.</p>
<p>But the element that really struck me most about Haverford during a visit there with my son two years ago was the Honor Code and the degree to which students have been entrusted by Haverford’s Administration with their own empowerment for over 100 years. The Quaker roots of Haverford have a subtle and nuanced impact that makes it quite special, allowing for people to be themselves, to act with integrity, and to genuinely respect the differences of others, yes, their “quirks” for sure. It has been a a part of Haverford and of the Society of Friends for many years.</p>
<p>Good luck on your choice! Two great schools.</p>
<p>I’d take those student reviews with a healthy grain of salt.</p>
<p>D’s experience was that the dorms are perfectly adequate. There are certainly schools with posher dorms and Haverford may be one of them. I don’t know. Dorm choices do expand after freshman year as well.</p>
<p>In terms of getting classes: My D has been shut out of some ExCo classes, but, has gotten all the regular classes she’s wanted, though sometimes it involved talking to the professor. I can’t believe Haverford is any different in that respect. </p>
<p>I’m not sure exactly what your concern is about the administration Clearly they listened to the students during the racial incident–which is why classes were cancelled. D has had a campus job, done study abroad, and dealt with the financial aid office. Everyone has been helpful and accomodating. I know there’s been a change to how class credits are calculated which has caused some dissatisfaction, but change is always stressful. I’m a parent, and I would not assume that the students always know better how to run the school.</p>
<p>I agree with the above posters. Ds has not uttered a negative word about administration or class registration. He and I felt that the administration handled the recent incidents well and in true Oberlin style. He did sit in on a class during the first weeks of the semester, hoping to get a fairly popular professor. He eventually got in.</p>
<p>Ds lived in a co-op, so we have no experience with dorms. I do know that living in a co-op was a fantastic experience for him and will be living in one again in the fall.</p>
<p>The Haverford Honor Code was a selling point for my son. But he has found that Oberlin also has a living code that permeates the campus and student body and faculty. This code of honor and respect is what makes Oberlin so special.</p>
<p>You cannot go wrong with either school. Best wishes.</p>
<p>Think carefully about going to Oberlin. My freshman will not be going back in August. Yes, Oberlin has a creative, independent thinking student body. The Conservatory is fabulous and professors are generally good. The main problem is the systemic drug use, not limited to marijuana. In the dorms, in the dorm rooms, in public spaces on campus. Ignored by the College and local police. If you are already a recreational drug user, then sign up but if you are not and don’t want to be you need to go somewhere else. To address some of the previous posts: (1) many of the Oberlin dorms would be condemned at other colleges - peeling paint, crumbling walls, broken doors and drawers, disgusting carpeting; (2) class offerings are very restrictive and students regularly cannot register for classes that they need to take since many required courses are only offered in the spring or in the fall and not both semesters; (3) the College just changed its graduation requirements - extremely confusing and very restrictive; (4) although there are a lot of music events on campus the town is very small and there is little to do and it is pretty much impossible to get to Cleveland; (5) there is a very strained relationship with the local community and lots of crime including armed robberies, the most recent of which occurred last week in the village apartments for upperclassmen (men with guns and masks). Think carefully about whether you wish to spend 4 years at Oberlin.</p>
<p>I hope that knowledgeable folk will respond to Omamma. In my opinion, Oberlin is a wonderful, safe place where our son spent 4 years and recently graduated. Are dorms fantastic? No. They are definitely on par with other dorms in the country. I have not known a student to have problems with “restrictive” class scheduling; in fact, the breadth of classes my son (who was in the Con, but took advanced-level college classes) was amazing. His friends who graduated in religion, english, art history and the sciences all had logical and mostly problem-free class scheduling. From what I understand, drug- and alcohol use is about average compared to other colleges. The administration DOES care. Is Oberlin, the town, perfect? No - there have been “hate” related incidents and there is crime about on par with other small towns. However, I have never known of someone to feel unsafe. </p>
<p>That all being said, no college is a perfect fit for all students. I know the transfer process is stressful and not easy, so congrats to your child for jumping through all the hoops required. I hope your child has a better experience with his or her future college.</p>
<p>I must agree with SJTH. My son completelty enjoyed his first year in the Conservatory. I have seen several of the dorms and they are the same as at most liberal arts colleges of Oberlin’s kind. Has the University of Chicago built newer dorms, yes, as have other schools, but colleges are not in the habit of building hotels and I believe that omomma’s statement is simply misguided. Oberlin is an amazing place to live and learn. It is not by accident that so many creative people have graduated from there. Drinking and drugs exist at most colleges. An Oberlin student does not have to partake and there is not the pressure to do so. There is always Wheaton College in Illinois (but not Haverford) if you want an environment totally (at least on the surface) free from vice.</p>
<p>To SJTH, thanks for the kind words re: my child’s transfer. If your son was in the Conservatory he received a world class music education but the Con students generally remove themselves from the rest of the campus. He also likely did not come up against scheduling road blocks. For example, what college of 2500 students with highly enrolled science programs only offers the first chemistry course in the fall? The elimination of AP credit and the restriction on transferring in summer courses will really impact their highly regarded Double Degree program. And dorms with crumbling walls, filthy carpeting and broken built ins are NOT something at other LACs. I was not expecting posh but I was also not expecting tenement. As for the drug use, there was not really pressure to partake but the entire social scene is built around weed and other substances. It cannot be avoided. I hope your son is embarking on a wonderful career as a musician. From what I know of the Conservatory, it is a great institution, perhaps the finest in the country.</p>
<p>omomma: I am sorry things were so rough. I can only imagine your frustration. I hope things brighten considerably as you move forward. To the OP, my D’s experience in the college has been very positive both academically and socially. And as a parent, I was very pleased with campus communication during a medical emergency - no, it was not drug or alcohol related.</p>
<p>I have taught at Oberlin for 36 years, during which time I have maintained strong relationships with hundreds of students and alumni, and I have never–not once–heard a student make the sort of charges that omomma has made. I do not know her child, but I do know for a fact that what she reports is not a common experience. I’m sorry her child was unhappy, but what she has said is simply not a true characterization of Oberlin.</p>
<p>Thanks, Omamma - it WAS a world-class education. I have to disagree about the idea that Con students remove themselves from the rest of the college. The exact opposite was really true. The majority of his best friends were the students I referenced above - religion, art history, english and science majors. While he obviously collaborated with his Con buddies, I expressed your concern regarding scheduling to the College kids, and they all had not had that experience. Again, I have personal experience with the Transfer process, and I know starting over is a bummer. However, I’ve found that its best to look forward rather than backward. College experiences are personal, and it’s very disappointing when that experience doesn’t meet our kids’ hopes (and, frankly, horrible and, at times heartbreaking, for parents to have to counsel them long-distance). There are students who would kill to go to Oberlin and weren’t accepted. Same for every selective college. I’m sure your child fully researched the next college, and found a better fit. I wish him/her a smooth transition to a place he/she can fall in love with - and quickly!</p>