<p>Thanks again, SJTH. </p>
<p>Dave72, you said that my comments are misguided. Can you give specifics?</p>
<p>The notion that Oberlin revolves around drug culture, and that drugs “simply cannot be avoided,” is quite untrue. There are lots of students who do not use drugs of any sort and who feel perfectly comfortable in avoiding them. In fact, my students tell me they believe there is considerably <em>less</em> drug use at Oberlin than at the schools many of their friends attend. Marijuana is certainly available for students who want it, but most students’ social lives simply do not revolve around it.</p>
<p>My advisees have not come up against the sort of scheduling road blocks you refer to: they got into the courses they needed when they needed to.</p>
<p>I haven’t spent time in most of the dormitories, but certainly the ones I’ve been into I would not describe as “tenement(s).” Oberlin is in the midst of a multiyear program of dorm renovation. I’m sorry to hear your child had an unhappy experience, but I don’t think most students do.</p>
<p>PS. Here are a couple of blog posts about different housing options, including photos. These don’t look or sound like “tenements” to me:</p>
<p>[Oberlin</a> Blogs | Blog Entry: “A Room With a View”](<a href=“http://blogs.oberlin.edu/living/housing/in_my_room.shtml]Oberlin”>http://blogs.oberlin.edu/living/housing/in_my_room.shtml)</p>
<p>[Oberlin</a> Blogs | Blog Entry: “The Perks of Living in Dascomb”](<a href=“http://blogs.oberlin.edu/community/life_culture/the_perks_of_li.shtml]Oberlin”>http://blogs.oberlin.edu/community/life_culture/the_perks_of_li.shtml)</p>
<p>[Oberlin</a> Blogs | Blog Entry: “Dascomb, Part Two”](<a href=“http://blogs.oberlin.edu/living/housing/dascomb_part_tw.shtml]Oberlin”>http://blogs.oberlin.edu/living/housing/dascomb_part_tw.shtml)</p>
<p>Well, my freshman’s experience was that drug use in the freshman dorms is prevalent and unavoidable and not stopped even when reported or seen by Resed. Perhaps the mixed year dorms on campus are better. I agree there is a population of nonusers and I also agree that there was not a great deal of pressure to participate. Perhaps the level of drug use is similar to other colleges but is so visible at Oberlin that it appears to be greater. I am not sure. </p>
<p>I am glad your advisees get into their courses. It is not the case in every discipline. </p>
<p>Regarding my student’s dorm room, the disparity in housing quality at Oberlin is striking and a dorm renovation is long overdue.</p>
<p>Regarding the dorm pictures, it is pure public relations, focused on the better rooms in the better dorms. No one in their right mind at Oberlin would put pictures of my student’s room on the blog:)</p>
<p>omomma - I can only imagine how frustrating your son’s experience must have been. Add me to the list of parents, though, whose freshman son was ecstatic with his first year. My son lived in a co-op. His living conditions were fantastic and he got into all classes. My son is not really a drinker and definitely not a partier. His group of friends are not either. He did not feel pressure at all. In fact, he has visited friends at our state flagship and was shocked by the partying that goes on there. He says there is a difference between that school and Oberlin. At the state school, kids party with the sole purpose of getting drunk, high etc. At Oberlin, drinking a beer is a way to chill while playing board games, baking cookies, or attending a performance on the weekends. </p>
<p>omomma - maybe your son’s experience is indicative of his dorm’s personality? Clearly, it is not the experience of many Oberlin students. I hope he finds happiness wherever he goes and surrounds himself with kids who are like him. It makes me sad that your son had a poor experience, especially because my son has had the best time for the opposite reasons. Best wishes.</p>
<p>lisabees, thanks for the kind words. I am happy that my child’s experience is not everyone’s experience because it was terrible.</p>
<p>omomma, I have no interest in getting into an argument with you; I respect your son’s perspective and have expressed sympathy that he had a bad experience. Let me point out, though, that (1) half my advisees are first- and second-year students from a variety of disciplines, and none of them had significant registration problems, and (2) the photos in the blogposts I referenced are from Tank and Dascomb, certainly not what anyone would call “the better dorms.” If your son lived in a first-year dorm, it was either Dascomb or Barrows (built the same year as Dascomb and in a comparable state of upkeep) or in Kahn (the newest dorm on campus, built in 2010).</p>
<p>dave72, and I have no interest in getting into an argument with you! I appreciate your perspective, but my points should be taken seriously. I have noticed, however, that you are not disputing my comments regarding changes in graduation requirements and curriculum which go into effect this fall for ALL students including students who were already matriculated and progressing toward their degrees under the old requirements. The general practice with changes such as the Oberlin change, is that the currently matriculated students are encouraged to meet the new requirements but permitted to graduate under the old requirements. My child knows upperclassmen who were progressing successfully toward their degrees but now have to drop a second major or minor in order to graduate on time or stay an extra semester or two to complete the new requirements. Perhaps you can give me some perspective on what the Faculty was hoping to accomplish with the new requirements and credit system and why matriculated students were not grandfathered?</p>
<p>Both great schools. Have you visited? I have a son that would pick Oberlin in an instant and another who would not even have had it on his list, but would have loved to have gone to Havorford. So it’s a matter of what your personal preferences are.</p>
<p>Oberlin is not a school associated with Cleveland, however. Those who say that most kids don’t go to Cleveland often have the same impression I have about that relationship. But Haverford is very much involved in the Philly culture as it is right there, and the mass transit can bring you easily right into the middle of things. That is a big difference in schools, in that Oberlin is more isolated. </p>
<p>I know alums from both schools, and they love where they went. I will say, I do know several who transferred out of Oberlin, wheras I do not for Haverford. But, that 's no big deal. It’s the environment you like the better, IMO. If you can visit, it would be worthwhile. Some of my kids instantly knew what environment they liked upon visiting. As far as academics, I don’t think the difference is significant if at all, other than the fact that Oberlin’s conservatory makes the music instruction opportunities top notch.</p>
<p>omomma - it sounds like this is your first college student. I think you’ll find that drugs and alcohol are used on most college campuses (don’t believe me? check out the stats for Yale; our S was the equivalent of an RA there and had to rescue kids with alcohol OD more than once). You’re right about freshman housing, but it gets markedly better after that. Our D had a single in Noah her sophomore year, then lived in a house right across from Wilder her senior year. </p>
<p>We sometimes wondered if she would make it through her freshman year - it was that big of an adjustment. But she ended up with some fantastic experiences (including a semester abroad in Provence) and just graduated with dual majors.</p>
<p>No school is perfect for everyone. Please don’t turn your opinions about Oberlin into a mass generalization.</p>
<p>Jeffo, your assumptions are untrue. Not only is this not my first child in college but I work in higher ed in a capacity which exposes me to lots of student issues. All posts on forums such as these are personal opinions based upon personal experience, not mass generalizations. Isn’t that true with your post?</p>
<p>I am happy that your daughter had a better experience after her rough freshman year. Congratulations on her graduation.</p>
<p>@omomma: As I said, my Oberlin has been fabulous for my D. I am very sorry your child and Oberlin didn’t click. I hope things work out better at the new school. I appreciate the fact that you acknowledge that yours is a personal opinion based on personal experience and not a mass generalization. </p>
<p>I see you’ve set up your CC account recently and have posted exclusively on this forum. I’m sure someone with your background and experience would have lots to contribute to the parents forum and other forums. I hope you will.</p>
<p>My daughter was admitted to Swarthmore and a lot of other fantastic schools and chose Oberlin. Let’s say I was a bit disappointed she didn’t attend the alma mater, but she knew herself and that’s what mattered. She received a top drawer education, as good as what Swarthmore might have offered I’m sure. The grading was just as tough as at Swarthmore; when you earn an A at one of those schools, it’s worthy of note. She made a lot of great friends and Oberlin was a great fit for her. I was super impressed with the school, her professors and the students at last weekend’s graduation. The facilities are more than adequate, they are also top drawer. The Allen Art Museum is outstanding; what other school lets the students use works from its collection in their rooms for a nominal fee? What schools have the history of Oberlin. I dare say there wouldn’t be a President Obama today were it not for the stand Oberlin took 180 years ago and since.</p>
<p>College kids don’t need to live at the Waldorf; for a lot of them, it’s good to rough it a bit. I’m sorry about omomma’s child’s experience but I would advise her to take her overheated and frankly helicopter parental complaints about Oberlin elsewhere as they are clearly not representative of the vast majority of students who attend this unique and exemplary institution.</p>
<p>I’ve noticed a tendency here, as well as on the Bard College board, where someone --be it a student or, in this case, a parent, lays out a point of view that all is not rosy on a particular college campus, based on their own (or their child’s) direct personal experience. SOME–NOT ALL–upset parents who hang around the board rush to defend the college in question, and to portray the critic as either a) uninformed; b) unreasonably hostile to said campus; or c) unwelcome on this board because they do not share the highly positive perspectives of those parents who are defending the campus. My children do not attend either Oberlin or Bard–(though one did apply and was waitlisted and accepted, respectively)–so I do not have a “dog in the game”. I actually admire both Oberlin and Bard highly and would have been quite happy if my children chose either school instead of the ones they did. But I am here to say that the comments of critics have been very interesting, intriguing and in some cases, informative to me and I hope that those with critical views continue to post wherever they like as long as they respect the board norms and rules. Maybe it’s because I loved my sociology classes so much at Wesleyan that I like to find out about the “dark side” that is at such variance from the Admissions Department’s PR machines which churn out such boring, trivial and useless data. To paraphrase Stevie Wonder in “Higher Ground”, “Critics…Keep on Critiquing…Skeptics…keep on Scalding…World…Keep on Turning…Cause it won’t be too long…”</p>
<p>morganhil, well said! I was active on CC a few years ago under a different user name and I found those discussions to be civil and informative. I believe that I have not violated any rules of the forum, although I certainly expressed opinions which were, as you pointed out, unpopular. Swatgrad’s posts both here and in another thread are unfortunate bullying behavior. Below is another post that Swatgrad made on a thread containing a very thoughtful discussion about the low 4 year graduation rate at Oberlin. My post echoed the requests of previous posters for Oberlin to be more transparent in its disclosure of graduation rates at the College and the Conservatory. Swatgrad posted this:</p>
<p>Hey omomma – your kid is leaving or already gone. Why don’t you follow he/she/it out the door? Your incessant bad-mouthing and negativity needs to find another forum. I’m sure that by next year this time you’ll be polluting another school’s board with your higher education expertise. Maybe you need to smoke a joint and mellow out a bit? You’ve worn thin in these parts.</p>
<p>Unfortunate, don’t you agree? Bullying posts make these forums unproductive and the conversations in them one-sided and useless.</p>
<p>I am a parent who’s daughter will be a Freshman at Oberlin this fall and have been reading this thread with some interest. @Omomma, I am truly sorry your child had a terrible freshman experience. No one wants that for their child. I think the points you raised were fair and well expressed and you did not attack anyone personally. I think Swatgrad’s comments were totally out of line and counter to the spirit and rules of CC. And although Swatgtad is clearly a supporter of Oberlin College, as am I, I cringed when I read her last comments.</p>
<p>Bayrunner, thanks! Here is a great website which compares schools and shows that in 2010, white students at Oberlin (both College and Conservatory) had a 43% 4 year graduation rate, and the other measured groups had a much higher graduation rate, with an overall 4 year rate of 49%. The 6 year graduation rate recovers to an acceptable level. There is a lot of discussion on another thread about why this is happening but no real answers. </p>
<p>[Institution</a> | College Completion](<a href=“Student Outcomes”>Student Outcomes)</p>
<p>There are many great things about Oberlin College. I hope your daughter has a smooth transition and a wonderful experience.</p>
<p>Thank you for previous replies.</p>
<p>One more question: I heard that most of the class discussions are boring, and some people don’t have good things to say. Is that right? (Since this is a matter of opinion, it’ll be the best if you could include the academic background of the student whose opinion it is.)</p>
<p>Also, what’s the workload like at oberlin to the hours? I know it’s not known for the intensity, but I’m mainly wondering how would workload differ from one college to another given that students all take basically the same number of classes?</p>
<p>I’m running out of time, so anything would be great!</p>
<p>I have one child at Oberlin. She does no drugs and doesnt drink. She has never had an experience where she was forced or asked to try anything.<br>
In terms of academics, it is rigourous and exciting. She LOVES the classroom discussion and does not find it boring. She is double majoring AND taking advantage of the Conservatory.
You can not go wrong with either school. Both have wonderful credentials.
You will work as hard as you want to work at either school—that really ends up being up to you.</p>