<p>In terms of school reputation, PhD programs appear more concerned with whether the top students in the major from the undergraduate school will be good PhD students. So, while ASU’s baseline selectivity is low, the presence of top students there means that PhD programs are willing to admit the top students from ASU.</p>
<p>Case Western ranked about 60 in physics.</p>
<p>Lots of engineering/ music students. I thought it was a great school.</p>
<p>Wedgedrive. Physics majors who do not go on to graduate school have a harder time getting jobs and are paid considerably less than engineering majors.</p>
<p>I don’t know much about comp science majors.</p>
<p>Son knew from an early age he wanted physics. He was able to get two BS degrees in 4 years. One in physics and one in engineering as the classes can be very similar depending on ones choice of focus. This gave him a huge leg up on getting a job. </p>
<p>It really does matter. </p>
<p>$61,340 is the estimated COA at UofR. Our D was accepted and will get about $25,000 in merit money. However, that still leaves about $35,500 to cover. She has a full ride at another school, a State school she loves, and full tuition at a school she really likes. End result: UofR will likely come off of the table. There is no reason to spend that much when she has other great options that will cost us much less than $120,000+ over the course of 4 years.
If your child really likes Barrett and it is a strong program, you have a great solution in front of you. I do understand your concern about the view of ASU, but I would think that those in the workplace or graduate schools that pay attention to undergrad institutions would know that Barrett is a different breed.
I know of two other families that are taking other offers (1 headed to Case Western and another to Alabama) over UofR because of merit offers that were simply much better for schools their children liked equally as well.
Good luck. These are tough decisions but if money is truly a factor, they become less difficult to sort through when the numbers are quite different.</p>
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<p>Employers and PhD programs probably look more at the ASU graduate’s major, courses, and grades than whether s/he was in the honors program (of course, they may also look at other things, like PhD programs looking at undergraduate research and recommendations). An honors program can enhance the experience if its features are those which the student likes.</p>
<p>I am not up to speed on the Barrett honors program, but check out what the requirements are and whether they are things your student wants to do. My son dropped out of an honors program because it required taking a certain number of honors sections, and he found that it limited the flexibility of his schedule. Would there be any similar problems for your daughter? could she keep the scholarship money if she does not participate in the honors program? My son was able to.</p>
<p>The NMF scholarship at ASU does not require student to be in Barrett. It’s just that most students want to be a part of the program. Barrett dorms and food are more expensive than regular dorms. For Phoenix area kids, if cost is a serious issue they can get an exemption and live at home with family. </p>
<p>Scholarship requires 3.0 GPA and 30 credits completed per year to renew. Summer classes are permitted to reach 30 hours if a student falls behind during the year for some reason.</p>
<p>Barrett has 2 required honors classes. It’s a humanities sequence they call Human Event which is taken fall/spring freshman year. Other than that it’s pretty flexible. Human Event are very good classes. They are demanding. Lots of reading and difficult writing. Kids learn a lot, but much time is needed to earn a good grade. So if you’re a science type who hoped to avoid those sorts of classes with the AP History credits you painfully accumulated in HS, you may have mixed feelings. AP credit doesn’t buy you out of these. </p>
<p>In general the honors courses are nice because they have <25 students and are often taught by the best professors. But there aren’t many upper div. honors classes. My D has 2 in math, but they are barely upper div- 300 level. </p>
<p>To graduate from Barrett, need 3.25 GPA and 36 hours of honors credits, at least 18 of which must be upper div… Human Event is 6 credits. Students defend a required senior thesis that is 3-6 credits. The other 24-27 can be earned in many ways- honors courses, honors study abroad, research, internships, honors contracts with a prof in a regular course section. I think some students do drop Barrett later on, perhaps not interested in senior thesis.</p>
<p>Last year’s NMSC annual report featured a Barrett student who majored in physics and is now in grad school at MIT. In the article he talked about the various research programs he participated in in undergrad. That report is not on web any more, but I saved a pdf. If you’d like to read it, PM me your e-mail address and I’ll send it to you… Be sure to separate the host and no ‘@’ since CC turns that all into stars.</p>
<p>What UCB says is true; top students can go where they like after graduation if they’ve taken advantage of everything available to them during undergrad years. Barrett has a ‘brag’ sheet about what recent grads are doing.
I think I’ve posted this link before but if you haven’t seen it: <a href=“http://barretthonors.asu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Grad-Brag-Sheet-12-13_Graph_2.pdf”>http://barretthonors.asu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Grad-Brag-Sheet-12-13_Graph_2.pdf</a></p>
<p>OP, if you aren’t completely satisfied with your choices and have energy left to pursue it, you should know that some of the schools with large NMF scholarships are still accepting applications from NMF. Mom2collegekids posted a couple of days ago that Alabama is still open to NMFs.</p>
<p>I have a school in mind, but don’t know if they accept late apps like that. It’s worth a shot if you are interested to contact them. UMN- Twin Cities is the best school for math/physics that gives large automatic merit $$ to NMFs. They do limit it to about 125 per year. They give $11,000 per year plus a separate scholarship that waives the OOS tuition. Plus about $2,000 for experiential, and sometimes you get some extra small scholarship. It covers most of tuition/fees, not quite all. But their rm/bd is MUCH cheaper than Barrett. They have a nice honors program, headed by a physics prof, but it’s not as deluxe as Barrett. </p>
<p>Also, last year UMN added a performance BA music major that is the low credit hour type, only 40-45 hours, so much easier to manage as a double major than the BM or high credit BA many schools have (like ASU- BM is 90 and BA still 78 or something.) We looked at UMN last year for D, and spent time visiting and talking to people in music dept. They have a lot of students who want to double major (actually ‘dual degree’ is the technical term) like this but not as many who want the BM, so it’s a way to keep the music program full of energy. The honors dorm, Middlebrook, is across the street from the music building and it also houses the music/arts kids.</p>
<p>Good luck, whatever you decide.You have some good choices.</p>
<p>The money is certainly a big issue, but the experience at a school like the UR will different than at ASU. While the weather can be bad in the winter, it is a 5,000 UG university vs 59,000 at ASU. Even with the honors college, she will be in a large university environment for many courses. My oldest graduated form UR (received a merit scholarship) and had a great experience, and could have had an even better one if he had taken more advantage of his opportunities. My middle kid is at our big state U (not honors) and is doing fine. But there are definite differences between a midsized and a larges school. Not necessarily worth $176K, however, but definitely a differenc in experience. Even if she gets support in graduate school (and still wants to go), it would be nice to have some additional funds for living. </p>
<p>My youngest is a junior and trying to weigh the costs and advantages of large in-state vs out-of-state vs privates is challenging as prices climb over $60K per year. Good luck to your daughter. Sounds like she has some great choices.</p>
<p>Thanks all. She is actually super stressed, trying to decide. She is about to leave to check out Tulane tomorrow. Next week is Univ of Rochester, and the week after is Case Western Reserve. She is so confused!</p>
<p>I wish we had known about Minnesota before. Sounds like it would have been a great option. She just doesn’t have the ban width at this point.</p>
<p>She has several good options but if you are seriously close to retirement and there’s any chance your D might want to go to grad school, ASU Barrett seems like a no brainer. And I agree with sax about the weather in Rochester. It is really depressing a good part of the year.</p>
<p>When we were in upstate NY for other things, we drove thru Rochester, so we and the kids could get a feel for the area because S was thinking about colleges. When he saw the huge snow fences and tall snow poles, he finally admitted to himself that he is more of an urban, warm weather kid. He did not apply to any NY colleges. He also hadn’t really realized just how rural some of the Us were. He considered Rochester much more rural than he was used to. He ended up attending USoCal and now lives near DC (colder but not much snow and urban).</p>
<p>I have 2 sons at UR - one graduating this May (Yay!). They are both math majors but have friends in the physics program, which is a great program. After 4 years of having a kid at UR, I can honestly say it has been a fantastic college experience for both of them. All the hype about how easy it is to get to know your professors and to get involved working as a TA, lab assistant, or getting involved in research is true. They know professors by their first name, have been to their houses, have gotten very personal letters of recommendation from them when needed. And they’ve had minimal redtape issues like getting locked out of classes, changing schedules, the drop /add period is 4 weeks long so shopping classes is easy, the deadline to declare pass /fail is very late, etc. Tuition remains the same even if you over load on classes, and is fairly easy to double major. </p>
<p>And i think river campus students can take courses and lessons at Eastman. </p>
<p>And if your daughter is a NMF, she should be getting the $19,000 NMF scholarship, right? Or did that change this year? </p>
<p>All that being said, I would have a hard time spending $50,000 a year instead of $10,000 unless I had enough money that it really didn’t matter much to me. That money stuff is a personal choice for your family, so I won’t weigh in on that other than to say I think a smart enthusiastic student can get a wonderful education and great experiences at just about any school. Good luck - I hope the decision becomes easier one she’s spent more time visiting! </p>
<p>I will recommend that she email professors before her visits and try to meet with them and with current students one on one - don’t just do the organized visit activities. </p>
<p>Be sure to check the opportunities to participate at Eastman when you visit. I am just going on second hand info, but a friend has a D who was interested in UR and wanted to do voice/theater and Eastman and found it less easy than JHU where she is currently attending. </p>
<p>I have a D at Case and I know there are opportunities to do music there, but again check the details. The merit at Case needed a 2.0 GPA which was a lot better than other schools where the requirement was a 3.2? She originally applied to Case after hearing its similarities to UR, I agreed with this assessment, I think she would have picked UR if their merit was better. She was also accepted to Tulane but we didn’t visit.</p>
<p>D just got back from Tulane. She loved it there. They did a great job of wooing her: a meeting with a physics prof, meeting with a music prof, etc. Next week is CWR. I am still leaning towards Barrett. She does not know if she wants physics/computer science or music. At Barrett, we could afford to pay for a 5th year if she decided she wanted music after all. This is a kid who plays piano more than an hour a day, improvising. Has been doing this since grade school. She is worried she cannot make it in music, and is equally interested in science. She decided not to go the audition route because performance is not her strength. Composition is.</p>
<p>When you say that your dd is a science and music kid, is she also a math kid? Physics majors will normally end up with the equivalent of at least a minor in math bc there is so much math required. Doubling in math or electrical engineering is not uncommon bc there is so much overlap.</p>
<p>Since she doesn’t feel like she knows for certain what she wants to pursue, I thought I’d mention it in case she really hasn’t thought about it that much.</p>
<p>Good luck in her decisions. My ds has already made a similar decision. He was offered enough at Case to cover more than 1/2 of COA, similar scholarships at a few others, full pay at GA Tech, and close to full-ride at a lower ranked school but was accepted into one of their specialized honors research programs. He chose the lower ranked school with honors research. But, finances are a huge deciding factor for us. </p>